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Old 08-28-2014, 14:37   #161
Mayhem like Me
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
No. In general to the LEO group that thinks their badge & a little training makes the expert with a gun. One of you trained/skilled guys want to explain this mess?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/27/showbi...r-shot-killed/
How about we wait till all forensics are in.

Could be the cameraman walking into a field of fire.

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Old 08-29-2014, 06:55   #162
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1 more time. Unless you've been hit in the head hard enough to fracture your orbital, you have absolutely no idea. Your eye swells shut in literally seconds, it even affects the vision in your other eye most of the time. It rattles your brain and you cant think straight for several seconds or longer.

I wouldn't expect perfect COM hits form a veteran war fighter after being hit in the head that hard. MMQBing this in the way some of you guys are is ridiculous. I've never been in a fire fight, but I've been in enough fights to know some of you just need to back off. This is getting stupid....
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Old 08-30-2014, 13:49   #163
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Fred, you were asked multiple times during this discussion to validate your thoughts and opinions. To sit there and make a blanket statement about cops and their shooting ability is downright asinine. Once again, shooting paper on a ten yard line and high fiving your buddies does not make you a good shooter. It will make you an excellent target shooter and that's about it. Are there cops who are bad, mediocre, excellent target shooters? Yes, yes, and yes. They are now teaching stress indoctrination and shooting under stress in both academies and agency qualifications now in most departments, gone are the days of standing and punching holes in paper. Our agency shoots the required twenty five round course required by OPOTA. We then utilize a training course that includes transitioning from rifle to pistol on the move, reloading on the move, working through misfires (using snap caps), dummy drags and basic first aid on said dummies (applying a CAT tourniquet and performing chest compressions). All of this is going on with multiple sirens going on and a bunch of other officers yelling from a distance. All meant to prepare yourself for the stress of an active shooter incident (or even a regular shooting incident, since all of the ones I've been to were a cluster, the last one came out over the radio as a large fight, ended up being two shot, but you know how that goes right?) and to prepare, prepare, prepare! Nobody rises to the occasion, you default to your level of training. We also do another 40-80 hours of training on our own every year. That's one to two weeks of training on top of our 2080 hour work year, not including court time, OT, side jobs, traffic details...but you understand that, right? Plenty of cops shoot on their own. Two on my PD are avid competition shooters and run their own CCW certification business. See that? Two cops helping other members of the community obtain their CCW license, whodathunkit? Before you spew that crap onto a keyboard, know what you're talking about, please.
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Last edited by Ohio Copper; 08-30-2014 at 13:49..
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Old 08-30-2014, 13:50   #164
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Wasn't a run on when I typed it and I don't know why it won't edit properly on this PC. My apologies.
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Old 08-30-2014, 15:39   #165
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We also do another 40-80 hours of training on our own every year. That's one to two weeks of training on top of our 2080 hour work year, not including court time, OT, side jobs, traffic details...but you understand that, right? Plenty of cops shoot on their own. Two on my PD are avid competition shooters and run their own CCW certification business. See that? Two cops helping other members of the community obtain their CCW license, whodathunkit? Before you spew that crap onto a keyboard, know what you're talking about, please.
Well since you aren't arresting me, I don't have to validate crap to you. You are now making blanket statements about all Leo & how they practice train, based on what you do, just not he case for all. I shoot with enough guys from depts all over SoCal to know otherwise. Yes some are very good, some even better than good, but most, barely competent. As noted, you sound swat or what ever your team is, that puts you an entire level above the avg line officer, & if you are being honest, you know that. You can get your panties all in a wad but what have I said that just is so wrong? Your opinion, I have mine, both based on exp & observation, just don't let your ego over ride your ability as many do that find themselves in the deep end.
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Old 08-30-2014, 15:53   #166
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Nope.

Patrol officer. Afternoon and midnight turn. Medium sized agency adjacent to a very large, urban city.

Again, you claim experience, what experience?!?


I'm telling you that I train with multiple agencies in my county, we share the use of a range and we all train together.

You pick and choose what to respond to, how cute.

If you even graduated an academy, you certainly didn't make it through field training. How heavy does that chip on your shoulder get?
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Old 08-30-2014, 15:58   #167
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Well how could you miss at 8ft?
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That's a litte harsh. There are a lot of good cops out there. It's a govt job though, so there are also a lot of guys/gals just collecting checks & waiting for retirement. Some in my own family & circle of friends.
You have never been an active law enforcement officer, ever.
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Old 08-30-2014, 16:00   #168
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Please, spare me. I am sure th fatal head shot was accidental. Any honest Leo will tell you the avg leo is a poor shooter. If you only shoot your quals, you will never be any better than competent. I shoot with enough Leo every week to know.
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So the Leo got lucky & you want to call that adequate? 5 of the six wounds were survivable. The head shoot was likely an accident as the Vic fell forward on his face. Not cop bashing but really, Leo's are rarely more than adequate shooters, what ever that is.
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
None, but I have trained with & trained Leo. I would expect accuracy to improve as the target gets closer. Don't get your panties in a wad. My pop was Leo, I have many friends that are, but facts, most Leo are poor to mediocre shots, just enough to qualify in most instances.
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Not at all, most is an accurate brush stroke. Maybe 15-20% of leo even practice? If you think you can maintain a degrading skill by shooting just 2-4x a year, well I wish you luck if you ever step in the poo.
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I am not trying to Mmqb, Leo's always get their panties in a wad when some simple truths are pointed out. Not knowing all the facts, I can't really say he did just fine, neither can anyone else.
Who do you train and what credentials do you hold to train those officers?
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Old 08-30-2014, 16:18   #169
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Fred, you really should stop now. You're looking foolish without a purpose.
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Old 08-30-2014, 18:00   #170
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Guys, you need to just ignore Fred. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink; you can lead a jackass to reason, but you can't make him think.
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Old 08-30-2014, 19:43   #171
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Old 08-30-2014, 22:27   #172
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I retired in the early 90's.

At the time they were just beginning to introduce some stress other than time limits to our qualifications. Just doing some pushups and running around the range to get your heartrate elevated was enough to make formerly easy shots quite difficult.

Being in a struggle for your gun with a 300lb monster and getting your clock cleaned takes things to a whole new level.

Give it a rest Fred.

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