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Old 10-26-2013, 02:19   #1
ronduke
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University of Akron PD shooting recorded on body cam


The back story

http://www.wkyc.com/rss/article/3059...orce-justified
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:00   #2
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Some random thoughts...

It's always good that there is a positive conclusion to the investigation and the BG's motivation is uncovered (in this case it appears to be a suicide by cop, as related by family members).

Quote:
He had recently told relatives he was not going back to jail and had a plan to force an officer to kill him if he was ever pulled over.
Otherwise, the regular GNG band members of the USS TitanticallyAntiLEO would be calling for the LEO's head and slandering.

Also, I'm surprised so far we haven't heard the "It's only a BB gun" and "couldn't the Officer just shoot it out of his hand."
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Last edited by Patchman; 10-26-2013 at 07:27..
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:12   #3
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Good for the aunt to come fwd with the information she did.

The officer did not (appear to) reload after emptying his weapon, understandable considering his tunnel vision and spiked physiological arousal. Understanding 'train how you fight, fight how you train' this is why at every range outing - with every lock of the slide I rip and ram a loaded mag, and with every holster draw I execute as quickly as possible.

He might have been in trouble if the BG was still viable.

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Last edited by Ducowti; 10-26-2013 at 07:14..
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:19   #4
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I just don't get the folks that want to commit suicide, but just don't have the courage to do it. That hesitation to me is the reason to live. So, instead, some unknowing individual now has the experience of having to do it for him and possibly the weight on his conscience.
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:07   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducowti View Post
The officer did not (appear to) reload after emptying his weapon, understandable considering his tunnel vision and spiked physiological arousal.
Am I missing something? I didn't see him go to slide lock.
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:40   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msu_grad_121 View Post
Am I missing something? I didn't see him go to slide lock.
Looked like he fired around 15 rounds of the 16/18 in the weapon.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:07   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2hmghb View Post
Looked like he fired around 15 rounds of the 16/18 in the weapon.
Do they still teach tactical reload? IDK.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:14   #8
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U get the video is unavailable. Must have been pulled.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:24   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itstime View Post
U get the video is unavailable. Must have been pulled.
Still up for me.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:26   #10
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I just played it again on post # 1.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:30   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Do they still teach tactical reload? IDK.
Seems like it would have been a good place for it, huh?
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Last edited by msu_grad_121; 10-26-2013 at 10:30..
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:33   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itstime View Post
U get the video is unavailable. Must have been pulled.
Works for me.

Anyone else see the cross-fire issue at 3:05? Being picky, I know, and I've never shot anyone, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut. But if the driver had reached for the gun again, that could have ended badly.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:45   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducowti View Post
The officer did not (appear to) reload after emptying his weapon, understandable considering his tunnel vision[/URL]
It's really important to train the way you fight. IMHO, too much emphasis is place on qualification and this emphasis could needlessly lead to preventable death and injury. If in qualification magazines are staged for the COF, its reinforced that the gun is reloaded only when it runs dry and not during a loll. Additionally, I don't know if the officer ever conducted a "safety circle" but it is wise to incorporate the "safety circle" into the routine as multiple bad guys could be present. Lastly, @ around 3:14 in the video, it appears that at least two of the "backup" officers are in the line of fire of the primary officers pistol, watch out for setting yourself or others up for a cross fire situation.
All in all, the officer did a great job responding to the situation presented to him. I feel any errors made are indicative of systematic training issues.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:17   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msu_grad_121 View Post
Am I missing something? I didn't see him go to slide lock.
No, you're right - didn't run dry and lock so he must've had one left in the pipe. I counted 16 shots and figure he was out, that maybe he rode the lock (which I've done on my MP) and the slide dropped on empty mag.


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Old 10-26-2013, 11:41   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Do they still teach tactical reload? IDK.
I practice them in the hopes that I would do it under stress. Once he back at the car and the threat seems down would be a good time to do one.

He did a great job, he shot like he meant it.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:49   #16
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It works now for me. I agree with the other posters on the reload or lack of.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:59   #17
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When the subject said, "I hate to have to do all this", that seemed to be a clear indication of what might unfold next.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:52   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducowti View Post
No, you're right - didn't run dry and lock so he must've had one left in the pipe. I counted 16 shots and figure he was out, that maybe he rode the lock (which I've done on my MP) and the slide dropped on empty mag.


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I know he was carrying a Glock, but we can't tell which model. If it was a G17, that's 17+1, so it would explain the slide not locking back.

A reload would have been appropriate, but I'm not about to criticize a guy who just went through that.


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Old 10-26-2013, 13:16   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
I know he was carrying a Glock, but we can't tell which model. If it was a G17, that's 17+1, so it would explain the slide not locking back.

A reload would have been appropriate, but I'm not about to criticize a guy who just went through that.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
He could have also had a +2 extension as well.
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Old 10-26-2013, 13:19   #20
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My first thought too, tactical reload after unloading all those rounds. I was talking about that last night as a matter of fact, that it is important to do a tactical reload during any lull if you have a gun fight to make sure you have a full mag ready to go in case you have to go again.

Otherwise, my prayers to the officer, any OIS is a life changing event and especially more so if the suspect is dead.
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Old 10-26-2013, 13:24   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
I know he was carrying a Glock, but we can't tell which model. If it was a G17, that's 17+1, so it would explain the slide not locking back.

A reload would have been appropriate, but I'm not about to criticize a guy who just went through that.


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I don't see it as criticism myself. I see a big difference between the constructive thoughts we have seen here so far, and MMQBing by those who have never been there themselves, and never will.
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Old 10-26-2013, 13:40   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Do they still teach tactical reload? IDK.
We just stopped. Not sure what the justification was.

Edit: we just stopped teaching the magazine exchange (replacing a partial with a full mag with a round in the chamber).

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Ohub Campfire mobile app
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Old 10-26-2013, 13:43   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fist Of Goodness View Post
We just stopped. Not sure what the justification was.

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Ohub Campfire mobile app
We get a brief mention, but nothing more. Double taps only, none of this wasting ammo stuff with multiple shots.
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Old 10-26-2013, 13:50   #24
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Folks, I give you the value of the body worn camera, for both training and investigation purposes.
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Old 10-26-2013, 14:01   #25
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The Glock worked perfectly!
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