GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-12-2013, 17:32   #1
agtman
10mm Spartiate
 
agtman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,580
G&A 10mm article, ...

Hadn't looked over the gun rags for a while, excepting the quick thumb-through I gave an issue of Rifle magazine a while back.

Today I was in an area Meijer store and I came across the Sept. 2013 issue of Guns & Ammo and just randomly picked it up to have a look.

This issue contains two, literally, back-to-back articles touching on the 10mm AUTO.

The first is a smarmy, uninformed piece by the resident G&A 10-hater talking-up the .40 at the expense of the 10mm. It's all smack on our round, apparently dead (again), while the .40 gets pumped like it's god's gift to the U.S. shooting community, L.E., etc.

Okay, whatever.

The second is a "We Shoot" G&A staff article on the 10mm Gen 4 G20. It's actually a credible write-up and is excellent on the gun itself, although the writer apparently never heard of Underwood, DT or Corbon ammo. He did hear about BB 220gn HC loads and Hornady's 165gn 10mm ammo (@ somewhere around 1200fps), both of which he put through the Gen 4 G20. No malfs whatsoever and he got great accuracy, as 10Ringers would expect. Plus his overall comments on handling, etc., were positive.

Notwithstanding the limited ammo selection used in his review, the only "downside" I noticed in his closing comments - and it's more of a quibble really - is the writer's extremely narrow view of the role of a 15+1 10mm G20. He sees it as limited to either (1) a "back-up" sidearm for hunting or (2) as an "outdoor" gun when camping, hiking, or working on horseback on the back-40 of a farm out west, etc. Neither the gun nor its cartridge, from his comments, would be his first choice for CCW, duty use, or home defense.

That, of course, misses the point of the 10mm's versatility of use. It handles ALL of these roles as well or better than other so-called "service" cartridges that are available in a hi-cap autoloading platform of reasonable size and weight. Maybe a "nit" being picked there, but overall it was a positive write-up.

Just FYI for the group.
__________________
The 10mm AUTO: when you're finally serious about stopping power.
More great 10mm sites:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by agtman; 08-12-2013 at 17:39..
agtman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 17:43   #2
Michael Rye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,137
I may have to check that out. I agree, the dismissal of the 10mm as an SD round I have always found comical. Back in the day of wheelies, 357 Magnum was regarded as the end-all-be-all. Now that we have a high capacity semi-auto which ballistically does everything the 357 Mag can...that is somehow passe' ?

I have never understood that reasoning!
Michael Rye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 17:51   #3
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 12,945


Yes I noticed that about the article as well.

There is certainly nothing wrong with the 10mm for self defense, given the right load choice.
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
4949shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 18:47   #4
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
I have it in front of me as I type.


Yes I too fail to grasp his concept about


" Although a lot of fans of the Glock 20- of any generation-undoubtedly see it as a defensive tool, to me it seems best -suited to be a general-purpose outdoorsman's gun."

His own testing shows the accuracy with the CD load and it's ballistics are bloody good for defense. Right in line with the highly effective, final incarnation, of the .41 mag police load.

OH

BTW

Did you look at the picture of the author in the .40 article shooting the gun?

He is all humped up like a dog crapping a peach pit.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 19:15   #5
agtman
10mm Spartiate
 
agtman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
I have it in front of me as I type.
Yes I too fail to grasp his concept about


" Although a lot of fans of the Glock 20- of any generation-undoubtedly see it as a defensive tool, to me it seems best -suited to be a general-purpose outdoorsman's gun."

His own testing shows the accuracy with the CD load and it's ballistics are bloody good for defense. Right in line with the highly effective, final incarnation, of the .41 mag police load.
Yep, and instead of a 6-shot wheelie (e.g., a S&W model 58) it's a 15+1 autoloader that can push 200gn+ loads into the low-end territory of the .41 magnum.

Quote:
OH BTW

Did you look at the picture of the author in the .40 article shooting the gun?
He is all humped up like a dog crapping a peach pit.
Yes! I laughed when I saw that not-so-flattering pic.

He should have known to keep himself behind the scenes and get G&A to spring for a "Brokeback Mountain"-looking male model as the .40S&W eye-candy.

__________________
The 10mm AUTO: when you're finally serious about stopping power.
More great 10mm sites:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by agtman; 08-12-2013 at 19:20..
agtman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 19:29   #6
HiVel
HiVel
 
HiVel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Leeds, AL
Posts: 258
Guns and Ammo is NOT in touch with a lot of the reality of today -I do not like the magazine as they gloss over many things do not get to any depth on a lot of issues and are as opinionated as a democrat in Chicago. Just not my favorite.
__________________
I used to be cool
HiVel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 21:17   #7
BlackFratelli
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 151
Groupthink & Asinine magazine aside, we must admit that the problem 10mm was engineered to fix has been addressed via other means. In the early 1980s one could not purchase high-quality 9mm JHPs like we have today, and high capacity .45 ACP guns are quite common nowadays in large part because of advanced polymer frames.

Add in the fact that some legal jurisdictions are staffed by hoplophobe District Attorneys and police , and 10mm might actually be a liability for home defense. One big reason Harold Fish was convicted is because the jury pool bought into the prosecution's argument that the 10mm was a death ray round. Simply put, when we see a 10mm Glock we see a multi-use defensive weapon. The anti's and gun-ignorant see a "hand cannon", and such duffers will be deciding your fate in the jury box.
BlackFratelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 07:11   #8
HiVel
HiVel
 
HiVel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Leeds, AL
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFratelli View Post
Groupthink & Asinine magazine aside, we must admit that the problem 10mm was engineered to fix has been addressed via other means. In the early 1980s one could not purchase high-quality 9mm JHPs like we have today, and high capacity .45 ACP guns are quite common nowadays in large part because of advanced polymer frames.

Add in the fact that some legal jurisdictions are staffed by hoplophobe District Attorneys and police , and 10mm might actually be a liability for home defense. One big reason Harold Fish was convicted is because the jury pool bought into the prosecution's argument that the 10mm was a death ray round. Simply put, when we see a 10mm Glock we see a multi-use defensive weapon. The anti's and gun-ignorant see a "hand cannon", and such duffers will be deciding your fate in the jury box.
Good thoughts -be aware friends...
__________________
I used to be cool
HiVel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:22   #9
Tazz10m
Mod Aerator
 
Tazz10m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: On the beach with girls in bikinis
Posts: 6,172
I think agtman should write an article all about the 10mm, get it published in G&A, and straighten out these people. He can even feature/reference my 20 round G29 GPCCG "General Purpose Compact Carry Gun".

The 10 Ring

Btw, 10mm [i]surpasses[i/] .357 Mag.
__________________
Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGrip™!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

Brooks W. Speier

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Official AGrip™ Manufacturer Website

AGrip™ Installation Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



Never let anyone who is clueless about defense tell you what you can and can't do to protect yourself and others.

Μολὼν λαβέ!

Last edited by Tazz10m; 08-13-2013 at 12:25..
Tazz10m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 13:21   #10
agtman
10mm Spartiate
 
agtman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz10m View Post
I think agtman should write an article all about the 10mm, get it published in G&A, and straighten out these people. He can even feature/reference my 20 round G29 GPCCG "General Purpose Compact Carry Gun".

The 10 Ring

Btw, 10mm surpasses .357 Mag.
Ha! Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Maybe when I retire finally, ... although I'm not sure my smarmier comments directed at exploding the myths & historical inaccuracies spread by the 10mm-haters (past & present) would survive the editor's red pen.

Then there'd be screamin'-n-yellin' on my part, et al.

But Tazz, trust me, a pic of your G29 GPCCG dead center in the article would be Exhibit #1 in demonstating just how nicely a Glock 10mm can be tailored to the suit the owner!
__________________
The 10mm AUTO: when you're finally serious about stopping power.
More great 10mm sites:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
agtman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 14:08   #11
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFratelli View Post
Groupthink & Asinine magazine aside, we must admit that the problem 10mm was engineered to fix has been addressed via other means. In the early 1980s one could not purchase high-quality 9mm JHPs like we have today, and high capacity .45 ACP guns are quite common nowadays in large part because of advanced polymer frames.

Add in the fact that some legal jurisdictions are staffed by hoplophobe District Attorneys and police , and 10mm might actually be a liability for home defense. One big reason Harold Fish was convicted is because the jury pool bought into the prosecution's argument that the 10mm was a death ray round. Simply put, when we see a 10mm Glock we see a multi-use defensive weapon. The anti's and gun-ignorant see a "hand cannon", and such duffers will be deciding your fate in the jury box.
That is why I give such kudos to my locale. Glock 10mms of any model are in the top 5 of CCW pistols sold by out LGS and are carried by some LEOs around here on and/or off duty.

Remember the old saying

"Location, location, location"

I concede in an inner city libtard wasteland it might not be a good choice, but ".460 Rowland" sure sounds harmless.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 14:38   #12
Tazz10m
Mod Aerator
 
Tazz10m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: On the beach with girls in bikinis
Posts: 6,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by agtman View Post
Ha! Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Maybe when I retire finally, ... although I'm not sure my smarmier comments directed at exploding the myths & historical inaccuracies spread by the 10mm-haters (past & present) would survive the editor's red pen.

Then there'd be screamin'-n-yellin' on my part, et al.

But Tazz, trust me, a pic of your G29 GPCCG dead center in the article would be Exhibit #1 in demonstating just how nicely a Glock 10mm can be tailored to the suit the owner!
Oh, come on, agtman, with your knowledge and eloquence you could knock off a great article in about 10 minutes, tops. I'm sure the 10 Ringers here could provide a bunch of photo's to choose from to put in the article. And as for the editors, i'm not so sure they would cut anything out. They are desperate to get rag... ooops, i mean mag sales up and there is nothing like a little controversy to get attention with. I call it "The Madonna Effect". No matter how controversial, the bottom line is increased income. Madonna knew it, so i named it after her after she did that risque photo shoot back in the early 80's that everyone said would ruin her.

Plus, you can slip in shameless little plugs for each of the manufacturers products featured as well as a shameless little plug for GT and the worlds most exclusive club; The 10 Ring, as well as the other 10mm forums.

Maybe you could even title it; "The Extinct Dinosaur That Never Died".
__________________
Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGrip™!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

Brooks W. Speier

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Official AGrip™ Manufacturer Website

AGrip™ Installation Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



Never let anyone who is clueless about defense tell you what you can and can't do to protect yourself and others.

Μολὼν λαβέ!
Tazz10m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 14:59   #13
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 12,945


The 10mm is on our list of agency approved off duty calibers, so I wouldn't be all too worried about prosecution, even in NJ.

I was surprised to see a 10mm gun (and a Glock at that) featured in Guns And Ammo. I think it is excellent that the 10mm is still getting some recognition in the gun press, even though most of us don't agree with everything the author said. Kudos to G&A for printing it.

The 10mm is back on the rise.
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
4949shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 17:31   #14
Tazz10m
Mod Aerator
 
Tazz10m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: On the beach with girls in bikinis
Posts: 6,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4949shooter View Post
The 10mm is on our list of agency approved off duty calibers, so I wouldn't be all too worried about prosecution, even in NJ.
Learn to know weapon choice and defense better than the prosecutors, or your own attorneys, for that matter.

If we haven't learned that from the Zimmerman trial, we're lost.
__________________
Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGrip™!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

Brooks W. Speier

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Official AGrip™ Manufacturer Website

AGrip™ Installation Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



Never let anyone who is clueless about defense tell you what you can and can't do to protect yourself and others.

Μολὼν λαβέ!
Tazz10m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 22:09   #15
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 90,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by agtman View Post
Hadn't looked over the gun rags for a while, excepting the quick thumb-through I gave an issue of Rifle magazine a while back.

Today I was in an area Meijer store and I came across the Sept. 2013 issue of Guns & Ammo and just randomly picked it up to have a look.

This issue contains two, literally, back-to-back articles touching on the 10mm AUTO.

The first is a smarmy, uninformed piece by the resident G&A 10-hater talking-up the .40 at the expense of the 10mm. It's all smack on our round, apparently dead (again), while the .40 gets pumped like it's god's gift to the U.S. shooting community, L.E., etc.

Okay, whatever.

The second is a "We Shoot" G&A staff article on the 10mm Gen 4 G20. It's actually a credible write-up and is excellent on the gun itself, although the writer apparently never heard of Underwood, DT or Corbon ammo. He did hear about BB 220gn HC loads and Hornady's 165gn 10mm ammo (@ somewhere around 1200fps), both of which he put through the Gen 4 G20. No malfs whatsoever and he got great accuracy, as 10Ringers would expect. Plus his overall comments on handling, etc., were positive.

Notwithstanding the limited ammo selection used in his review, the only "downside" I noticed in his closing comments - and it's more of a quibble really - is the writer's extremely narrow view of the role of a 15+1 10mm G20. He sees it as limited to either (1) a "back-up" sidearm for hunting or (2) as an "outdoor" gun when camping, hiking, or working on horseback on the back-40 of a farm out west, etc. Neither the gun nor its cartridge, from his comments, would be his first choice for CCW, duty use, or home defense.

That, of course, misses the point of the 10mm's versatility of use. It handles ALL of these roles as well or better than other so-called "service" cartridges that are available in a hi-cap autoloading platform of reasonable size and weight. Maybe a "nit" being picked there, but overall it was a positive write-up.

Just FYI for the group.
I haven't read it, but thanks for the info.
__________________
.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 03:20   #16
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 12,945


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz10m View Post
Learn to know weapon choice and defense better than the prosecutors, or your own attorneys, for that matter.

If we haven't learned that from the Zimmerman trial, we're lost.
Not a problem here. I am familiar with the court system.
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS

Last edited by 4949shooter; 08-14-2013 at 03:27..
4949shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 11:54   #17
K1500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 169
Regarding "The .40's Still Roarin'" article, either the author, the editor, or both are idiots. According to the very first paragraph of the article, "S&W unveiled the Model .40 06..." What a goob. It was the model 4006, no period, no space.

Later on he claims the .40 case is entirely new using a small pistol primer to "reduce the chance of an accidental discharge by the ejector hitting the large pistol primer as the slide goes into battery." What an idiot. The ejector cannot hit the primer as the slide goes into battery. It is conceivable that it can hit t as the slide is manually cycled while clearing a loaded gun.

There is more, but I will stop there. It is pretty tough to take reloading advice from someone who believes the above.
K1500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 23:15   #18
Bongo Boy
Senior Member
 
Bongo Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 221
Magazine publications are pretty much obsolete for a number of reasons, and getting rapidly obsoleter. The unchecked, uninformed, non-interactive nature of the animal simply makes them nearly useless and only marginally entertaining. The publishing of bunkum, however, makes them irritating.

In any case, my dream come true would be to see just one major US manufacturer step up to the plate with just one reasonable offering--an M&P from S&W for example. Now that the technology has been well-proven and we know that a solid-steel single stack monster pistol isn't the only viable option required to platform a 10, it would be nice if just one maker would acknowledge that it's a solid cartridge that should probably take over for 45ACP for the next several decades. I think it would be fairly easy to do as well or better than Glock in this caliber and I'd really like to see that happen.

I personally feel the 40SW is a very good cartridge and is certainly got enough going for it to make it more attractive than 9mm, and I'm happy to find so much brass in 40 that I'm tripping over it at the range. But 10 can do it all, I think, and without much if any compromise. Especially where our misguided bureaucrats have succeeded in limiting capacities to 10 rds and under, the option is an ideal one, IMO.

Last edited by Bongo Boy; 08-18-2013 at 23:26..
Bongo Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 23:47   #19
ShallNotBeInfringed
NRA Business Al
 
ShallNotBeInfringed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,565
The 10mm and to some extent, it's offspring the .40, are only limited by the shooter, as all guns are.

If someone cannot drive a stick shift, it is most likely because for whatever reason, the person started driving an automatic, and just never learned.

I own smaller guns, carry other guns for CC, but nothing seems to snap like a 10 and all the rounds it holds. To get more rounds, I need to drop to 9mm. A big drop IMHO.

A .40 gives the same capacity, in a smaller frame gun in some cases. Options, the world is so full of options.

sent from my rotary wall phone
__________________
19 21 Cutaways 19 19C 20 20SF 21 21C 22C 23 23C 27 32 32C 22LR 460
31 State Concealed Carry Instructor, 32 years CC Experience, Retired FFL Dealer
NRA Benefactor Life NRA CRSO NRA instructor RSOi CPi PPITHi PPOTHi RTBAVi
ShallNotBeInfringed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 10:58   #20
nickE10mm
F.S.F.O.S.
 
nickE10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 4,297
Send a message via AIM to nickE10mm Send a message via MSN to nickE10mm Send a message via Yahoo to nickE10mm
Great thread, guys!
__________________
10 Ring #1033 - Longslide #1045 - 10mm Loader #1066

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Why do I carry a 10mm?
“Because a 9mm only kills your body… the 10mm kills your soul.”
nickE10mm is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:04.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 905
211 Members
694 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42