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Old 03-01-2014, 11:16   #21
Sgt. Rambo
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The Ruskies are recalling their Ambassador from D.C. I can't imagine that is a good thing. Don't hear much coming out of the EU about standing up to this. As always... it should be interesting.
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:42   #22
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The Ruskies are recalling their Ambassador from D.C. I can't imagine that is a good thing. Don't hear much coming out of the EU about standing up to this. As always... it should be interesting.
I'm still baffled by the troops without insignias. We've done that before, along with other nations...on very low-key missions with very few personnel. However why try to pretend with a swarm of helicopters and truckloads of troops?
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:44   #23
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Watching the people getting sniped .... maybe they should have moved to a different location after the first few were hit. Also too clustered.

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Old 03-01-2014, 13:24   #24
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Originally Posted by jdavionic View Post
I'm still baffled by the troops without insignias.
Troops without insignias. ...can do very bad things without repercussions!


A bunch of civilians get sniped..

..real easy to say it was rebels, insurgents (fill-in-the-blank)!


The Ukrainians suffered greatly under Soviet rule..

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

..hopefully this armed incursion into their sovereign territory will be quickly routed.


But considering the POTUS we currently have..

..simply an invitation for aggressive behavior. ..IMO!

http://www.tpnn.com/2014/02/28/guess...nvade-ukraine/
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Old 03-01-2014, 18:26   #25
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Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
You know - while I do not necessarily agree with that, it does seem very reasonable. I could personally have a LOT of firepower in my hands under those rules. I could apparently have three very sporty hunting rifles, 5 Semi auto's, and a couple of shotguns. All in my alarmed safe. And, with enough creativity, I could own a few handguns in effective common calibers. And even possibly have a CCW...

Comment: I DO NOT believe in rights per se. Let's be honest - no one here actually wants a Schizophrenic to have a gun. No one thinks a kid who has assaulted 20 people before he was 18 should have a gun. At least that's my thought. Those are examples of people who just demonstrated that they are clearly a greater danger to everyone else than they are in danger.

For the record, I think this could easily apply to SUV ownership as well.

And the 'They will take the guns" if they know you have them is a weak argument. Great statistic: In PA during dear season there are more than 1,000,000 hunters with rather high powered rifles 30-06 and up, the first weekend. Every US military member on the ground in PA could not stop them if they turned those rifles in one direction and they could collect 10% of them before the other 90% got turned in that direction.

Back to lessons learned.

#4 If you live in an area where tear gas use is rampant, having the gas mask might move up the list. That said - being in a gas use environment is a bad idea.

....

Reasonable? Not to me. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, its just that these people have been through tough times before. For example look up "Ukrainian starvation genocide". In His book, survivor Miron Dolot ,"Execution by Hunger" mentions several times that " we could not do X as firearms has long since been registered and collected".
This allowed a motivated, left wing minority to starve and kill a much larger population. This should be sounding uncomfortably familar.

What Americans should learn from this is to NEVER give an inch of freedom, no matter how "reasoanble" it sounds. We have already given up far too much...but most have been programmed to think it 'unreasonable" or "extreme" to demand freedoms be recognoized by a government that stole them over 100 years ago, then dumbed the population down to the point where most would not notice. Furthermore, they then associate such beleifs and movements with ignorance and/or radicalism, or mental illness.

Anyone remember Allodial titles to land?
Fully informed juries? jury nullification?
Ordering an MG through the mail from Sears?
Bearing personal self defense weapons without thinking one needs a Permit?

Gas masks and the like should be a pretty much standard item, especially on beans and weenies nights.
In working in OC/CS gas, i can tell you i much prefer to have a mask than not. Its survivable, but i can get more done faster when i can breathe.
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Old 03-01-2014, 20:15   #26
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....

Reasonable? Not to me. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, its just that these people have been through tough times before. For example look up "Ukrainian starvation genocide". In His book, survivor Miron Dolot ,"Execution by Hunger" mentions several times that " we could not do X as firearms has long since been registered and collected".
This allowed a motivated, left wing minority to starve and kill a much larger population. This should be sounding uncomfortably familar.

What Americans should learn from this is to NEVER give an inch of freedom, no matter how "reasoanble" it sounds. We have already given up far too much...but most have been programmed to think it 'unreasonable" or "extreme" to demand freedoms be recognoized by a government that stole them over 100 years ago, then dumbed the population down to the point where most would not notice. Furthermore, they then associate such beleifs and movements with ignorance and/or radicalism, or mental illness.

+1


A psychopath with the power of a gun may murder 20 unarmed people in a gun-free zone..

..a psychopath in power vs an unarmed populace may murder 20 MILLION!!


Choose your poison. .

..but "death by government" in the last century alone killed hundreds of millions..

..starvation, torture, firing squad, babies cut from their mother's wombs, etc...

..Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, the list goes on & on!

All of the random violent acts of armed psychopaths combined in the last century is miniscule..

..compared to the sea of blood & mountains of bodies of the disarmed victims by psychopaths wielding political power!


YMMV
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Old 03-01-2014, 22:48   #27
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^Outstanding post, I wish more cared.
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Old 03-01-2014, 23:16   #28
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+1


A psychopath with the power of a gun may murder 20 unarmed people in a gun-free zone..

..a psychopath in power vs an unarmed populace may murder 20 MILLION!!


Choose your poison. .

..but "death by government" in the last century alone killed hundreds of millions..

..starvation, torture, firing squad, babies cut from their mother's wombs, etc...

..Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, the list goes on & on!

All of the random violent acts of armed psychopaths combined in the last century is miniscule..

..compared to the sea of blood & mountains of bodies of the disarmed victims by psychopaths wielding political power!


YMMV
Well put. Too many people want to take a narrow view in order protect against the extreme while history shows us that "common sense" "reasonable" measures wind up with a far higher mortality rate.
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Old 03-02-2014, 00:16   #29
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Lesson:
Don't ever trust the f$%#ing Russians.
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Old 03-02-2014, 00:17   #30
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:33   #31
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Lesson:
Don't ever trust a f$%#ing government.
Fixed it for you
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:36   #32
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Well put. Too many people want to take a narrow view in order protect against the extreme while history shows us that "common sense" "reasonable" measures wind up with a far higher mortality rate.

Yep....Aceman's post quoted below is the nexus of the logic of my reply...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceman View Post

Comment: I DO NOT believe in rights per se. Let's be honest - no one here actually wants a Schizophrenic to have a gun.
..but my reply mirrors a firmly held belief of mine held since I was young.

Another very simple argument when faced with those who are confused by the relationship of our Government & the RTKBA.
Our government does not "grant basic civil rights", but instead was established to protect god-given rights. Since citizens of the colonies freely bore arms prior to the establishment of our government. ..how possibly then could the government "give" anyone that right.

To use the random acts of psychopaths to restrict the RTKBA to the point of being ineffectual..

( against the random psychopath.....much less the much more deadly political ones)

..would have been akin to restricting the smallpox vaccine because of side effects in a very small subset of the population..

..condemning millions upon millions...generation after generation to death.


A simple tour of history throughout the world time-after-time demonstrates the horror of wholesale carnage when citizens are stripped of their ability to protect themselves by/from their governments..

..and this was wisely understood & addressed by our Founding Fathers..

..but still some here would freely throw our rights away in the false belief it would give them a little security!

Quote:
Benjamin Franklin — 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.'
Quote:
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

Thomas Jefferson


YMMV




Regardless....pray for those in the Ukraine. .

http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.ht...3222_pageNum_1

..the events unfolding have the potential to spread far beyond the Crimea!
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:13   #33
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When china sides with russia (maybe soon, maybe not), that's when I plan to get seriously concerned.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:33   #34
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When china sides with russia (maybe soon, maybe not), that's when I plan to get seriously concerned.

Clinton set the stage for that alliance. ..IMO

..Obama is simply cementing the relationship... .again IMHO. .


My concern is China will end up being the Pacific Rim Superpower..

..and Russia the same over the European Theater.


IMO....The stage is set....

..the only question is...

..what horrors will manifest once the curtain finally rises!


A CONUS HEMP would be a most effective preamble...IMO!
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:41   #35
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When china sides with russia (maybe soon, maybe not), that's when I plan to get seriously concerned.
If they really wanted to, they could coordinate Russia conquering Europe (minus the UK) while China simultaneously conquers Japan and SE Asia (minus S Korea and Taiwan).
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:44   #36
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lesson learned; elections have consequences.
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Old 03-02-2014, 21:32   #37
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China is not going to side with anyone but China.

Anymore, I do not believe elections have significant consequences. The difference between a crap sandwich with ketchup vs one with mustard isn't much. Local - that's a very different story…

Just to be clear: I'm willing to risk a Schizo w/ a gun vs the rest without them. Vaccine is good analogy. Yep - someone is gonna react badly….but the vast majority will not only be fine, but be stronger.

Death by Government. Interesting….And agreed - the first system is disarm.

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Old 03-03-2014, 00:10   #38
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Quote:
When china sides with russia (maybe soon, maybe not), that's when I plan to get seriously concerned.
Actually, China has agreements in place with Russia right now.

http://www.idsa.in/issuebrief/ChinaR..._msingh_180413
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:52   #39
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If you are going to revolt and overthrow the government, don't be surprised by unintended aftermath.


If you are going to revolt and overthrow the government, make sure your side wins.

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Old 03-03-2014, 08:42   #40
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China is not going to side with anyone but China...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris View Post
Actually, China has agreements in place with Russia right now...
Yep; both true. What China does, they do for their own self-interest; which is frankly logical & even commendable in a government. China has had official semi-cordial relations with russia, largely for geographic & anti-west reasonings imo, for a good while now. But when they get actively in russian direct-actions, that's when my ears will perk up quickest.

If/when I see russian & china together taking joint or parallel actions in the middle east, that's when I'm cranking up the backhoe.
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