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Old 09-23-2013, 20:21   #51
Ohio Copper
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Originally Posted by clarson_75 View Post
So because he was seen at a bar and possibly smoked some weed, he had to have attacked the officers? He couldn't have just been **** faced and disoriented from the crash and running towards those that he thought could help? After being shut out at the first place he went? Drinking and smoking is now irrefutable proof that you are a violent person who will attack police?

As far as the broken door, I already said if I needed help and someone slammed a door in my face, I would probably get a little aggressive with the door as well. "He had a hand concealed behind his back." Couldn't he have been trying to brace pain he felt in his back after the accident. As far as the homeowner saying he told her to turn off the alarm and not call the police. The article I read had quotes in it like they were her words and it didn't mention anything about that so I don't know. Still comes off as a kid trying to not get in trouble for drunk driving, not break in an rob/rape/murder a family.

I don't think the cop did anything wrong. If someone charged at me in the middle of the night and didn't listen to commands I would have done the same thing. On the other hand, I don't think taking a few extra moments would have gotten any of the officers hurt either.

This, to me sounds exactly like the guy that the NYPD shot up a few years back for reaching into his jacket to grab his wallet. He didn't need to die, but I don't blame the officers for not waiting to see if he had a weapon.

Maybe I'm just insane and you all are just the voices in my head trying to drive me crazy and don't actually exist. Think about that for a minute!
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Old 09-23-2013, 20:31   #52
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Who said you had to wait? I remember saying I would have probably done the same thing. I said if he had waited then they might not have had to shoot him. I never said they should have waited. It is a judgement call. I don't blame people in a different area of the world for reacting the way they choose in a situation i wasn't involved with at all.
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Old 09-23-2013, 20:49   #53
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Old 09-23-2013, 20:55   #54
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Old 09-23-2013, 21:06   #55
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Originally Posted by clarson_75 View Post
On the other hand, I don't think taking a few extra moments would have gotten any of the officers hurt either.
There likely were no 'few extra moments'. As I said earlier, if a Taser was deployed he was within 25ft since that is the max range. A running person, especially a former college football player, can close that distance in less than a second. Once it is at that range the reaction must be immediate.

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As far as the broken door, I already said if I needed help and someone slammed a door in my face, I would probably get a little aggressive with the door as well.
Which is a wonderful way to get justifiably shot by the homeowner. In many states you can use force to prevent a violent entry into your home. The homeowner has already shut the door because they were frightened, getting 'aggressive' with it leads a reasonable person to believe the person is attempting to force entry.

Had that been what happened do you know what the situation would have been viewed as when hindsight found he was a recent car wreck victim? An unfortunate event just as it should have been in this case.

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Old 09-23-2013, 21:15   #56
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Hindsight is 20/20, and not the standard these incidents are judged on.

They are judged on what the person invovled knew at the time.
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:34   #57
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Who said you had to wait? I said if he had waited then they might not have had to shoot him. It is a judgement call.
Yeah, the cops should have resorted to plan B, where the cop the guy was charging deftly sidesteps the charge while sticking his leg out, causing the guy to trip, tumble and fall into the duck pond. The guy gets out of the water, is cured of his concussion/shock and everybody has a good hearty laugh about the entire incident.

Or plan C, where the third cop deploys the giant butterfly net...
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:48   #58
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Yeah, the cops should have resorted to plan B, where the cop the guy was charging deftly sidesteps the charge while sticking his leg out, causing the guy to trip, tumble and fall into the duck pond. The guy gets out of the water, is cured of his concussion/shock and everybody has a good hearty laugh about the entire incident.

Or plan C, where the third cop deploys the giant butterfly net...


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Old 09-24-2013, 06:02   #59
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Hey, Patch, anyone ever tell you that you're a funny guy? Because you are.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Yeah, the cops should have resorted to plan B, where the cop the guy was charging deftly sidesteps the charge while sticking his leg out, causing the guy to trip, tumble and fall into the duck pond. The guy gets out of the water, is cured of his concussion/shock and everybody has a good hearty laugh about the entire incident.

Or plan C, where the third cop deploys the giant butterfly net...
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:29   #60
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Acme makes a good butterfly net.

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Old 09-24-2013, 08:56   #61
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Acme makes a good butterfly net.

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Those are the ones we use to catch the guys that escape from the looney bin

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Old 09-24-2013, 09:27   #62
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I do know the facts of the whole story. Can't say much more than that due to the ongoing investigating. Why he was charged so quick we will just all have to guess there. They have reviewed the dash cam video, and everything is consistent with the officers statement. One look at the video and you can see the officers telling the victim 3 times to stop, the young officer that fired the fatal shots was also retreating when he fired.. The suspect/ victim had one hand concealed behind his back. Other whiteness have stated the suspect/victim was seen at a local bar drinking alcohol. Others, stated he was also seen smoking pot. Crime scene removed the door from the house he (the victim) went to because the door was broken, and had foot prints all over it. He also told the lady to " turn off your alarm and don't call the police" What I just stated here is only the half of it. Please pray for this officer as he was surely thrown under the bus.
I have LEO friends in CLT but I haven't asked any of them about the situation. If all your info is correct, I hope all the information comes to light.It certainly seems like the officer is getting thrown under the bus. Everyone assumes the officer was wrong simply because he was charged so quickly. I can't imagine why he couldn't be put on leave and let a grand jury decide.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:02   #63
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First thing i heard was that he ran to the house and began knocking/banning on the door to get the attention of the occupants. Homeowner said she opened the door, saw a stranger, and slammed it quickly. If I needed help after an accident like that, and I had a door slammed in my face, I might get a little more aggressive with the front door as well.
Exactly how would getting more aggressive on a front door of someone who is scared generate a positive outcome?

Years ago I was driving down Central Expressway in Dallas. I found a body laying on the shoulder of the road. It was about 1:00 AM. Pre cell phones. There were apartments nearby. I walked over and knocked on a door. Held my badge up to the peephole and said "Hey, I'm a Police Officer, theres been an accident up on the highway, call Dallas PD."

They said "Go away"

I said, "No, really, I'm a Police Officer, I don't need you to open the door or anything, just call DPD and tell them theres been a major accident in the XXXX block of Southbound Central...as a matter of fact, just give them your address."

They said: "If you're a Police Officer, why should we call the Police?"

I said, "Because I don't have a radio, and, I'm by myslef, all I want you to do is call the Police."

They said "Go away or we're calling the Police."

I said, "Good, thats all I want you to do is call the Police, once they are here, I can tell them whats going on, but, just freaking call the Police."

It never occured to me to "Get a little more aggressive with the door." to get help...
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Old 09-24-2013, 17:32   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarson_75 View Post
So because he was seen at a bar and possibly smoked some weed, he had to have attacked the officers? He couldn't have just been **** faced and disoriented from the crash and running towards those that he thought could help? After being shut out at the first place he went? Drinking and smoking is now irrefutable proof that you are a violent person who will attack police?

As far as the broken door, I already said if I needed help and someone slammed a door in my face, I would probably get a little aggressive with the door as well. "He had a hand concealed behind his back." Couldn't he have been trying to brace pain he felt in his back after the accident. As far as the homeowner saying he told her to turn off the alarm and not call the police. The article I read had quotes in it like they were her words and it didn't mention anything about that so I don't know. Still comes off as a kid trying to not get in trouble for drunk driving, not break in an rob/rape/murder a family.

I don't think the cop did anything wrong. If someone charged at me in the middle of the night and didn't listen to commands I would have done the same thing. On the other hand, I don't think taking a few extra moments would have gotten any of the officers hurt either.

This, to me sounds exactly like the guy that the NYPD shot up a few years back for reaching into his jacket to grab his wallet. He didn't need to die, but I don't blame the officers for not waiting to see if he had a weapon.

Maybe I'm just insane and you all are just the voices in my head trying to drive me crazy and don't actually exist. Think about that for a minute!
Why would you feel you have the right to commit the crimes (plural) of:
  • Trespass
  • Damage to property
  • Disorderly conduct
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 09-24-2013, 17:50   #65
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Because all 9 year old girls feel they have the right to hissy fits?
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:46   #66
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I don't know, maybe he has a point.

I mean, if there was a report of a guy matching his description actually breaking down the door and forcing his way into the house, the cops would have been much less likely to open fire on him when he charged them and didn't respond to the taser, right? The natural assumption would be he's a good guy that needs help?

Makes sense to me... : whistling:

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Old 09-25-2013, 12:30   #67
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I can only wonder how those in charge who decided to charge this officer would have otherwise seduced the deceased into submission.
Seems pretty clear. They send those working below them into the fray. They have no intention of doing police work and probably didn't do any when they were new in LE.
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Old 09-25-2013, 17:44   #68
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Opening disclaimer, the following is not my opinion on the matter. Chief Monroe has publicly stated that he expects his officers to be able to fight unarmed assailants without resorting to their sidearm. He statement seemed to suggest that he was involved, or at least consulted on the decision to charge his officer.
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Old 09-25-2013, 18:58   #69
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Chief Monroe has publicly stated that he expects his officers to be able to fight unarmed assailants without resorting to their sidearm.
If this is true, then the Chief is a monkey's ASH.

And what he "expects" his cops to do does not have the force of law.

I look forward to the day when this cop owns half the jurisdiction.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:47   #70
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Yeah, the cops should have resorted to plan B, where the cop the guy was charging deftly sidesteps the charge while sticking his leg out, causing the guy to trip, tumble and fall into the duck pond. The guy gets out of the water, is cured of his concussion/shock and everybody has a good hearty laugh about the entire incident.

Or plan C, where the third cop deploys the giant butterfly net...


This made my day.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:09   #71
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Quote:
Chief Monroe has publicly stated that he expects his officers to be able to fight unarmed assailants without resorting to their sidearm. He statement seemed to suggest that he was involved, or at least consulted on the decision to charge his officer.
Hunch: this chief's street skills were limited or so crappy, everyone wanted him to get promoted just so they could patrol safely.

Just a hunch, mind you.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:03   #72
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Hunch: this chief's street skills were limited or so crappy, everyone wanted him to get promoted just so they could patrol safely.

Just a hunch, mind you.
Odds are he would be one of then first to start shooting if he was in a fight and loosing.

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Old 09-26-2013, 11:31   #73
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Odds are he would be one of then first to start shooting if he was in a fight and loosing.

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"Do as I say, not as I do."

We have no one to blame but ourselves for letting bust outs like this rise to that position.

The writing is usually always on the wall, they're a screw up in FTO, get a pass. They're a lazy, call dodger on the street, get a pass. Then they finally wind up chief and screw the rest of us over. Start axing these knuckleheads from the jump and well be good to go.


I work with a guy who had to go through the training process TWICE. He is an epic pain in the ass and now wants to take the next sergeants spot. The writing was on the wall, in your mid twenties, you aren't a "slow learner", you just don't give a damn.


Sorry for the rant, hit a sore spot with me.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:37   #74
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
"Do as I say, not as I do."

We have no one to blame but ourselves for letting bust outs like this rise to that position.

The writing is usually always on the wall, they're a screw up in FTO, get a pass. They're a lazy, call dodger on the street, get a pass. Then they finally wind up chief and screw the rest of us over. Start axing these knuckleheads from the jump and well be good to go.


I work with a guy who had to go through the training process TWICE. He is an epic pain in the ass and now wants to take the next sergeants spot. The writing was on the wall, in your mid twenties, you aren't a "slow learner", you just don't give a damn.


Sorry for the rant, hit a sore spot with me.
The problem is we can't just get rid of them. The cycle has already begun. Losers in control wanting losers to replace them. Those of us who work hard have two choices: become worthless and get promoted (maybe) or move on to a department that wants the best and most capable leading the charge, officially. If anyone knows of a department like that, let me know.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:37   #75
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
"Do as I say, not as I do."

We have no one to blame but ourselves for letting bust outs like this rise to that position.

The writing is usually always on the wall, they're a screw up in FTO, get a pass. They're a lazy, call dodger on the street, get a pass. Then they finally wind up chief and screw the rest of us over. Start axing these knuckleheads from the jump and well be good to go.


I work with a guy who had to go through the training process TWICE. He is an epic pain in the ass and now wants to take the next sergeants spot. The writing was on the wall, in your mid twenties, you aren't a "slow learner", you just don't give a damn.


Sorry for the rant, hit a sore spot with me.
Around here the admin selects people most like themselves so it is a self perpetuating cycle. They tend to promote people with less than 5 years as patrol officers who bounce around specialty unit to specialty unit until they make Sgt. Then they spend as much time in the office working on special projects, usually doing the work of those above them.

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