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Old 11-04-2013, 09:34   #41
Pier23
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
It's a pretty ignorant position to lump free people in with those who have surrendered their Rights or are incompetant.
The issue raised here is the "shall not be infringed" clause. Taken literally, the convicted and the mentally impaired would have unfettered access to weapons.

Since even this place generally thinks that is a bad idea, then "infringement" is accepted and embraced by society and the courts.

So now we are debating not IF infringement should occur, but under what conditions and to what extent that infringement occurs. This is an entirely different discussion.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:39   #42
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Originally Posted by bdcremer View Post
There is as much ignorance in the pro-gun community as the anti-gun community. They do have different flavored of ignorance but it's still there. The pro-2nd amendment crowd is its biggest problem.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:56   #43
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Yeah sure
I'm sure commandos here weren't around to all the iterations again gun control: almost no gun controls Which had almost all firearms use for sporting hunting and then HD. Limited gun control where black rifles showed up and crazies started to show. Then a s load of gun control laws filled with a s load of blackrifles and way more crazies.if you,be been around since the 60's you've seen gun tailored less to the live off the land types.and a lot more of the militarization of Guns And their owners.


Guys like Metcalf carry a message the neutral position on gun ownership. His message appeals to many. Note: With out he people that see value in guns but are disturbed by gun violence, we lose. We want them.

In such, welcome the plurality of pro-gun opinions, otherwise, we all lose.
You're right, it's all the fault of black rifles. Did you ever hear of Charles Whitman? A sniper who killed 13 people and wounded many more with bolt and pump action "sporting" rifles. Do you think todays mass killers could be equally effective with a couple of sawed off shotguns or 6 revolvers? Glad to see who here is on the other side. Metcalf can suck it.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:58   #44
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Originally Posted by Pier23 View Post
I am going to guess that you are against concealed carry, open carry, semi-automatics weapons, and for mandatory licensing, registration, 10 round magazines and smart guns.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:10   #45
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Originally Posted by shooterinpa View Post
Barack, is that you??????

Effing pathetic to read that on a gun site.
The 5th column is alive and well on every gun board. Why are you surprised?
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:16   #46
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Here you go, on compromises and reasonable regulations.
http://hsgca.net/2013/10/21/illustra...o-gun-control/
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NRA Lifer, GOA Lifer, SAF Lifer
Commie libs, criminals, and sheeple love gun control. It's easier to blame inanimate objects than the killers themselves.
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Politicians and judges who voted for, and supported, Obamacare are traitors to the country!
Con, the first 3 letters in Congress.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:34   #47
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Here you go, on compromises and reasonable regulations.
http://hsgca.net/2013/10/21/illustra...o-gun-control/
It left out Reagan's acceptance and signature on legislation effectively banning "unregistered" full auto's by civilians after 86.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:41   #48
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I won't argue the second amendment regulation because I know where that will go but about this first amendment thing and no regulation there.

Does your state allow you to threaten to kill someone?

Does your state allow you to challenge another person to fight?

Does your state allow you to blast your stereo as loud as you want?

When you say "legally responsible" do you mean criminal or civil or both?
Yes, my state law allows me to threaten to kill someone.

Yes, my state law allows me to challenge another person to a fight.

Yes, my state law allows me to blast my stereo as loud as I want.

Laws do not ban behavior. They simply define activities that constitute crimes and create penalties for engaging in behavior.

For example, the IL UUW statute does not say "you will not unlawfully possession a firearm." It defines UUW and tells you when you are committing it. It then defines penalties.

The law is not active. It is reactive.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:47   #49
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I am a steadfast supporter of the "reasonable regulation" of every Constitutionally guaranteed divine right. HOWEVER, it is rare that politicians on either side of the aisle engage in reasonable discussions about anything, much less the Bill of Rights. One man's "reasonable" is another man's injustice.

In theory, guaranteeing that gun-owning citizens have a certain degree of education/familiarization with firearms isn't a bad idea. I mean, my buddy just did a concealed carry class with people who had never picked up a pistol before it was time to shoot the trainer's rental at the qualification.

In practice, I agree that the gun-control lobby's position does not support my definition of "reasonable" and, at best, is more supportive of an incrementalist strategy toward a long-term firearms ban. Because of this, I will not support 99.999% of their agenda.

I think most logical people agree that those with recent criminal convictions or mental health issues should probably be excluded from firearm ownership. And I think most logical people would conclude that background checks are a solid way of identifying and excluding the aforementioned people when properly conducted. But the partisan polarization of the gun-control lobby's attitude on background checks forces gun owners to be zealots themselves, when common-sense approaches might have been supported.

A polarized political platform does not benefit anybody.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:48   #50
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Originally Posted by volsbear View Post
Yes, my state law allows me to threaten to kill someone.

Yes, my state law allows me to challenge another person to a fight.

Yes, my state law allows me to blast my stereo as loud as I want.

Laws do not ban behavior. They simply define activities that constitute crimes and create penalties for engaging in behavior.

For example, the IL UUW statute does not say "you will not unlawfully possession a firearm." It defines UUW and tells you when you are committing it. It then defines penalties.

The law is not active. It is reactive.
So receive no punishments for those actions?

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Old 11-04-2013, 11:49   #51
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Originally Posted by volsbear View Post
Yes, my state law allows me to threaten to kill someone.

Yes, my state law allows me to challenge another person to a fight.

Yes, my state law allows me to blast my stereo as loud as I want.

Laws do not ban behavior. They simply define activities that constitute crimes and create penalties for engaging in behavior.

For example, the IL UUW statute does not say "you will not unlawfully possession a firearm." It defines UUW and tells you when you are committing it. It then defines penalties.

The law is not active. It is reactive.
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Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
So receive no punishments for those actions?

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Clean your glasses, bro!
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:52   #52
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Originally Posted by Cambo View Post
You're right, it's all the fault of black rifles. Did you ever hear of Charles Whitman? A sniper who killed 13 people and wounded many more with bolt and pump action "sporting" rifles. Do you think todays mass killers could be equally effective with a couple of sawed off shotguns or 6 revolvers? Glad to see who here is on the other side. Metcalf can suck it.
Actually he did most of his killing early on with a bolt action because he had the element of surprise but then once everyone went to cover he started with an M1 Carbine. It has been awhile since I read the book but I do believe he killed a few with the carbine.

Also I do not think it was any accident that the GCA of 1968 came about just two years later. Of course RFK and MLK had something to do with it too.

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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:59   #53
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Actually he did most of his killing early on with a bolt action because he had the element of surprise but then once everyone went to cover he started with an M1 Carbine. It has been awhile since I read the book but I do believe he killed a few with the carbine.

Also I do not think it was any accident that the GCA of 1968 came about just two years later. Of course RFK and MLK had something to do with it too.

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With all due respect, I am not sure he used the M1 at those ranges. He might have used it when the police stormed the tower however.
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Old 11-04-2013, 14:00   #54
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With all due respect, I am not sure he used the M1 at those ranges. He might have used it when the police stormed the tower however.
He didn't use it against the police. They pretty much shot him on sight. He at least used the carbine to increase his rate of fire to keep the police at bay. I just can't remember him shooting anyone with it but he may have. It has been a decade since I read the book on it and it isn't clear on the internet.

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Old 11-04-2013, 14:03   #55
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Originally Posted by norton View Post
Too many gun mag writers are old men, who are set in their ways. The industry needs fresh blood with new ideas. too bad the magazine industry in general is going the way of the doo doo bird.
I believe Metcalf is from IL, which explains a lot.
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Old 11-04-2013, 14:14   #56
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I believe Metcalf is from IL, which explains a lot.
Don't that on us. He moved here when the magazine moved to Peoria IL. We love or guns. That includes democrats and republicans. Its only the morons in Chicago that hate freedom.

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Old 11-04-2013, 14:15   #57
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Originally Posted by shooterinpa View Post
Barack, is that you??????

Effing pathetic to read that on a gun site.
Ahhh...just the type of enlightened feedback that I appreciate. Thank you for taking the time to post an insightful commentary.
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Old 11-04-2013, 14:50   #58
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Too many gun mag writers are old men, who are set in their ways. The industry needs fresh blood with new ideas. too bad the magazine industry in general is going the way of the doo doo bird.
My sentiments exactly.
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Old 11-04-2013, 15:17   #59
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Originally Posted by volsbear View Post
In theory, guaranteeing that gun-owning citizens have a certain degree of education/familiarization with firearms isn't a bad idea. I mean, my buddy just did a concealed carry class with people who had never picked up a pistol before it was time to shoot the trainer's rental at the qualification.

A polarized political platform does not benefit anybody.
So your buddy just attended a CC class with people who never picked up a pistol before......
Did it ever occur to you or your buddy, that these people were taking their first step in learning gun safety by attending a class?
I'm glad when I go to a range and see first time shooters. If they look receptive about new information I might offer help. But the fact they are there trying to learn is great. I'm glad they were able to buy a gun and take the time to go to a range and learn to shoot it.

Who do you suggest we put in charge of deciding how much training we need to lawfully own a gun? Maybe a college course? Sarah Brady?

How many trigger locks have you been forced to purchase for all the guns you keep in your safe? Or in a house where you live alone, and want to have a weapon handy?
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Old 11-04-2013, 16:55   #60
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