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Old 08-27-2013, 18:03   #21
c5367
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Originally Posted by PM720 View Post
To all the guys that have these wonderful clubs that post results the same day or a day or 2 later, how many of these could do this with 500 to a 1000 entries? And allow a protest period? At the IDPA regional I shot sure we had the results that afternoon. We had to start at 7:30am and I think I left the range after 7pm after the awards were all presented. I think we got a 15 minute protest period. Yeah, I get a little impatient too sometimes but overall I am happy with the process and I can wait.

And I agree with the IG statement, this is what our society has turned into and in most cases I am not sure it is a good thing.

Scott
FTR, I wasn't complaining. The GSSF folks do a darn fine job getting prelims up very quickly. My last 2 GSSF matches were up same day I shot (Sunday). That's a pretty impressive feat with hundreds of entires.

Just pointing out that USPSA scoring ain't so bad if you have a decent club.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:42   #22
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GSSF staffers have to attend each and every match.

They can only do finals when they are actually in the office.

They typically travel to a match on a Thursday or Friday, do the match Saturday/Sunday, and travel back on Monday.

Which typically leaves them Tuesday & Wednesday to do "office stuff" which not only includes doing final results and awards, but gathering and shipping the match stuff necessary for the match they are doing two weeks out.

"Oh, sorry, the targets/scoresheets/pasters/timers did not get here in time for this match because two weeks ago, I took 2 days to get out the awards from the XYZ match that happened 3 weeks ago. Sorry, you 200 people with guns who showed up here today, expecting a match, but I am afraid you are just going to have to turn around and go home. However, I am sure you will be happy to know that the participants of the XYZ match DID get their awards, and are happy at your sacrifice. "

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

And this time of year, full-time GSSF staffers are doing 2, sometimes three, weekends PER MONTH.

It is not a question of how "slow" they are in getting finals and awards out.

It is a miracle that they get them out as FAST as they ARE.

So quit your whining, and stop biting the hand that feeds you.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:52   #23
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Originally Posted by PM720 View Post
To all the guys that have these wonderful clubs that post results the same day or a day or 2 later, how many of these could do this with 500 to a 1000 entries? And allow a protest period?...
Scott
I think you may have been reading too fast to gather context.

The comments about "clubs having results posted same day" weren't made as a reflection about GSSF.

The OP also went on to post that he didn't shoot USPSA because of long delays for results, the several replies I saw to that (mine was one) addressed local **USPSA** results. Nothing to do with GSSF. So you have to be aware that there are TWO conversations within this one thread.

Now, regarding the GSSF stuff... I think GSSF does a find job on the prelims, but certainly think they could cut down the time on making the results final. After all.... if someone doesn't have a computer, they're not even going to know what their results ARE, to dispute them, irght? And two weeks is more than enough time to get online and look at your scores.

If you don't care enough to get online and look at your scores within two weeks, you obviously don't care enough about the competition for it to matter anyway. Or you know you're not in the top 3-5 or something.
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Old 08-28-2013, 20:34   #24
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10 years ago, as Danny said, it took way longer. At least we generally have preliminary results within about a week of the match now. Back when I first got started >10 years ago, some of us were pretty vocal about how moving to some kind of scanned bubble sheets would speed up the data entry. Obviously, that never happened. It just occurred to me though, with the leaps technology has made in that time, how far off might we be from the following setup:

At registration, they print and hand you a single "card" per entry with a 2-D bar code and the human readable text for your name/entry number/division. At each stage, the scorer has a tablet (ipad, android, whatever). They scan your code card, the tablet brings up a representation of a score sheet with your name and entry # on it. As you shoot, your times are recorded in the app. When finished, your scores are entered. Once approved (by scanning your card again), the score is uploaded to "the server" and maybe emailed to the competitor. At the end of the match, GSSF snags a CSV dump from the server, imports it into their spreadsheet software, does whatever calculating they need to do, and export a PDF.

The technology for that is all here today. The only things stopping that from being a reality are the cost of the hardware, programming, and IT personnel it'd take to make it happen. With that, you could have preliminary results as soon as the match is over (actually, preliminary results could be viewable in real time as the match progresses and the whole data to PDF part could actually be automated or skipped in favor of html generated from data in the scores db).

I suspect they'd need enough spare tablets to swap them out at least once during the day for battery charging. It'd probably be a few grand each in hardware and software, and they'd need either internet or a local WIFI network setup at each match.

It's something to dream about at least.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:22   #25
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Originally Posted by njl View Post
...Back when I first got started >10 years ago, some of us were pretty vocal about how moving to some kind of scanned bubble sheets would speed up the data entry. Obviously, that never happened. It just occurred to me though, with the leaps technology has made in that time, how far off might we be from the following setup:.....

...It's something to dream about at least.
I'm a super-techie and considered and suggested a similar system about 3-4 years ago when I got into GSSF. It only takes a casual observer a couple of minutes and one single match to realize there are MUCH better ways to do this. The technology was there >10 years ago; now the technology is cheaper and easier to implement.

Unfortunately, this largely falls on deaf ears. GSSFs IT savvy and (apparently) budget is nil. They can't get past the same old website they've had for (??) years and keep GSSF documents up-to-date.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:36   #26
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I'm a super-techie and considered and suggested a similar system about 3-4 years ago when I got into GSSF. It only takes a casual observer a couple of minutes and one single match to realize there are MUCH better ways to do this. The technology was there >10 years ago; now the technology is cheaper and easier to implement.

Unfortunately, this largely falls on deaf ears. GSSFs IT savvy and (apparently) budget is nil. They can't get past the same old website they've had for (??) years and keep GSSF documents up-to-date.
Oh, the web site used to be far far worse. For a while, it was so broken, you actually got different content depending on your browser's user-agent. Not all the content was being updated...so some of us wouldn't see things others saw.

I think the biggest problems with higher tech scoring (anything reliant on a "computer" at the stage) is the cost of the equipment (both initial and maintenance) and the need for power at the stages. I doubt any tablet or common netbook would last from 9-5 under constant use. I suppose you could put a big external battery pack at each stage...but that's another expense and think of all the wires that'd be involved in recharging all that gear Saturday night and before the next match.

Unless the technology eliminated a staff person, there's probably no savings for GSSF/Glock, so what's their incentive? I'm sure we all want faster scores...but who wants to put someone out of a job? Actually, even if it did put someone out of a job, it'd likely create the need for a more expensive (IT) person to manage and keep all the gear running.

There's also the saying, To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer. Think of the chaos if the electronic system fouled up and large numbers of scores were lost or corrupted. At least with the paper sheets, that really can't happen. Sure, you could put a printer at each stage too...but that's even more $.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:55   #27
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...I think the biggest problems with higher tech scoring (anything reliant on a "computer" at the stage) is the cost of the equipment (both initial and maintenance) and the need for power at the stages...
I think the biggest problem with high-tech or any-tech is the user(s). I would bet that a full 95% (or more) of the GSSF ROs have no idea whatsoever how to use the GSSF shot-timer menus to do things as simple as adjust sensitivity or review shot strings - and they'll do so much more than that. I-Pad/tablet input and use is, sadly... laughable.
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:58   #28
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants a faster system. I've seen tablet/computer based scoring at major USPSA matches with much more complicated scoring, so it could be done. What we are overlooking is that the scoring and compiling is not what appears to be taking the time. The scores for my match were up within 24 hours. The hard work was done almost immediately. The part that is holding things up is apparently this waiting period for reporting discrepancies. As Ron59 said, there is no reason to have a month dedicated to this.

Just to clarify, I'm not mad and I'm not denigrating GSSF or it's employees. I enjoyed the match I attended and everyone was great. I just think the scoring and prizes could be done faster.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:39   #29
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Everyone makes mistakes, no reason to rush to set them in stone. After a couple of weeks of no one raising issues then it seems reasonable to lock it in and if someone finds something later, well, they had ample opportunity to pull their crumpled score sheets out of the range bag and check them.
The staff gets the prelims up pretty quickly, so getting the scores input doesn't appear to be the issue. It's the 30 day protest window. The staff gets all the work done, then it sits for month waiting for corrections.

The above seems like a pretty reasonable suggestion. 2 weeks as a protest period, then finalize them. It's no more work for the staff, no extra cost for tablets and such.
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Old 08-29-2013, 18:55   #30
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I had a five or six hour drive home from Marietta and Brighton due to meal stops and sightseeing, IIRC the prelims were up by the time I got around to looking and it might have been that night. I really can't remember if it was the same or the next day.

I am however ready to see finals. I want to spend my coupon and don't want to do so if I got lucky, three Glocks in one year would be an embarassment of riches.
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Old 08-29-2013, 20:13   #31
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I agree, I would like to see the finals posted in the two week time frame. Not taking anything away from the GSSF staff, they do a fantastic job! But like another post stated, all the hard work is done once the prelims are posted. If you don't care enough about an error with your score within two weeks, why should everyone else suffer!
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:05   #32
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Year ago today!

One year ago today, last years Marietta finals were posted. Maybe by chance this years will be posted today!
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:28   #33
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Most of the GSSF staff had a well deserved 3-day holiday weekend. Give them a break.
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Old 09-05-2013, 14:04   #34
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I don't have a problem with the one month wait myself. I don't have a problem with paper score sheets either.
I have had three computers crash hard drives on me thru the years and that really does create problems even with backups.

I don't see a need for all the, "Instant Gradification" we are rewarded with now truthfully. It only drives the whinners to want more, faster. We still have to wait for the Snail Mail to deliever the certificates and rewards. Makes for a pleasant surprize in the mail by the time it arrives.

OK the systems to do what you want are there. Then there are upgrades and constant wear and tear on wires and electrical components to maintain. The system GLOCK currently uses seems satisfactory to me.
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Old 09-05-2013, 14:28   #35
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Most of the GSSF staff had a well deserved 3-day holiday weekend. Give them a break.
Well, some of them were working the GA. State USPSA Championship Match for part of that 3 day weekend!!!
As was I.


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Old 09-05-2013, 15:25   #36
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I remember the electronic fiasco

scores entered you got a receipt like piece of paper

sounded good DID NOT WORK.

REMEMBER the RO's are Volunteers they do not have the time to learn how to make systems work.
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Old 09-05-2013, 15:49   #37
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Well, some of them were working the GA. State USPSA Championship Match for part of that 3 day weekend!!!
As was I.
Isn't that a labor of love....??
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Old 09-05-2013, 19:27   #38
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FWIW- I wasn't "whinning" just stating a fact! And OMG, what do you know, I was right!

Congratulations to the winners!

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Old 09-05-2013, 19:50   #39
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Isn't that a labor of love....??
Yep it is, and speaking for myself, it payed well! I got a pistol certificate in the mail yesterday on a random draw!!!!!
😃😃😃


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Old 09-07-2013, 05:23   #40
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Yep it is, and speaking for myself, it payed well! I got a pistol certificate in the mail yesterday on a random draw!!!!!
������


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Well then, Congratulations!
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