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Old 11-01-2013, 07:22   #26
RussP
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You do not want to defend your idea because nobody likes you? That's your reason?
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
I don't want to disclose my idea. Defending it would come after disclosure, and that would be part of the inconvenience.
It is an inconvenience, disclosing your tactic for going into a hazardous environment to treat a victim and exiting with that patient.

As long as you are not answering, does your plan address being on foot or in your vehicle to get to the victim?
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You do not want to defend your idea because nobody likes you? That's your reason?
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
I'm not going to eat a worm anytime soon, I have found a few friends here. I do know that you don't like me though; I think you would burn me right to the ground if you could, and you are the only one pressing the issue trying to get me to disclose my "tactic". It aint happening.
I don't like you? Is that important to you? I don't like what you say. More than that, you don't tell why you say what you do about law enforcement?

Is it the typical cop vs hose monkey thing? Sorry, Firefighter vs Pig thing? Firefighter exposing rotten cops thing? What's your beef with cops? Remember, you're in Civil Liberties Issues. You can speak your mind here. It's why the forum is here. If your reason is because someone here on GT hurt your feelings, which you've already mentioned, you can find sympathy in the dictionary between...you know the rest of that. What in the real world has you pissed off at cops.

Nice fire analogy there, burn you to the ground. You don't need me for that.
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It's okay, in this hostile environment, for you to equate LE to Nazi soldiers gassing Jews, and defend that outrageous statement, but you are afraid to talk about an ingress/egress plan because of the hostile environment.

You have no qualms bashing cops in this hostile environment, equating them to Nazis...
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
Yup. Its okay. I would go on the 6 o'clock news with anything I have said in this thread. I made an extreme comparison, to demonstrate the absurdity of someone collecting $38,000 from L&I for the stress they went through because they pepper sprayed students that were sitting on the ground. I demonstrated absurdity by being absurd. I have no apologies to make.
See, you bring the fuel and strike the match...
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:23   #27
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
In that case I wish him a long and healthy retirement.

Good day.
Thank you.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:30   #28
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So you have an idea as opposed to tried and true tactics?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 4
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
If you read the thread carefully you will see that Russ referred to it as an "idea". In my response to Russ's post I referred to it as an "idea" as well.
Yes, but way before...well, here's the sequence.
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I wear a uniform too. If I had to go on an aid call to somebody who had chest pain or a tummy ache inside the "protest zone", I know exactly how I would get in and out- and I believe it would work even if I was a cop or a faculty member.
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I'm curious...how would that infallible ingress/egress plan work?
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I'm not going to talk about my tactics on an open forum like this, for the same reason that Glock talk cops don't want to discuss their tactics on an open forum.
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You compare the secrecy about your ingress/egress tactic to GT members secrecy about their tactics.
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I don't want to get bogged down into a discussion of what exactly I was referring to. The main reason I don't want to bring it up specifically, is because I don't want to have to defend it.
And then...
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You do not want to defend your idea ...
So, yeah, I guess I eventually called it an idea first.
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Old 11-01-2013, 21:35   #29
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Yes, but way before...well, here's the sequence.And then...So, yeah, I guess I eventually called it an idea first.
I'm embarrassed for us now. I'm not sure how the sequence from the beginning is relevant, but you called it an "idea" and in my follow up post I followed suit and called it an "idea".

I'm not even sure why this matters. Because TBO thinks it's important to make distinction between "idea" and "tried and true tactics"?
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Old 11-01-2013, 22:01   #30
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I don't like what you say. More than that, you don't tell why you say what you do about law enforcement?

Is it the typical cop vs hose monkey thing? What's your beef with cops? Remember, you're in Civil Liberties Issues. What in the real world has you pissed off at cops.

See, you bring the fuel and strike the match...
The truth is that I don't have a problem with cops in general. I have a problem with specific incidents occasionally that I read about. I have a problem with cops who taze a homeowner who is just trying to put out a fire, for example. I have a problem with cops who use tear gas that is known to start fires ( ie "burners" ) then feign surprise when the house they shoot the tear gas into catches fire.

So you don't like what I've said in this thread. OK. Its worthwhile to note, however, I'm the only one in this thread that actually offered opinion and commentary on the story linked by the OP. I'm the only one. All other comments are directed toward me for simply offering up my honest opinion.

Civil liberties is a fairly heavily moderated forum here at Glock talk (there are only...what?... four current topics?). TBO posts a link to a story about a cop who is awarded 38 K because of stress he endured after pepper spraying college kids (seems to me like a move designed to stir the pot, not that there's anything wrong with that), and you guys are acting shocked at my comments? What kind of dialogue did you think this story would generate here in civil liberties?

I have an idea. Rather than acting indignant and offended at the fact that I would speak about this in the irreverent fashion that I have , why don't you guys take the time to post your original thoughts and commentary about the OP's story? Share your thoughts, and show me where my thoughts have gone astray. Show me where I'm wrong in my thinking.
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Old 11-01-2013, 22:05   #31
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Maybe he'll accuse them of being Nazis.



It only took until the 3rd reply.
I love Godwin's law! Thanks for posting this, I feel like I've heard of it before but it was a long time ago. It sucks that I automatically lose the argument for having brought up the Nazi reference. I guess I'll just stick around to read everybody else's opinion on the op's story.
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Old 11-02-2013, 14:45   #32
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I'm embarrassed for us now. I'm not sure how the sequence from the beginning is relevant, but you called it an "idea" and in my follow up post I followed suit and called it an "idea".

I'm not even sure why this matters. Because TBO thinks it's important to make distinction between "idea" and "tried and true tactics"?
I spoon fed you what you needed to go back at TBO.
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Old 11-02-2013, 14:47   #33
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The truth is that I don't have a problem with cops in general. I have a problem with specific incidents occasionally that I read about. I have a problem with cops who taze a homeowner who is just trying to put out a fire, for example. I have a problem with cops who use tear gas that is known to start fires ( ie "burners" ) then feign surprise when the house they shoot the tear gas into catches fire.
Around here we like reading about the details behind incidents.

Do you have links to those events?
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Old 11-02-2013, 15:36   #34
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So you don't like what I've said in this thread. OK. Its worthwhile to note, however, I'm the only one in this thread that actually offered opinion and commentary on the story linked by the OP. I'm the only one. All other comments are directed toward me for simply offering up my honest opinion.

Civil liberties is a fairly heavily moderated forum here at Glock talk (there are only...what?... four current topics?). TBO posts a link to a story about a cop who is awarded 38 K because of stress he endured after pepper spraying college kids (seems to me like a move designed to stir the pot, not that there's anything wrong with that), and you guys are acting shocked at my comments? What kind of dialogue did you think this story would generate here in civil liberties?

I have an idea. Rather than acting indignant and offended at the fact that I would speak about this in the irreverent fashion that I have , why don't you guys take the time to post your original thoughts and commentary about the OP's story? Share your thoughts, and show me where my thoughts have gone astray. Show me where I'm wrong in my thinking.
You are the one who made the extraneous statements that changed the course of the discussion. Once the course change occurred, your continuing posts guaranteed the course would not correct back to the original.

Why do you believe Civil Liberties is heavily moderated? You say the number of active threads. That only indicates other members lack of interest in opening discussions here.

If Eric were to lift the ban on LE topics in The Okie Corral, you'd see many, many more threads. Since the stage is restricted to this venue, the audiences are much smaller. Without the usual support, most don't like standing alone. There have even been suggestions that GT members in LE not be allowed to participate in this forum.

The problem with trying to show you where you are wrong, I do not believe you are in any way capable of accepting that you might be wrong at anything, illustrated by your refusal to discuss your "tactic" for ingress/egress in a hostile crowd environment.

Your comparison of the officer using pepper gas at UC Davis to Germans gassing Jews in your mind is perfectly correct. There is nothing wrong with that in your mind.

I believe there is one person agreeing with you somewhere in the thread...yeah, Patchman...
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This is your only statement that is grounded in reality. Kudos.
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Old 11-02-2013, 19:10   #35
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
I don't want to disclose my idea. Defending it would come after disclosure, and that would be part of the inconvenience.

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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
So you have an idea as opposed to tried and true tactics?
Ollie doesn't want to disclose his "idea" for creating an emergency egress when surrounded by unfriendly demonstrators because he would end up sounding like a LEO ... Do what's needed to make it home safe.

Oh how mightly it would show the anti-LEO gods have fallen.
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Old 11-02-2013, 19:33   #36
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Maybe you should ask U.S. Jews if they see their local LE in the same light as they see Nazi SS soldiers responsible for the camps.

And ask the U.S. Jews if they see their gentile neighbors in the same light as the "good Germans" of Nazi Germany.

Just ask them. Really!

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I don't have to ask, I already know. It was never my contention that Jews view American LEO's in the same light as the Nazi's. I did say..."Taken to the extreme..." before my Nazi metaphor. When discussing a police use of force incident on GT any comparison must always come back to the Nazi's. You know this right?


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Your comparison of the officer using pepper gas at UC Davis to Germans gassing Jews in your mind is perfectly correct. There is nothing wrong with that in your mind.
When people over and over trivialize the Nazi horror of murdering 6 million Jews and another 6 million non-Jews, then it becomes easy to equate that with anything in their minds they want.

DWI check point? Easily equated to papers bitte.
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Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.

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Old 11-03-2013, 02:46   #37
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You are the one who made the extraneous statements that changed the course of the discussion. Once the course change occurred, your continuing posts guaranteed the course would not correct back to the original.

Why do you believe Civil Liberties is heavily moderated? You say the number of active threads. That only indicates other members lack of interest in opening discussions here.

If Eric were to lift the ban on LE topics in The Okie Corral, you'd see many, many more threads. Since the stage is restricted to this venue, the audiences are much smaller. Without the usual support, most don't like standing alone. There have even been suggestions that GT members in LE not be allowed to participate in this forum.

The problem with trying to show you where you are wrong, I do not believe you are in any way capable of accepting that you might be wrong at anything, illustrated by your refusal to discuss your "tactic" for ingress/egress in a hostile crowd environment.

Your comparison of the officer using pepper gas at UC Davis to Germans gassing Jews in your mind is perfectly correct. There is nothing wrong with that in your mind.

I believe there is one person agreeing with you somewhere in the thread...yeah, Patchman...
You sorta lose the high ground when you block posters out of certain subforums who didn't actually violate any rules.
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:48   #38
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You sorta lose the high ground when you block posters out of certain subforums who didn't actually violate any rules.
You should be addressing that to Eric, G19G20. Deciding when a member earns exclusion from a forum is above my pay grade. I suggest you PM him yourself.
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:54   #39
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Ollie doesn't want to disclose his "idea" for creating an emergency egress when surrounded by unfriendly demonstrators because he would end up sounding like a LEO ... Do what's needed to make it home safe.

Oh how mightly it would show the anti-LEO gods have fallen.
Would that be classified as an inconvenient truth?
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:39   #40
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Since I have this sense that you'll blow off the request for links to the sources for your specific incidents...
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
The truth is that I don't have a problem with cops in general. I have a problem with specific incidents occasionally that I read about. I have a problem with cops who taze a homeowner who is just trying to put out a fire, for example.
This one...Pinellas Park man describes being blasted with Taser as he fought house fire?

What ever came out of that incident?
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I have a problem with cops who use tear gas that is known to start fires ( ie "burners" ) then feign surprise when the house they shoot the tear gas into catches fire.
Yes, you did have a few thoughts on that...Dorner's Last Day - Interesting Summary.

Correct me if those are the wrong incidents.
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:11   #41
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You are the one who made the extraneous statements that changed the course of the discussion. Once the course change occurred, your continuing posts guaranteed the course would not correct back to the original.
My original post was only the third reply in the thread. There was no original course of conversation that we deviated from in a "course change". My post by no means prevented anyone else from offering their own original thoughts and commentary.

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Without the usual support, most don't like standing alone. There have even been suggestions that GT members in LE not be allowed to participate in this forum.
I don't mind standing alone. Excluding Civil Rights topics from GNG definitely stifled the dialogue in that area though.

The suggestion that law enforcement be excluded from participating in any forum is ridiculous. I find myself in vigorous debate most often with LEOs, neocons, and liberals (although liberals are somewhat rare here). It is the people we disagree with that challenge us the most, and make for the best learning experience. This is why I think the concept of an ignore list is ridiculous. It is the internet equivalent of plugging your fingers in your ears and saying "lalalalalala".

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The problem with trying to show you where you are wrong, I do not believe you are in any way capable of accepting that you might be wrong at anything...
You know its funny you say this, because I feel the exact same way about the law enforcement side. Whenever an incident gets posted in civil liberties, any critical thing that could be said is generally met with the argument that we are dealing with incomplete information, and making any judgement whatsoever is armchair quarterbacking, and that whatever happened must've happen for a good reason. I simply don't buy it, not all the time anyway.

I am only human, & I have a natural desire to be correct, but I assure you I am capable of honest self reflection and a change in my own beliefs and attitudes when necessary.

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Your comparison of the officer using pepper gas at UC Davis to Germans gassing Jews in your mind is perfectly correct. There is nothing wrong with that in your mind.
This is where the script gets flipped. I did not equate spraying college students with pepper spray to gassing jews. If you read my original post carefully this is clear.
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Old 11-03-2013, 13:18   #42
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Since I have this sense that you'll blow off the request for links to the sources for your specific incidents...This one...Pinellas Park man describes being blasted with Taser as he fought house fire?

What ever came out of that incident? Yes, you did have a few thoughts on that...Dorner's Last Day - Interesting Summary.

Correct me if those are the wrong incidents.
Yes those are the incidents I was referring to, there are many others I could have used as an example is well.

I have seen you do this before. Focus on minutia, ask multitudes of questions on tangential details, and obliviate any real discussion on the original topic.

Back on topic--

On balance.... weighing his actions vs what he went through, and with the knowledge that what he went through was a result of his actions, do you think it's reasonable that the UC Davis cop collected 38000 from l&i?
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Old 11-03-2013, 17:55   #43
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You are the one who made the extraneous statements that changed the course of the discussion. Once the course change occurred, your continuing posts guaranteed the course would not correct back to the original.
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
My original post was only the third reply in the thread.
It was the third, yes, but only the second relevant.
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You are the one who made the extraneous statements that changed the course of the discussion. Once the course change occurred, your continuing posts guaranteed the course would not correct back to the original.
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
There was no original course of conversation that we deviated from in a "course change".
The original course of conversation:
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Quote:
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UC Davis pepper spray cop gets $38G worker's compensation settlement

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/24...cmp=latestnews

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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Something good came from OCing.

But seriously, sounds like the UC system knew they were wrong. And paid up to make this case go away. (And $38,000 is peanuts).
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You are the one who made the extraneous statements that changed the course of the discussion. Once the course change occurred, your continuing posts guaranteed the course would not correct back to the original.
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
My post by no means prevented anyone else from offering their own original thoughts and commentary.
That is not what I said, not even close.

Your "extraneous statements" in the original post: police violence against peaceful people, "the kind of stuff that makes good raw material for jokes, or comedy skits," the Nazis gassing Jews ( about which you later said, "When discussing a police use of force incident on GT any comparison must always come back to the Nazi's. You know this right?")

In your continuing posts...well, you know what you wrote, but this one stands out:
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But when push comes to shove, as this country continues to circle the drain, they will be required to be the tip of the spear for a twisted and desperate status quo.

"If tyranny comes to America, it will come in uniform". It is an old saw, but very true. At some point LEO's will have a big choice to make. If and when the big choice comes, I hope most choose to side with the people they serve!
Did you believe that would go unanswered? And you continued that thought later...
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Old 11-03-2013, 19:05   #44
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I don't mind standing alone. Excluding Civil Rights topics from GNG definitely stifled the dialogue in that area though.
Contrary to your understanding, and that of many others, of the original intent of GNG, now The Okie Corral, it was not opened for discussions of Civil Rights/Liberties.
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This is where the script gets flipped. I did not equate spraying college students with pepper spray to gassing jews. If you read my original post carefully this is clear.
Just the officer who committed violence, sprayed the peaceful protesters with pepper spray then suing the authorities who ordered him to is as funny as "a German soldier who was in charge of gassing Jews sued the German high command over the stress of hearing the screams of people down in the gas chamber\shower."

Following it later with, "When discussing a police use of force incident on GT any comparison must always come back to the Nazi's. You know this right?"

Of course you were not comparing the two...
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Old 11-03-2013, 19:26   #45
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Yes those are the incidents I was referring to, there are many others I could have used as an example is well.
What are your complaints about those in the fire/rescue services?
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I have seen you do this before. Focus on minutia, ask multitudes of questions on tangential details, and obliviate any real discussion on the original topic.
Questions are asked only to explore and clarify points raised and left open by others.
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Old 11-03-2013, 19:33   #46
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Back on topic--

On balance.... weighing his actions vs what he went through, and with the knowledge that what he went through was a result of his actions,
What are your sources for this information? Better we use the same sources.
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...do you think it's reasonable that the UC Davis cop collected 38000 from l&i?
Provide your information sources. We'll see if there is sufficient fact to decide the reasonableness of the award.
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:25   #47
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Quiet...
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Old 11-08-2013, 13:41   #48
OlliesRevenge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Quiet...
I didn't really consider there to be much to say.

What are my criticisms about the Fire Rescue Service you ask? A while back I created a thread titled "firefighters can be jerks too", about a fire captain who unnecessarily treated a member of the public like garbage ( but you already were aware of this thread) . I have had other private critical moments toward my own profession, but this is Glock talk, not nozzle talk, so the platform just isn't here for me to be critical about a bunch of marginal Fire Rescue incidents... Even though, rest assured, they do exist.
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Old 11-08-2013, 13:45   #49
OlliesRevenge
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
What are your sources for this information? Better we use the same sources.Provide your information sources. We'll see if there is sufficient fact to decide the reasonableness of the award.

I simply asked for an opinion on somebody else's part. What I got was smug condescension. Along with the typical strategy of focusing on minutia, asking multitudes of questions on tangential details, to obliviate the simple discussion at hand.

See you at the next thread.
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Good men must not obey the laws too well.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.
~Henry David Thoreau

Remember always: The government is not the country!
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Old 11-22-2013, 22:13   #50
*ASH*
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Ollie

this is all you will get lol????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????

all you will get is a question with a question . search the forums you will see . also pm sent
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42