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Old 08-19-2013, 11:22   #41
Tiro Fijo
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Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
I wasn't sure what he meant, either, but after I thought about it I suspected he might have been inferring some controllability & accuracy issues with the Airweight and the harder recoiling +P loads.

I was thinking he was worried about bullet pull. Oh well.


I have never had any problem with regular +p loads in the Airweight, however that discludes the Bufalo Bore +p as they are too much for the aluminum frame and will cause stretching in no time IMO. I've had this happen in another revolver and it required a new crane & cylinder, but it was not a .38 Special.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:59   #42
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As I had to go the range yesterday I decided to shoot my 442 with the Rem. 158 gr. +p doing some pocket drills (from a pocket holster). From the pocket I can do a five shot dump into the COM zone, 9 ring & in, one handed in two seconds. I timed it (obviously). This was at 3 yds.

My point being that a belly gun drawn from a pocket holster and point shot one handed at close range is one of, if not the, fastest ways to get lead on target and this is where the DA revolver excels without peer IMO for those willing to put in the time to become proficient with one.

Alas, it is a dying art and it breaks my heart to see once proud men like fastbolt reduced to carrying a .380 tucked away in Metrosexual Spandex. My, how the great have fallen. I hardly knew thee.


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Old 08-20-2013, 12:19   #43
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reduced to carrying a .380 tucked away in Metrosexual Spandex.

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Old 08-20-2013, 12:37   #44
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I carry a 642 loaded with air cooled wheel weights -- lee 158 or lyman 155 grain semi wad cutters with 4.1 grains of HP-38 or WW 231. Not an ouchy load. Can shoot as long as I want without fatigue. Accurate out to 50 yards. Cuts nice, clean holes. Costs basically nothing to shoot. I want to shoot what I carry, and to be at all proficient, it takes a lot of shooting. No way in the world I could do that with Gold Dot 135 grain ammo.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:46   #45
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You can purchase gold dots by the 100 and load them close to Speer velocities.
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Old 08-20-2013, 13:21   #46
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You can purchase gold dots by the 100 and load them close to Speer velocities.
Right. And a 100 lbs of wheel weights costs about $14.00. Factor in about 15% wastage for zinc wheel weights and weight of steel clips gives about 3,750 158 grainer cast bullets.

Wholesale price on 110 gr Gold Dots is $16.00, without delivery. 135s cost about $18.00 per hundred.

I can't afford to shoot 400 rounds a month of Gold Dots, every month.
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Old 08-20-2013, 13:27   #47
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135 grain +p Speer gold dot for short barrel.
This would be my suggestion as well.

We're living in a time, these last few years, where the companies are really responding to the needs of the market in the area of carry pistols and ammo, and things the like the .38 +P snubbie load is a good example of that, and IMHO the best of the bunch.

Last edited by ranger1968; 08-20-2013 at 13:30..
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Old 08-20-2013, 13:44   #48
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Right. And a 100 lbs of wheel weights costs about $14.00. Factor in about 15% wastage for zinc wheel weights and weight of steel clips gives about 3,750 158 grainer cast bullets.

Wholesale price on 110 gr Gold Dots is $16.00, without delivery. 135s cost about $18.00 per hundred.

I can't afford to shoot 400 rounds a month of Gold Dots, every month.
You are telling me you put 4800 rounds through your snub nose a year? That is a lot. I average about 50-100 rounds a month through mine and that is a lot.

Can I see the wear on it? I would love to see the forcing cone and what your gap measurements are.


I would love to see gel testing on your load. In my experiences wheel weights are excellent target ammo but do not expand reliably. I wouldn't carry them as a self defense round.

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Old 08-20-2013, 13:52   #49
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
As I had to go the range yesterday I decided to shoot my 442 with the Rem. 158 gr. +p doing some pocket drills (from a pocket holster). From the pocket I can do a five shot dump into the COM zone, 9 ring & in, one handed in two seconds. I timed it (obviously). This was at 3 yds.

My point being that a belly gun drawn from a pocket holster and point shot one handed at close range is one of, if not the, fastest ways to get lead on target and this is where the DA revolver excels without peer IMO for those willing to put in the time to become proficient with one.

Alas, it is a dying art and it breaks my heart to see once proud men like fastbolt reduced to carrying a .380 tucked away in Metrosexual Spandex. My, how the great have fallen. I hardly knew thee.


Yeah, I caught that.

Actually, though, it was my friend who was looking to carry something slimmer than a 442 while wearing bicycling spandex.

I couldn't slip anything underneath the longsleeve Underarmour compression shirts I often wear to work the range. (Maybe that's why shaving chest hair is so popular with the younger crowd, since it shows through some colors of those shirts? )

Anyway, while some of the other instructors were obviously prepared to enjoy some good-natured ribbing at my expense when I brought out the LCP, seeing how rapidly & accurately the 90-95gr JHP's can be hammered into "threat targets" seems to mitigate some of the joking.

The pocket-holster draw drill like you described is usually an eye-opener for younger guys & gals, too, isn't it? I miss the days when service revolvers were de rigueur and a lot of folks had to develop a solid foundation of handgun shooting skills with DA revolvers.

A little 5-shot snub can be very rapidly & effectively used in trained hands, can't they?

A little too lumpy for spandex concealment, though ...

FWIW, my traveling (driving) LEOSA weapons have usually become one of my 5-shot snubs and my LCP, instead of the 3913, G26 or G27 & a snub I used to carry along.
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Old 08-20-2013, 17:59   #50
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...The pocket-holster draw drill like you described is usually an eye-opener for younger guys & gals, too, isn't it? I miss the days when service revolvers were de rigueur and a lot of folks had to develop a solid foundation of handgun shooting skills with DA revolvers.

A little 5-shot snub can be very rapidly & effectively used in trained hands, can't they?...


That is a fact, Sir. I carry a semi-auto IWB AND a snubbie in the right front pocket not just as a backup, but also as a "cafeteria" type carry where you can select which you may need for whatever scenario. When you're older you need options as it can take more of a sweep to open the jacket to grab IWB, especially if you have "furniture" disease............whereas your chest has fallen into your drawers.

As a side note, I saw & shot a fella's mint S&W Model 37 at the range as well. Man, I haven't seen a Model 37 in ages!! It was a later one with the steel cylinder.
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Old 08-20-2013, 19:23   #51
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You are telling me you put 4800 rounds through your snub nose a year? That is a lot. I average about 50-100 rounds a month through mine and that is a lot.

Can I see the wear on it? I would love to see the forcing cone and what your gap measurements are.


I would love to see gel testing on your load. In my experiences wheel weights are excellent target ammo but do not expand reliably. I wouldn't carry them as a self defense round.
200 rounds of 38 every two weeks. 100 rounds of 22lr through the CZ 75 for warm-up. Shoot at rocks, remnants of clay pigeons or whatever is about half-way up on the 50 yard berm.

My Blackberry can't focus down a forcing cone.

Semi-wadcutters punch holes. I run 200 grain semi-wadcutters through the Smith 625 for the same reason. I don't look for expansion when pushing a pill at less than 700 fps. I look for placement, and that takes practice that I can afford.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:39   #52
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200 rounds of 38 every two weeks. 100 rounds of 22lr through the CZ 75 for warm-up. Shoot at rocks, remnants of clay pigeons or whatever is about half-way up on the 50 yard berm.

My Blackberry can't focus down a forcing cone.

Semi-wadcutters punch holes. I run 200 grain semi-wadcutters through the Smith 625 for the same reason. I don't look for expansion when pushing a pill at less than 700 fps. I look for placement, and that takes practice that I can afford.
You have my respect.
I try to get a couple hundred in a month thru my 442 if I'm lucky and agree that good skills can negate the latest and greatest bullet designs when you're able to put them in the right spot consistently.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:19   #53
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Good choices are, Gold Dot 135gr +p, 158gr LSWHP +p, critical defense and federal nyclad.



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Old 08-21-2013, 12:24   #54
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200 rounds of 38 every two weeks. 100 rounds of 22lr through the CZ 75 for warm-up. Shoot at rocks, remnants of clay pigeons or whatever is about half-way up on the 50 yard berm.

My Blackberry can't focus down a forcing cone.
I would still like to see photos of a revolver that sees 4800 rounds a year if you could....

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Old 08-21-2013, 14:14   #55
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I have pocket carried a 5-shot revolver daily for nearly 30 years, both in uniform & off duty. I still pocket carry a S&W Model 38 Airweight Bodyguard daily, even 13 years after I retired. I have gone through the cycle of ammo changes as the KCSO upgraded the issued .38+p duty ammo.

I tried the 135 Grain +p Short Barrel Load in several snubbies, both 5 & 6 shot. I could never get satisfactory accuracy in any of them. I still have a 20 round box in my ammo cabinet. Over the years I nearly always reverted to the 158 grain LSWCHP +p after a short time.

But, about 4 or 5 years ago I tried the Corbon DPX 110 Grain +P, excellent accuracy and shootability in both the Airweight & a Colt Agent. It also does well in 3" & 4" barreled revolvers, although I prefer a heavy bullet in a duty sized revolver. I currently carry the FBI load in my serviced size revolvers & the Corbon load in my snubbies for Serious Social Work ..... BTW, I have had excellent penetration & expansion from both rounds in flesh as well as testing material.

As was stated earlier in this thread, I too have accumulated 100 of the 140 Grain FTX bullets that are designed for the .357 Magnum. That Hornandy round is my current back country carry in .357 Revolvers and Levers, since I live in the Lead-Free Condor Zone of CA. I am looking to work up a load for a 1979 vintage 4" S&W Model 64 Heavy Barrel with those, thinking maybe 2400 for propellent.

The 64 packs so well compared to my .357's ......
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Old 08-21-2013, 15:03   #56
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I would still like to see photos of a revolver that sees 4800 rounds a year if you could....
That's not really that much ammo....I doubt the pistol will show much visible wear....
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Old 08-21-2013, 15:26   #57
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That's not really that much ammo....I doubt the pistol will show much visible wear....
Given the same amount of general, holster and handling, wear, and if the gun was cleaned you couldn't tell a 4.800 round gun from the same model with 400 rounds through it.

It would take gauges to determine any throat erosion and there are enough variations in production that would make a conclusion suspect.
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Old 08-21-2013, 15:39   #58
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Given the same amount of general, holster and handling, wear, and if the gun was cleaned you couldn't tell a 4.800 round gun from the same model with 400 rounds through it.

It would take gauges to determine any throat erosion and there are enough variations in production that would make a conclusion suspect.
Exactly.
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Old 08-21-2013, 16:07   #59
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Remington 158gr. LHP +p.
Really hard to argue with that choice. They almost always expand some & the heavy bullet penetrates deep enough. Easy to shoot well too. I don't think the 135gr SGDHP+P is all that much of an improvement, but not a bad load. What Is nice about the 158gr LSWCHP+P load, it's easily duplicated for practice w/ a 158grLSWC & 6-8 diff powders.
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Old 08-21-2013, 17:55   #60
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135 grain +p Speer gold dot for short barrel.
This right here.
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