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Old 08-06-2014, 09:27   #1
Marcus Unrealious
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Arguing with Idiots or What Happened To The Rule of Law

I have watched GT and other forums for some time and have noticed a very disturbing trend. People have become intolerant of opposing views.

More importantly, I see the nation starting to turn from a Nation of Laws to a Nation of Men. The rules and legalities seem to matter less and less as people want to migrate to a system of popular opinion.

Some examples of these are:

Zimmerman Trial
Venture Litigation
Immigration Enforcement
Gaza

It seems society as a whole is too lazy to implement changes in law, they just want to whine and argue about how the court of public opinion should work. The folks involved with this will not engage enough to affect direct change, they simply argue endlessly or worse, ignore law. Often this is done while overlooking a legal basis or an incorrect set of assumptions as they cast one party in the shadows of another.

All the while the fact is that laws stand, but some people are foolish enough to see them as non-binding.

To what extent will this go? At what point will society simply fail to respect others rights and "do what thou wilt"? This is just another step towards mob mentality and mob rule. And if it is, why are we at this point? What compels people to argue such petty issues and obfuscate law in an effort to make their voice heard?

Folks, I posit that those of you arguing endlessly about petty things should attempt to come together on issues that are of relevance to our nation. Division is killing our nation. Think about the time spent arguing about Chris Kyle, and how those energies could be channeled into efforts such as writing Congress about your immigration views, pro or con. Or perhaps working to lift up a fellow man rather than drag them down with name calling and casting dispersion's.

Has America fallen so low that all we can do is bicker among ourselves and lose track of what is really important?
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:30   #2
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What is important is crushing your enemies, hearing the Lamentations...


Because the enemy will do it to us if we nap.
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:34   #3
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Are you new to the internets?
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:47   #4
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Originally Posted by Marcus Unrealious View Post
More importantly, I see the nation starting to turn from a Nation of Laws to a Nation of Men. The rules and legalities seem to matter less and less as people want to migrate to a system of popular opinion.
I'm shocked that you think this is a new development.

Quote:
Some examples of these are:

Zimmerman Trial
Venture Litigation
Immigration Enforcement
Gaza
Some historical examples are:

Widespread lynching
Immigration Enforcement
Use of gun control legislation to disarm only blacks

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To what extent will this go? At what point will society simply fail to respect others rights and "do what thou wilt"?
Well, it's gone as far as riots and hanging people from lampposts quite a few times in the past.

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This is just another step towards mob mentality and mob rule. And if it is, why are we at this point?
Because people are idiots.
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:56   #5
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Oxbow Incident.
About mob mentality.



Or go back 5,000 years.
Same stuff DD.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:00   #6
Marcus Unrealious
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I'm shocked that you think this is a new development.


Because people are idiots.

Hey DD!

Its not that its a new trend, it is accelerating quickly however.

We as a nation worked hard to eliminate mob rule. But look around at the new wave of divisions being laid out. Administrations, both municipal and otherwise sidestepping the laws, officers in no win situations where use of force is common, demonstrations that are not peaceful, becoming more fervent and impassioned.

No, its not new but now it feels different. Its a little more edgy then the past decade.

And yes, people can be idiots. Thats why I think we shouldn't argue with them.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:01   #7
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What is important is crushing your enemies, hearing the Lamentations...


Because the enemy will do it to us if we nap.


so your saying a preemptive attack is necessary?!
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:03   #8
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Are you new to the internets?

No sir, not at all. But the attitude of many seems to be developing into more aggressive stances.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:05   #9
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I think the issue isn't that the lack of tolerance is expanding, but that we now know more about it. Nothing major happens without being on the internet within 5 minutes. Unless the offender uses Chris Kyle's secret SEAL phone number, that is.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:06   #10
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Clearly Stallone's fault.

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Old 08-06-2014, 10:06   #11
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Originally Posted by Marcus Unrealious View Post
Hey DD!
Hiya.

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Its not that its a new trend, it is accelerating quickly however.
I really don't think so. I think that interpretation is blind to history.

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We as a nation worked hard to eliminate mob rule.
When? During the Red Scare? Peoples' lives were destroyed if someone even suspected that they might be Communists. It's hard to argue that HUAAC was anything other than mob rule. Emmet Till was murdered in 1955 and his killers walked free, despite overwhelming evidence that they were guilty. How is that anything other than "mob rule"?
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:08   #12
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I think the issue isn't that the lack of tolerance is expanding, but that we now know more about it. Nothing major happens without being on the internet within 5 minutes. Unless the offender uses Chris Kyle's secret SEAL phone number, that is.


Thats very true, SC. But somehow it feels like it is different now, more lawless. Maybe you disagree.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:10   #13
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Hiya.



I really don't think so. I think that interpretation is blind to history.



When? During the Red Scare? Peoples' lives were destroyed if someone even suspected that they might be Communists. It's hard to argue that HUAAC was anything other than mob rule. Emmet Till was murdered in 1955 and his killers walked free, despite overwhelming evidence that they were guilty. How is that anything other than "mob rule"?
Your correct in that assertion, but look at the blacklist forming in Hollywood about gaza. Same situation. But people seem more virulent, more head clashing. And I am not contrasting this over a length of history, but rather over the past decade or two.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:14   #14
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I think the issue isn't that the lack of tolerance is expanding, but that we now know more about it. Nothing major happens without being on the internet within 5 minutes. Unless the offender uses Chris Kyle's secret SEAL phone number, that is.
This. People have always been intolerant opinionated closed-minded rhetoric shouters. Human nature doesn't change, but technology does. People used to have to wait until 6 pm or so to find out what broad social trends Bill O'Reilly says to get offended and outraged about next, but now you can just go online anytime.

Or to the General BS section of a gunboard.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:24   #15
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Or to the General BS section of a gunboard.
I am going to ^&%()*& &^% disagree with you on that.....

Actually, watching around us it seems to be shorter tempered, a easier to flash up. Look at the Bundy ranch conflict. Citizens turning on the law enforcement. Of the immigrant busing, and the protests blocking roads. Of the Palestinian protests in DC.

I know that this has been going on for eons. But I maintain that this is somehow different...
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:30   #16
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Everything is political ( With Far Left & Left & even middle of the Road Democrats ) so why not join in the fight, after all a huge midterm election looms on the horizon...

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Old 08-06-2014, 10:41   #17
Marcus Unrealious
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Everything is political ( With Far Left & Left & even middle of the Road Democrats ) so why not join in the fight, after all a huge midterm election looms on the horizon...
OK, let me ask this. I can understand your view, but do you think you will change one of them to an alternate view? Would the effort not be better spent locating and motivating those with the similar view to act out on the election process?

Thats kind of my point. You will not change their views, so why waste the energy?
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:47   #18
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I see the nation starting to turn from a Nation of Laws to a Nation of Men. The rules and legalities seem to matter less and less as people want to migrate to a system of popular opinion.

Has America fallen so low that all we can do is bicker among ourselves and lose track of what is really important?

Reminds me of this quote that my brother has memorized and will often recite after a couple of bourbons.

It is the referral to "baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men" that worries me at times .... whether its on a gun board or in my town politics or even just on the front sidewalk.

" A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious.
But it cannot survive treason from within. an enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not traitor, he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist, A murderer is less to be feared."

Marcus Tullius Cicero
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:47   #19
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...Thats kind of my point. You will not change their views, so why waste the energy?

That's exactly what the men thought right before Lexington & Concord.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:55   #20
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We have an entire political party devoted to doing just what op is complaining of. The Dems of today would make Joseph Goebbels proud.

When youre out of facts, turn to the law.
If the law is against you, yell loudly.
And try and change the courts with partisan political activists.
Failing that, turn to another court. Like the court of public opinion.

Dont have your opponent on the facts, attack him personally. Dont have anything to attack him on, call Larry flynt and see if something can be dug up. He must have molested a girl scout at some point...or boy scout.

No? Make the accusation anyway. Even if its false, he ll have to deny it. Some people will wrongly assume he must have done it anyway. It sure was repeated a lot so must be true anyway. Right?

Even if absolutely proven innocent, some people wont get the memo. But they will vote again at some point.

Change something your opponent said to something he didnt say, then attack that. Happens here at GT all the time.

Doesnt matter that what the opponent who was attacked stood for has nothing to do with the attack being made. Guilt by association and the big lie will do the dirty work. The Dems are professionals at this.

On a regular basis, i hear the prez-o-dent get up in front of a microphone and bald face lie. I mean demonstrable, cut from whole cloth lie. Not even subject to debate, im talking against hard facts and the record.

"We tried it their way and it didnt work!"

Wrong *** hole. It did work. He was referring to Reagan era economics which were wildly sucessful. Thats just one example.

He ll even get up and call himself a liar. The IRS accusations are serious he told us. Couple of weeks later its a phoney scandal. So are all the other things that have his fingerprints all over them.
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