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Old 07-06-2013, 22:12   #26
NEOH212
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Ha Ha Deanna,
I knew you would come around to my way of thinking...
I'm not ashamed to admit it! I like to keep a opened mind but I like to prove things to myself before I'll call it a fact.

In this case, I most certainly agree!

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Old 07-06-2013, 22:16   #27
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Whenever I've spoken with reps, sales folks & armorer instructors from some of the big gun companies, and the subject of .45 ammo comes up, it's been quite common to hear that their customer input (both LE & non-LE) indicates that standard pressure 230gr loads are the most popular selling loads, overall, with lighter bullet weights and +P running significantly behind, sales-wise.
I am not talking about all .45 acp ammo (FMJ range ammo included); I am only talking about defensive hollow points. Neither am I talking about LE. Nor am I talking about the hollow points that people shoot for practice. I am talking about the hollow points that people actually keep loaded in their guns for defensive purposes. I don't doubt that actual sales data shows that standard pressure is more popular. That is probably the case with any caliber. But when it comes to the ammo people want for their guns, the overwhelming majority of people I know and talk to want +P, especially in 9mm and .45 acp.

Last edited by WinterWizard; 07-06-2013 at 22:17..
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Old 07-07-2013, 19:30   #28
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Big HST fan, I've got it for every caliber and I've shot every variety of it. I do use the .45 ACP +P version, but way back when I had a GAP, the 230gr HST did very well out of it, so I pulled a bunch of them and load a few up on occasion.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:10   #29
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My favorite .45 HP. I pay $49 & change all in at my LGS. Get it while you can, you won't be sorry.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:32   #30
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...I pay $49 & change all in at my LGS...




Did they use Vaseline?
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:29   #31
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Regarding standard vs +P in .45, my only experience with +P was with the 200gr Gold Dot +P and it is quite harsh. I may have to give the 230gr +P HST a try. The standard pressure is my current carry load.

What kind of fps difference is there between HST 230gr and 230gr +P in a typical 3.8-4" barrel (like you would have in a Glock 30 or H&K 45)? I'm guessing maybe 50 fps or so. tnoutdoors9 chronoed HST +P @ 957 fps from a 5" Colt and 844 fps from a Springy XDS but that is a much shorter barrel obviously.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 07-08-2013 at 08:38..
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Old 07-08-2013, 15:54   #32
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Regarding standard vs +P in .45, my only experience with +P was with the 200gr Gold Dot +P and it is quite harsh. I may have to give the 230gr +P HST a try. The standard pressure is my current carry load.

What kind of fps difference is there between HST 230gr and 230gr +P in a typical 3.8-4" barrel (like you would have in a Glock 30 or H&K 45)? I'm guessing maybe 50 fps or so. tnoutdoors9 chronoed HST +P @ 957 fps from a 5" Colt and 844 fps from a Springy XDS but that is a much shorter barrel obviously.
I think to some degree the difference is platform dependent.
With my classic alloy frame, stamp steel slide, Sig P220 45 -
the difference is quite noticeable.

Where shooting my HK45C or USP45 Tactical - not so much.

Last edited by barth; 07-08-2013 at 15:56..
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Old 07-08-2013, 17:19   #33
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I think to some degree the difference is platform dependent.
With my classic alloy frame, stamp steel slide, Sig P220 45 -
the difference is quite noticeable.

Where shooting my HK45C or USP45 Tactical - not so much.

In my Sigs and HK's I didn't really notice much difference. In a 1911 and Glock, I could feel the difference. I don't have any explanation for why but that's my experience.

As I always say, recoil perception is a very individual thing and everyone perceives it differently.
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Old 07-10-2013, 23:45   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
I am not talking about all .45 acp ammo (FMJ range ammo included); I am only talking about defensive hollow points. Neither am I talking about LE. Nor am I talking about the hollow points that people shoot for practice. I am talking about the hollow points that people actually keep loaded in their guns for defensive purposes. I don't doubt that actual sales data shows that standard pressure is more popular. That is probably the case with any caliber. But when it comes to the ammo people want for their guns, the overwhelming majority of people I know and talk to want +P, especially in 9mm and .45 acp.

I was talking about defensive ammo. I generally do not sell target ammo unless I can not get any other ammo to sell.

Your assumption based on your circle of like minded friends or LGS that the +P is more popular is just that, a assumption.

The reality is the mid to late 90's were the gold age for +P and +P+ ammo. That does not mean some of us do not like shooting it. Nor does it mean that that will go by the way of the dinosaur in the immediate future.

Nation wide more people shoot and carry standard pressure ammo than the higher pressure loads. I carry both depending on what I happen to have in the shop at the time. Right now I have two guns on me. One is loaded with standard pressure the other +P+. Not by design that just happened to be what I had at the time. I have some 147gr HST that will probably replace the 115+P+ ammo as soon as I can make it out to the farm.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:48   #35
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I bought my brother two boxes to use in his G-30SF, then got a box and loaded nine rounds in a nine round G-30 mag, and I do not own a G030S yet (can't find one in Central Indiana)...............I did try a box of 180 gr .40, in my G-22/23/27, and found the accuracy of the nut behind the gun to suffer, great bullet design, looks promising, but not as accurate as other brands (Speer/Winchester) for me in my Glocks.

So try some, if its your most accurate round our of your Glocks GO FOR IT!
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:06   #36
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I pay $30/ box of 50 @ my LGS. They have a 1 box limit and sell lower quality stuff for their range. So far HST standard pressure is the only ammo that I have tested and feel comfortable using in my g30. Granted I have not tested any others....yet. Very reliable round.

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Old 07-11-2013, 07:40   #37
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Originally Posted by TayMan View Post
I pay $30/ box of 50 @ my LGS. They have a 1 box limit and sell lower quality stuff for their range. So far HST standard pressure is the only ammo that I have tested and feel comfortable using in my g30. Granted I have not tested any others....yet. Very reliable round.

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You mentioned HST's reliability. What about its accuracy?

Thinking of getting some for carry in my G30SF.

AK
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:25   #38
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Originally Posted by Arnold Kuhl View Post
You mentioned HST's reliability. What about its accuracy?

Thinking of getting some for carry in my G30SF.

AK
It's been rather accurate in everything I've run it in so far. I can average 3" groups at 25 yards and can do a bit better in slow fire.

It's good stuff!

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Old 07-13-2013, 02:28   #39
NEOH212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TayMan View Post
I pay $30/ box of 50 @ my LGS. They have a 1 box limit and sell lower quality stuff for their range. So far HST standard pressure is the only ammo that I have tested and feel comfortable using in my g30. Granted I have not tested any others....yet. Very reliable round.

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I've personally tested both the standard pressure and +P 230 HST in the following guns:

Two Sig 220's

HK45 full size

USP .45 Compact

5" 1911

It's been 100% reliable and very accurate in all those guns.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:29   #40
Arnold Kuhl
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Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
It's been rather accurate in everything I've run it in so far. I can average 3" groups at 25 yards and can do a bit better in slow fire.

It's good stuff!

Better than 3" at 25yds? I can't even do that with my scoped .243!

AK
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Old 07-13-2013, 13:01   #41
TayMan
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Originally Posted by Arnold Kuhl View Post
You mentioned HST's reliability. What about its accuracy?

Thinking of getting some for carry in my G30SF.

AK
Extremely accurate. I haven't had much experience with pistols and when I first shot my g30 (using HST's) I was shocked at just how accurate I was shooting.

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Old 07-13-2013, 13:09   #42
Arnold Kuhl
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Outlandish Prices

I went looking for some .45ACP Federal HST at the show this morning. Only one vendor had it: $30 for a box of 20 rounds, 230gr. non+P. I walked away.

Another vendor had Golden Saber, 185gr. +P, $23 for 25 rounds. A little better, but I wanted 230gr. I again walked away.

AK
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Old 07-13-2013, 13:53   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Kuhl View Post
Another vendor had Golden Saber, 185gr. +P, $23 for 25 rounds. A little better, but I wanted 230gr. I again walked away.

AK
I thought my 45 GS in stock was over priced.

http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/s...ig27&pd=307456
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