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Old 07-13-2013, 11:40   #151
oldman11
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Sop when your logic breaks down you stereotype and throw out baseless claims of prevarication.
Nope, just when I hear lies.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:45   #152
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Totaly irrelevant from a cold blooded logical perspective. As Joe Friday used to say, Just the fact ma'am, just the facts".
Joe never said that.

http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/dragnet.asp

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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
That's pure conjecture. He could have been running and hiding which would be consistent with running and trying to hide from a stalker.

Martin broke no laws that would justify Zimmerman stalking and confronting him. It's not a matter of whither I like or dislike Martin or Zimmerman. It's a matter of the law. It's the, "liberty and justice for all" thing. I suspect many of you would be on the other side of the conversation if it had been a black man stalking your wife in the night.

How do you know Zimmerman confronted Martin, and not the other way around. I think that is pure conjecture too.
Unless you have any witness statements that support Zimmerman confronting Martin.

The one thing this case has, is lots and lots of people using copious amounts of brain Spackle to paint a picture to their liking.

I honestly don't know what happened from the moment the two guys were aware of each other, until the shot was fired. Only Zimmerman knows for sure, if his memory is straight. Adrenalin has a way of messing with your memory.

We don't know if Zimmerman had Martin cornered, but that's hard to imagine on a sidewalk. We don't know who approached who, we don't know who closed within arms length of the other. We don't know who initiated physical contact. We don't know if Martin made a verbal threat of death to Zimmerman.

Is that enough to rise to the level of a reasonable doubt to convict? We all have our own answers, and a lot of us will disagree with the verdict.


Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 07-13-2013 at 11:58..
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:03   #153
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It happens when the cheetah comes in the water after the hippo. Most cheetahs aren't that stupid.
That's no way to talk about poor Comrade Zero's son. So terribly judgmental, why I'm pretty sure that T-Ray was on the dean's list. Or was that the Miami-Dade Sheriff's list? I forget.

Say, I've been meaning to ask... How come not one of the many thousands of young black men--gunned down by other black men subsequent to the Immaculation of the Secular Humanist Messiah--resemble Comrade Zero enough to be thought of as his son? Comrade Zero lived in ****cago for decades; doesn't it stand to reason that at least one of 'Dead Fish' Emanuel's croaked hood-rats could be Comrade Zero's boy? Have they no uppity white-Hispanics in ****cago? You know they say the fruit don't fall far from de A.C.O.R.N. tree. Perhaps there is a baby mama in ****cago needin' justice too. N'est-ce pas?

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Old 07-13-2013, 12:05   #154
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One was a gang want to be looser and one is an overzealous cop want to be. Both were/are a waste of good oxygen.
and, herein, lies the truth.
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:48   #155
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That's pure conjecture. He could have been running and hiding which would be consistent with running and trying to hide from a stalker.

Martin broke no laws that would justify Zimmerman stalking and confronting him. It's not a matter of whither I like or dislike Martin or Zimmerman. It's a matter of the law. It's the, "liberty and justice for all" thing. I suspect many of you would be on the other side of the conversation if it had been a black man stalking your wife in the night.
Zimmerman was surveilling Martin, not stalking him.

Also, why didn't Martin run home after he knocked Zimmerman to the ground?
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Old 07-13-2013, 13:04   #156
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Zimmerman was surveilling Martin, not stalking him.

Also, why didn't Martin run home after he knocked Zimmerman to the ground?
to be fair, he got shot in the heart...

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Old 07-13-2013, 13:23   #157
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Originally Posted by G17Jake View Post
Zimmerman was surveilling Martin, not stalking him.

Also, why didn't Martin run home after he knocked Zimmerman to the ground?
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to be fair, he got shot in the heart...

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I think you misunderstood. Zimmerman's account is that Martin approached him and asked something like "do you have a problem", Zimmerman supposedly said no, Martin supposedly said you do now, and punched him in the nose, breaking it, and knocking Zimmerman to the ground.

The question is, why didn't he leave after he punched him the first time.

Martin was not shot, according to Zimmerman and the eye witness, until after Martin climbed on top of him and was beating his head into the sidewalk while fighting.


I guess it all depends on whether you believe Zimmerman, the eye witness, or your own imagination.
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Old 07-13-2013, 14:43   #158
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I think you misunderstood. Zimmerman's account is that Martin approached him and asked something like "do you have a problem", Zimmerman supposedly said no, Martin supposedly said you do now, and punched him in the nose, breaking it, and knocking Zimmerman to the ground.

The question is, why didn't he leave after he punched him the first time.

Martin was not shot, according to Zimmerman and the eye witness, until after Martin climbed on top of him and was beating his head into the sidewalk while fighting.


I guess it all depends on whether you believe Zimmerman, the eye witness, or your own imagination.
Thank you...
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Old 07-13-2013, 14:51   #159
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Me thinks we have a hung jury........
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Old 07-13-2013, 15:54   #160
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At some point doesn't TVM had a right to stand his ground if he felt threatened? Maybe he saw GZ reach for his gun.

Is this a regrettable confluence of events where two frightened people both were reacting in self defense?

GZ testified with his video and interviews. He testified with his 911 calls.

The few times I've sat on juries, guilty or not guilty came down to who I believed. True these were not murder trials... but I still took it seriously and considered the consequences my decision carried.

GZ admitted reaching for his "cell phone" and then was attacked.

Really! GZ wants us to believe after just after finishing a conversation with 911, the watchman seeking out information on when/where the police, relaying information when/where the subject, seeking an address, the subject he had pursued, that he would have put his cell phone back into his pocket? REALLY?

Don't forget... the investigator told him that it was all on video... so the phone was near his weapon... Really! REALLY?

I just don't find GZ's story credible...

If he is found not guilty that would be unfortunate.

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Old 07-13-2013, 17:21   #161
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At some point doesn't TVM had a right to stand his ground if he felt threatened? Maybe he saw GZ reach for his gun.
Certainly. Also, if he wouldacouldashoulda he kindasortamighta. All anyone would need to do is produce a single scrap of evidence that would meet the reasonable standard that he felt his life was in imminent danger.

No one has been able to do so, and none of the physical evidence points to such conjecture.

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Old 07-13-2013, 17:32   #162
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At some point doesn't TVM had a right to stand his ground if he felt threatened? Maybe he saw GZ reach for his gun.

Is this a regrettable confluence of events where two frightened people both were reacting in self defense?

GZ testified with his video and interviews. He testified with his 911 calls.

The few times I've sat on juries, guilty or not guilty came down to who I believed. True these were not murder trials... but I still took it seriously and considered the consequences my decision carried.

GZ admitted reaching for his "cell phone" and then was attacked.

Really! GZ wants us to believe after just after finishing a conversation with 911, the watchman seeking out information on when/where the police, relaying information when/where the subject, seeking an address, the subject he had pursued, that he would have put his cell phone back into his pocket? REALLY?

Don't forget... the investigator told him that it was all on video... so the phone was near his weapon... Really! REALLY?

I just don't find GZ's story credible...

If he is found not guilty that would be unfortunate.
I think you have used more than your fair share of brain spackle there.

I have a lot of doubt. So might just one juror.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes down. I'm surprised that there is not at least one man on the jury.
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Old 07-13-2013, 17:53   #163
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\....... I'm surprised that there is not at least one man on the jury.
Yeah, a jury of his peers. Not.
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Old 07-13-2013, 18:40   #164
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These are the real choices Zimmerman had. Zimmerman was following Martin in a car. Then he got out with a loaded handgun and approached Martin. Zimmerman had the option of waiting for the police. He choose not to. Martin didn't have that option. Are you saying Martin should have waited for the police while a stranger who had been aggressively stalking him in the night closed the distance to arms length.
You obviously haven't watched the evidence presented in the trial, or you choose to use you're telepathic skills to determine what happened. You also don't seem to be able to read what I said and comprehend what I said...or your not willing.

Any way, since you cearly possess some superior cognizant powers to mine, I will defer to you sir. I can only make decisions on facts that clearly presented reasonable doubt of the speculative story the stae tried to sell in this case.
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Old 07-13-2013, 20:11   #165
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I rest my case. Time for a beer.
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Old 07-13-2013, 20:21   #166
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Not guilty. Yet another sad day in Obamaville. LMMFAO
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Old 07-13-2013, 20:59   #167
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Not guilty. Yet another sad day in Obamaville. LMMFAO
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Old 07-14-2013, 05:37   #168
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You never know what a jury will do. As in the O.J. case, juries can reach the wrong decision. This case has set a dangerous precedent. Years ago Charles Murray (The Bell Curve), said that the white working class and middle class was going to get fed up and start using the same tactics they had been watching the black community using (i.e., rioting, looting, mob violence). He went on to say that the civil unrest when that started happening would be unlike anything we have seen. The verdict in this case gives vigilantes a free pass. Given the apparent inability of the police to control black mob violence, that's understandable. That's not a racists statement. It's a cold blooded assessment of the attitudes of many people in this country. In a country where all states have the right to carry, at least theoretically, these may be interesting times. For decades the white community has been content to let the justice system deal with black on white crime. Those days may be coming to an end. The right to carry may become the necessity to carry. Where the middle class and working class community has traditionally sought to defend itself, it may go on the offensive. The problem with vigilante justice is that it often gets out of control and the innocent get punished along with guilt. Good luck Florida. Good luck to the rest of us as well.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:45   #169
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You never know what a jury will do. As in the O.J. case, juries can reach the wrong decision. This case has set a dangerous precedent. Years ago Charles Murray (The Bell Curve), said that the white working class and middle class was going to get fed up and start using the same tactics they had been watching the black community using (i.e., rioting, looting, mob violence). He went on to say that the civil unrest when that started happening would be unlike anything we have seen. The verdict in this case gives vigilantes a free pass. Given the apparent inability of the police to control black mob violence, that's understandable. That's not a racists statement. It's a cold blooded assessment of the attitudes of many people in this country. In a country where all states have the right to carry, at least theoretically, these may be interesting times. For decades the white community has been content to let the justice system deal with black on white crime. Those days may be coming to an end. The right to carry may become the necessity to carry. Where the middle class and working class community has traditionally sought to defend itself, it may go on the offensive. The problem with vigilante justice is that it often gets out of control and the innocent get punished along with guilt. Good luck Florida. Good luck to the rest of us as well.
Free pass? Free pass to do what? I've not heard anyone on the Zimmerman side calling for violence, riots, unrest.

Here's the thing. The law should be written to protect the innocent. Here in Texas, if I look out my window, and see someone breaking into my truck, I can grab my gun, chase them two miles down the road, and use deadly force to reclaim my property. I can also walk up behind them and shoot them dead without so much as a verbal warning. Now, that's not the smart thing to do, as the deductible on my insurance is a heck of a lot cheaper than a ride through the court system, and I've never enjoyed hurting people. My charity stops at my front door though. Then, the cost benefit ratio changes.

I'm not a guy that ever wants to see anyone shot, ever again. I've seen way more of that kind of stuff to ever have any curiosity left. But, the law should be written to cover me if I should ever have to, and I would REALLY have to shoot someone before I would do it. I'll have my gun on me though, just to keep my options open.

The evidence presented, the witnesses, the totality of everything I have read so far in this case makes me think the verdict is correct. That being said, it seems to me both of these gentlemen had an ability to avoid this tragedy. But at some point, it became a situation where martin, a much larger guy......

Political Issues

.....was pounding Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk. If the testimony, and the injury pattern on Zimmerman are to be believed, Martin gave Zimmerman the legal justification to shoot him. How they got there seems to be a shared blame, but at that moment, one of them was going to lose a high stakes fight. I'm not happy about the outcome of that fight. It was avoidable, and tragic. But the legal issue was correctly decided, if what was presented in court was an accurate depiction of events.



Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Considering the emotional investment so many people have in this case, I'd predict that Martin won't be the last person to die because of that fight. It isn't over just yet.

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Old 07-14-2013, 06:47   #170
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The verdict in this case gives vigilantes a free pass.
You must be trying to re-define "vigilante" as someone laying on his back while his head is repeatedly being slammed on the sidewalk by a thug.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:54   #171
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You must be trying to re-define "vigilante" as someone laying on his back while his head is repeatedly being slammed on the sidewalk by a thug.
zing.
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:19   #172
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:54   #173
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This is from Fox news just a few minutes ago.

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WTF?


Political Issues
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:50   #174
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They are already pimping the Andrea Sniederman case...

Dancing on the grave of the dead and laughing all the way to the bank...
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:25   #175
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Interesting...
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You never know what a jury will do. As in the O.J. case, juries can reach the wrong decision.
I've heard last night and this morning different people offer various "mistakes" made, mostly by the prosecution, that led to the jurors' "wrong decision".

What mistakes do you see leading up to that "wrong decision"?
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This case has set a dangerous precedent.
What precedent? Well, you answer with this...
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The verdict in this case gives vigilantes a free pass.
I'd accuse you of ignorance, but since you tout yourself as an educated man, I'll not.

Have you not read the Neighborhood Watch side of this story? Have you not read about the number of Watch organizations that now forbid any person on watch carrying deadly weapons? Have you not read of the restructuring of Watch Groups to include police advisers at monthly meetings? Have you not read about the Neighborhood Watch groups who have gone to their local law enforcement agencies asking for more patrols during high crime times, instead of placing Watch members in possible situations similar to Zimmerman?

The local dialogues before the verdict, from right after the shooting, have been about preemptive actions to avoid another such situation.

You, sir are the one using this case to plant the seed with the ultra-fringe "vigilantes".

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