GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-13-2013, 04:11   #26
TxGlock9
2014 RACE TIME!
 
TxGlock9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BMT, TX
Posts: 4,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
Just because something is made in Germany doesn't somehow make it magical and better than everything else on the planet.

Vertrauen Sie mir, ich bin deutsch, und ich weiß.
:clicks boot heels: Heil!
__________________
My name is John
TxGlock9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 04:20   #27
TxGlock9
2014 RACE TIME!
 
TxGlock9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BMT, TX
Posts: 4,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock40man View Post
If you want something different, take a look at the CZ P-01.

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-p01/
Ive always known about CZ's but never shot any of them before. Never heard anything bad about them. Don't wanna just splurge on a pistol and have it disappoint... Any other insights of the pistol? you own one?
__________________
My name is John
TxGlock9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 04:31   #28
Larry V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Solon Ohio , Suburb of Cleveland
Posts: 1,279
Send a message via Yahoo to Larry V
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxGlock9 View Post
that's what I meant the M11 A1.. The more I read about them the more i'm convinced that they are not worth it and that rather getting a P229 NON railed 9mm with SRT is the better choice for me.


I bought the W. German P228 9mm for my father. It's his baby. lol

I love my Non Rail SRT P229
Larry V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 05:17   #29
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
Just because something is made in Germany doesn't somehow make it magical and better than everything else on the planet.

Vertrauen Sie mir, ich bin deutsch, und ich weiß.
Actually, good old American built 1911s are my favorite handguns on Earth.

I never said the American Sigs were bad guns, I just don't like them. There's quite a few guns I don't like. I like guns built in their original country of origin. In the case of Sig, I like the balance and feel of the stamped steel slides over the stainless. I also don't buy metal frames guns with rails. Never have never will...

These are my preferences and I don't expect most people to share them or agree with them.

If people think the M11A1, stainelss P226, and stainless P220 are "improvements" over the carbon steel P228, P226, and P220, more power to them.

I own quite a few, but stainless guns were never really my thing in the first place. I prefer carbon steel 10 to 1 over stainless, whether we're talking revolvers, 1911s, or otherwise.
__________________
.

1911 Buyer's Guide

Last edited by bac1023; 07-13-2013 at 05:34..
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 07:07   #30
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxGlock9 View Post
i'm just looking for a nice mid size 9mm. I have all the glocks I need so looking at this one.
How about a nice Browning Hi Power? They are generally considered full size pistols, but are smaller than most.
__________________
.

1911 Buyer's Guide
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 07:19   #31
s&wfan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 624
The dumbest thing I ever did in my gun owning life was let a W German P220 go.
s&wfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 07:28   #32
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by s&wfan View Post
The dumbest thing I ever did in my gun owning life was let a W German P220 go.
Yeah, I love the P220. I've got one in 9mm from 1983.

It was Sig Sauer's first pistol and a much cheaper to produce alternative to the Sig P210.
__________________
.

1911 Buyer's Guide

Last edited by bac1023; 07-13-2013 at 07:29..
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 07:51   #33
datatech2550
Senior Member
 
datatech2550's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DFW
Posts: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by s&wfan View Post
The dumbest thing I ever did in my gun owning life was let a W German P220 go.
__________________
Experience is what you always have about 15 minuets after you needed it.
datatech2550 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 08:09   #34
datatech2550
Senior Member
 
datatech2550's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DFW
Posts: 355
My 229 weighs 904g / 31.9oz. My German 220 793g / 28oz.

The full size folded slide is lighter than the compact with the stainless slide! No wonder I prefer to carry the P220.

Don't get me wrong, the 229 is great, I just prefer the older carbon steel slides.
__________________
Experience is what you always have about 15 minuets after you needed it.
datatech2550 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 08:14   #35
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by datatech2550 View Post
My 229 weighs 904g / 31.9oz. My German 220 793g / 28oz.

The full size folded slide is lighter than the compact with the stainless slide! No wonder I prefer to carry the P220.

Don't get me wrong, the 229 is great, I just prefer the older carbon steel slides.
Exactly my feelings. That weight difference in the slide makes the pistols feel quite a bit different. Whether you like the new or old, they are different.
__________________
.

1911 Buyer's Guide
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 08:42   #36
SigFTW
Senior Member
 
SigFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 2,155
I like them both, German and American made, I like stainless and carbon steel, I like rail and non-rail. I do like the feel of a heavier gun better than a lighter gun, but that just me.

I do have an appreciation of the classic German Sig's. Just think of it this way, if Colt brought back the Python line would it make the older Pythons undesirable? heck no! It would still be more desirable that the newer ones, just like the German Sigs.
__________________
Spent brass to me is like the ring to Gollum "We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious"
SigFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 08:56   #37
Beanie-Bean
Senior Member
 
Beanie-Bean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
It's a really nice gun. It's more of a 229 than a 228 but that makes it even better! As far as a answer to your wondering why Sig went with the thin trigger standard. I'd say it's because there are more of us with small paws than large ones!


As far as American Sig's go, I'd say they are certainly the better made ones. The German ones are nice, don't get me wrong. The American guns have a lot of design improvements built in and are just built better in many ways. I know that's going to cause some butt hurt but that's my two cents.

It is a nice gun, for sure. Not a fan of the beveled 229-1 magazines, but the old 228/229 magazines will work in a pinch.

Regarding the short-reach trigger, I get that, and I understand that it makes shooting a much better/easier experience. Because of my hands, the E2 grip/short-reach trigger configuration makes for a tough DA shot for me. My trigger finger constantly gets pinched--I don't have that issue when shooting with non-E2 grips/short trigger, as on my P220 Extreme.

Regarding country of origin, short/long extractor, etc., the grips and trigger are something which definitely affect how I feel about certain SIG Sauer pistols. I've got both, and I really like how the older German models feel, but will not hesitate to bring along an Exeter model to the range for some fun, either.

My favorite out of all my SIGs would have to be the M11-A1, because it runs really well for me. Same thing with the H&Ks I've been shooting lately--the HK45c has been my most accurate and fun to shoot over the past few range trips. Although I like the P30 and HK45 spider-man grips, I've had better performance using the HK45c. Perhaps more range time with the spideys are in order. Sorry for changing the subject...
__________________
NRA Life Member
Ammo by Dillon and Hornady

Beanie-Bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 14:27   #38
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 8,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxGlock9 View Post
:clicks boot heels: Heil!
__________________
When we do hit it we hit it out of the park and send it over to China as quickly as possible to cheapen it and sell it.
NEOH212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 14:37   #39
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 8,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
Actually, good old American built 1911s are my favorite handguns on Earth.

I never said the American Sigs were bad guns, I just don't like them. There's quite a few guns I don't like. I like guns built in their original country of origin. In the case of Sig, I like the balance and feel of the stamped steel slides over the stainless. I also don't buy metal frames guns with rails. Never have never will...

These are my preferences and I don't expect most people to share them or agree with them.

If people think the M11A1, stainelss P226, and stainless P220 are "improvements" over the carbon steel P228, P226, and P220, more power to them.

I own quite a few, but stainless guns were never really my thing in the first place. I prefer carbon steel 10 to 1 over stainless, whether we're talking revolvers, 1911s, or otherwise.
For collectors I can see the country of origin being a issue and I agree in that respect. Also for the collector, I can understand a gun in it's original configuration being more desirable.

I agree 100% on the rail thing. I think they should all be available with and without. I much prefer my 229's with no rail over the one I had with the rail. I think it just looks better and I'd never want a light on this size of gun anyhow.

The stamped slide guns certainly had a different balance to them and it seems like the original 228 felt a bit different in my hands. I'm not sure if it had a smaller grip or not?

For me, when I purchase a gun I look for long term durability and serviceability. This isn't to say the stamped slide guns weren't durable. I am saying however the one piece slides have less parts. Less parts means less things to maintain and less things to break.

As far as stainless versus carbon steel, carbon has the overall strength while stainless has the corrosion resistance. I can't think of any failures of the stainless slides due to strength issues. I can count several issues with the carbon steel stamped slides having issues including failures. (This isn't to say stainless slides can't or don't fail because it does happen.)

While rare, it's enough for me to avoid them all together. Again, that's not to say they're junk as I'm willing to bet most of those failures were ammunition and maintenance related and not a direct result of the materials or engineering.

In the end, all are small issues and aren't anything to loose sleep over. Each design change has their inherent strengths and weaknesses as we each have our own preferences.
__________________
When we do hit it we hit it out of the park and send it over to China as quickly as possible to cheapen it and sell it.

Last edited by NEOH212; 07-13-2013 at 14:39..
NEOH212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 14:43   #40
TxGlock9
2014 RACE TIME!
 
TxGlock9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BMT, TX
Posts: 4,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoh212 View Post

in the end, all are small issues and aren't anything to loose sleep over. Each design change has their inherent strengths and weaknesses as we each have our own preferences.
+1 spoken like a true dictator!
__________________
My name is John

Last edited by TxGlock9; 07-13-2013 at 14:44..
TxGlock9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 15:50   #41
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,136
Well said Neoh

Rails should definitely be optional. Sig even ruined (in my opinion) the German X-Series guns because of the rail.
__________________
.

1911 Buyer's Guide

Last edited by bac1023; 07-13-2013 at 16:11..
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 23:54   #42
TxGlock9
2014 RACE TIME!
 
TxGlock9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BMT, TX
Posts: 4,561
So I went to a local academy today and held the M11. They're policy is they can't take off the trigger lock so I couldn't dry fire it, but the balance of the pistol surprised me. Seemed pretty tough made as well. Compared to the P229 40sw I had it's not so top heavy.. Now to find one I can fire. ugh..

Mike where do you live again? lol
__________________
My name is John
TxGlock9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 00:39   #43
Glock40man
Senior Member
 
Glock40man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxGlock9 View Post
So I went to a local academy today and held the M11. They're policy is they can't take off the trigger lock so I couldn't dry fire it, but the balance of the pistol surprised me. Seemed pretty tough made as well. Compared to the P229 40sw I had it's not so top heavy.. Now to find one I can fire. ugh..
I wouldn't like not being able to dry fire a pistol that I probably would buy. Well, Sig doesn't make junk. So, I'd say if they are the only shop in your area and, its what you want......
__________________
________________________
.... you put a whole new shine on the word overkill. "When you need it, and don't have it.... you sing a different tune."- M. Gross

Last edited by Glock40man; 07-14-2013 at 00:41..
Glock40man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 00:45   #44
TxGlock9
2014 RACE TIME!
 
TxGlock9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BMT, TX
Posts: 4,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock40man View Post
I wouldn't like not being able to dry fire a pistol that I probably would buy. Well, Sig doesn't make junk. So, I'd say if they are the only shop in your area and, its what you want......
It's not a huge deal because I've had my share of many Sigs; so I am familiar with how the trigger will be. Now if it was a different pistol that I had no knowledge of such as the CZ P01 then maybe I'd be bummed.

Glock40man. I think I'm going to take the plunge and buy the M11 A1 to accompany the W. German P228 that I have. Like I said I was surprised at the balance of the pistol. It is not top heavy as the P229 counterpart. Now the hardship of finding ammo. That's going to be the hard part. Thanks for the help on the CZ.
__________________
My name is John
TxGlock9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 01:22   #45
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 54,772


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock40man View Post
I wouldn't like not being able to dry fire a pistol that I probably would buy. Well, Sig doesn't make junk. So, I'd say if they are the only shop in your area and, its what you want......
SIG doesn't make junk?

I wish that the 556 owners; especially the 7.62x39 owners, can believe that statement.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 02:05   #46
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 8,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
Well said Neoh

Rails should definitely be optional. Sig even ruined (in my opinion) the German X-Series guns because of the rail.
I really like the X series but the deal breaker for me was the rail too!
__________________
When we do hit it we hit it out of the park and send it over to China as quickly as possible to cheapen it and sell it.
NEOH212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 02:20   #47
TxGlock9
2014 RACE TIME!
 
TxGlock9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BMT, TX
Posts: 4,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
I really like the X series but the deal breaker for me was the rail too!
The X series is a whole another ballpark for me. For what it is I don't mind the rail. As for the other P-series Sig, no rail is the way to go for me.
__________________
My name is John
TxGlock9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 02:30   #48
Glock40man
Senior Member
 
Glock40man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
SIG doesn't make junk?

I wish that the 556 owners; especially the 7.62x39 owners, can believe that statement.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Yeah, I didn't think about the 556. But, then again we were discussing Sig pistols. I think its safe to say that almost every company has had some issues. Speaking of things that shouldn't exist, the rainbow finish comes to mind.
__________________
________________________
.... you put a whole new shine on the word overkill. "When you need it, and don't have it.... you sing a different tune."- M. Gross
Glock40man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 02:37   #49
Glock40man
Senior Member
 
Glock40man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxGlock9 View Post
It's not a huge deal because I've had my share of many Sigs; so I am familiar with how the trigger will be. Now if it was a different pistol that I had no knowledge of such as the CZ P01 then maybe I'd be bummed.

Glock40man. I think I'm going to take the plunge and buy the M11 A1 to accompany the W. German P228 that I have. Like I said I was surprised at the balance of the pistol. It is not top heavy as the P229 counterpart. Now the hardship of finding ammo. That's going to be the hard part. Thanks for the help on the CZ.
No problem.

Let us know how the Sig does at the range.
__________________
________________________
.... you put a whole new shine on the word overkill. "When you need it, and don't have it.... you sing a different tune."- M. Gross
Glock40man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 03:16   #50
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock40man View Post
Yeah, I didn't think about the 556. But, then again we were discussing Sig pistols. I think its safe to say that almost every company has had some issues. Speaking of things that shouldn't exist, the rainbow finish comes to mind.
I don't like any of Sig's goofy color schemes.
__________________
.

1911 Buyer's Guide
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:28.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,237
367 Members
870 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42