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Old 07-13-2013, 12:18   #1
avery53
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Seen Results of a Ka-Boom

I saw a fellow at our local club today that had his hand all bandaged up. There were other smaller cuts and scratches too.
I overheard him saying he had double charged some 45 cases that caused the Ka-boom.
He was saying it was a Glock, don't know the model.

He said he has been reloading for more than 20 years, and was very surprised it happened to him, because he is so careful.

Just a reminder to all us reloaders to pay attention, it can happen.

avery
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Old 07-13-2013, 13:19   #2
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Pay attention to the highlighted text. The majority of KB's are traced to non-factory or overcharged ammo. Just because you can, does not mean you should. Stick within the conservative specs of the gun.

Other guns warn you not to use +P or +P+



Quote:
Originally Posted by avery53 View Post
I saw a fellow at our local club today that had his hand all bandaged up. There were other smaller cuts and scratches too.
I overheard him saying he had double charged some 45 cases that caused the Ka-boom.
He was saying it was a Glock, don't know the model.

He said he has been reloading for more than 20 years, and was very surprised it happened to him, because he is so careful.

Just a reminder to all us reloaders to pay attention, it can happen.

avery
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Old 07-13-2013, 13:49   #3
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Originally Posted by cciman View Post
pay attention to the highlighted text. The majority of kb's are traced to non-factory or overcharged ammo. Just because you can, does not mean you should. Stick within the conservative specs of the gun.

Other guns warn you not to use +p or +p+
great advise...
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Old 07-13-2013, 13:52   #4
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Originally Posted by cciman View Post
Pay attention to the highlighted text. The majority of KB's are traced to non-factory or overcharged ammo. Just because you can, does not mean you should. Stick within the conservative specs of the gun.

Other guns warn you not to use +P or +P+
I have used 115gr JHP +p+ for years in my G17 with no problems at all.
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Old 07-13-2013, 15:53   #5
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Too light loads in big cases can cause kabooms and case failures as well. The pressure peaks almost immediately in a very fast and in a extremely sharp pressure curve, which can cause the barrel to burst because the barrel steel has no time to expand a tiny bit, it just starts to crack instead. The pressure curve in a normal charged round peaks slower and in a nice curve. Overcharged and double loads cause not always kabooms and case failures, because it takes longer to ignite all that powder, the preassure curve in a overcharge is higher but longer which spreads the overpressure over a longer period of time which is a little easier on the barrel than a too light charge. It depends alot on the caliber.

I'd say he either had a squib load and fired a normal powered round in the butt of the squibed projetile, or a undercharged round caused his kaboom.

Last edited by Made in Austria; 07-13-2013 at 16:15..
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Old 07-13-2013, 16:39   #6
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I did not get all the details, as he had a group around him all asking questions.
He clearly stated that it was double charged cases. I'm sure he must have pulled his remaining rounds apart and checked, I know I would have.
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Old 07-13-2013, 17:31   #7
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I have used 115gr JHP +p+ for years in my G17 with no problems at all.
How many rounds of the stuff would you estimate you have shot through it?
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Old 07-13-2013, 18:15   #8
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Glocks are more susceptible to case failures than other pistols because of the slightly unsupported chambers of some of the models.This is why Glock specifically tells you not to use overcharged or extremely hot loads. This same chamber is part of the reason that Glocks eat just about all ammo flawlessly like a garbage disposal where other brands will malfunction with the same ammo. Many things in life are a trade off. This is one of them. If you want to double charge rounds, or use +P+ ammo in your Glock, be prepared to suffer the consequences if you end up being one of the unlucky ones to have a catastrophic failure or kaboom as it is called.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes seems to ft he description perfectly here.
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Old 07-13-2013, 18:34   #9
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Glocks are more susceptible to case failures than other pistols because of the slightly unsupported chambers of some of the models.This is why Glock specifically tells you not to use overcharged or extremely hot loads. This same chamber is part of the reason that Glocks eat just about all ammo flawlessly like a garbage disposal where other brands will malfunction with the same ammo. Many things in life are a trade off. This is one of them. If you want to double charge rounds, or use +P+ ammo in your Glock, be prepared to suffer the consequences if you end up being one of the unlucky ones to have a catastrophic failure or kaboom as it is called.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes seems to ft he description perfectly here.

Total BS. Glocks will eat +p+ ammo all day. No barrel will survive an over charge/double charge intact all the time. I have fired thousands of +p+ 9mm through Glocks & never had a problem nor seen. Get your facts straight, Chief. Glock has told customers since Day 1 in the mid 80's that their gun will take any NATO and +p+ 9mm.
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Old 07-13-2013, 18:37   #10
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
Glocks are more susceptible to case failures than other pistols
because of the slightly unsupported chambers of some of the models.
Out of date information. Glock has corrected the design
of the barrels of "some of the models"


General Glocking
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Old 07-13-2013, 19:23   #11
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I don't have a problem with the unsupported barrels. If you or the factory over charge a case the over pressure has to go some where. I much rather have the pressure and hot gases directed down the magazine well. I don't like the idea of a slide blowing back into my face or the gun blowing up in my hand. The worst kaboom I'm familiar with was a Rem 1100 on the skeet range. The bolt didn't lock-up and when the women fires the shotgun the bolt went through the back of the receiver. She survived but was severely permanently disfigured and blind in one eye.
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Old 07-13-2013, 19:36   #12
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Faulty ammo is usually old brass,a heavy load and a glock that has a worn rsa. I watched a 27 blow with amerc ammo and a worn rsa. Ive had no trouble with heavy loads in a glock, its what they work best with.
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Old 07-13-2013, 19:47   #13
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Total BS. Glocks will eat +p+ ammo all day... ...I have fired thousands of +p+ 9mm through Glocks & never had a problem nor seen. Get your facts straight, Chief. Glock has told customers since Day 1 in the mid 80's that their gun will take any NATO and +p+ 9mm.
NATO, +P, and +P+ are mutually exclusive. NATO and SAMMI are actual standards and listed in the Glock instruction manual as having safe "specifications". There are NO SAMMI specifications for +P and +P+ - but if there were, we would see velocities and pressures higher than that of NATO - already a hot load.

This is addressed in part, under "reloads" in Glock's most recent instruction manual where it calls for shooting ammo where standards are adhered to, and meeting SAMI (sic)/NATO specifications.

Gentlemen, look it up yourselves on page 15, in red, of the Rev 3/11 Instructions for Use. The manual should be easy to find - it will be in your Glock box in a still-sealed white envelope.
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Old 07-13-2013, 19:52   #14
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Originally Posted by avery53 View Post
I saw a fellow at our local club today that had his hand all bandaged up. There were other smaller cuts and scratches too.
I overheard him saying he had double charged some 45 cases that caused the Ka-boom.
He was saying it was a Glock, don't know the model.

He said he has been reloading for more than 20 years, and was very surprised it happened to him, because he is so careful.

Just a reminder to all us reloaders to pay attention, it can happen.

avery
Ouch!

It only takes a split second loss of focus. The 45ACP case can hold a bunch of powder.
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Old 07-13-2013, 20:04   #15
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...It only takes a split second loss of focus. The 45ACP case can hold a bunch of powder.
I think I can get right around a pound of VV N320 in a .45 case - but that's what I use right now.
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Old 07-13-2013, 20:32   #16
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This oft discussed problem is multifactorial. Stop looking at the least likely factor.

Sure you could have smoked Camels all your life then live into your 80's, but you can also win money in a casino -- but his is not the norm, nor sustainable over a large sample. As a reloader, you may never have a KB, but then again, it can happen tomorrow.

What is clear is the result, and the most common factor = reload ammo or non-factory ammo, be it overloaded or otherwise. There is no clear way to keep track of how many cycles a brass case has gone through. Maybe the case in question was on its 20th reload.

Frequent Common denominator in most KB's = atypical ammo (reload, or something different)

Last edited by cciman; 07-14-2013 at 00:35..
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Old 07-13-2013, 20:35   #17
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Hey, ok I'm gonna ask this in the open forum, but well I'm still a little gun shy with alot of those out there.

My Glock is a 2gen 17 9mm. I thought ALL glocks shot .45gap, not .45acp. I did not know this til I just did some research.

I load, 200g lead fp, with 700x @ 5.1g, oal 1.205-1.21"

That is about .2g less than max, and it almost fills the cartridge half way, on a .45 acp.

I SIT AND STARE AT THE OPENING WHEN I FILL POWDER, so that i still see half the cartridge is empty.

I look for the same thing everytime, the mark from the die opening the top of the cartridge down about 3/16" and then a smaller gap of about 1/8" to the powder.

About every 5 loads it gets weighed, on a powder scale in grains, and then also on an battery powered grain scale.

So far so good.

Thanks for your indulgence and time.

Chuck
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Old 07-13-2013, 20:36   #18
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The more carefully you smoke your Camels, the less likely your risk of cancer, lung disease or heart disease....yeah right.
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Old 07-13-2013, 20:47   #19
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commercial machines and robots do not lose focus. The risk is much smaller than a human reloading while watching TV, or listening to the radio.

Are they perfect-- No, but the statistical rate of imperfection is much lower than someone multitasking, making reloads.

Let's face it-- the majority of reloaders do it to save money, not that they can do it better


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Ouch!

It only takes a split second loss of focus. The 45ACP case can hold a bunch of powder.
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Old 07-13-2013, 21:02   #20
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Originally Posted by cciman View Post
...Let's face it-- the majority of reloaders do it to save money, not that they can do it better
Personally, I don't give a stich about saving money. I'm a competitor and began reloading to fine tune accurate ammo to the discipline and the gun.
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Old 07-13-2013, 21:09   #21
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Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
Out of date information. Glock has corrected the design
of the barrels of "some of the models"


General Glocking
I never saw the need for their unsupported chambers. It would not be hard to name a dozen pistols that have fully supported chambers that are 100% reliable.
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Old 07-13-2013, 21:23   #22
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Yes of course. So if a gun blows up in your hand, it must be the guns fault because there is NO other possible explanation. And that applies to every reloader out there in the world.



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Personally, I don't give a stich about saving money. I'm a competitor and began reloading to fine tune accurate ammo to the discipline and the gun.
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Old 07-13-2013, 21:36   #23
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Yes of course. So if a gun blows up in your hand, it must be the guns fault because there is NO other possible explanation. And that applies to every reloader out there in the world.
You are nearly assuming that it's only a matter of when, not if. I may not be like "every reloader out there in the world". Based on my reason for getting started in reloading, and that I use premium components and equipment, you can see that my goal is quality, not cheap quantity. Still, one should never get complacent - or distracted.
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Old 07-13-2013, 22:46   #24
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Out of date information. Glock has corrected the design
of the barrels of "some of the models"


General Glocking
So all the Glocks that came with chambers that weren't fully supported magically got supported barrels when Glock finally fixed the issue? Weird. My G30 and G19 must not have gotten the memo that they are now supposed to have a fully supported chamber in the barrel as both are still missing metal in that area. Do note that the OP never specified the age of the pistol in question so an unsupported chamber along with the overloaded round could have easily contributed to the failure.

Last edited by Roger1079; 07-14-2013 at 06:42..
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Old 07-13-2013, 22:58   #25
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Yes of course. So if a gun blows up in your hand, it must be the guns fault because there is NO other possible explanation. And that applies to every reloader out there in the world.
Exactly! The double charged round couldn't have played any part in it.
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