GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-08-2013, 14:57   #1
.264 magnum
CLM Number 121
Charter Lifetime Member
 
.264 magnum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 16,661
3rd, yes 3rd, amendment case.....

http://politics.foxnews.mobi/quickPa...03.proteus.fma


Hopefully, that link works.


I hope this guy wins millions and jobs are lost.
__________________
The Gonzales Flag - "Come and Take It!"
.264 magnum is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:00   #2
HerrGlock
CLM Number 2
Scouts Out
 
HerrGlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 64,439


Yeah, this one's something to watch. One of these will work.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/07/05/...n-nevada-case/

http://now.msn.com/anthony-mitchell-...ent-violations

http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/03/59061.htm
__________________
Sent from my rotary phone
"The way I see it as soon as a baby is born, he should be issued a banjo!"- Linus Van Pelt
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins any more
HerrGlock is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:08   #3
ArtyGuy
Senior Member
 
ArtyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 810
While I don't agree with the arrest, I don't see how they are going to argue it is in violation of the 3rd Amendment. Police aren't Soldier-- it' my understanding the reason for the amendment was for something very different. It'll be interesting to see how the lawyer(s) argue it.
__________________
The King puts the balls where the Queen wants them.

Last edited by ArtyGuy; 07-08-2013 at 15:10..
ArtyGuy is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:09   #4
2bgop
Senior Member
 
2bgop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In the SEC
Posts: 5,681
Cop haters!!!!

Sorry, just wanted to get in before they shut you down.
2bgop is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:25   #5
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,678
Blog Entries: 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
While I don't agree with the arrest, I don't see how they are going to argue it is in violation of the 3rd Amendment. Police aren't Soldier-- it' my understanding the reason for the amendment was for something very different. It'll be interesting to see how the lawyer(s) argue it.
IMHO, they will argue that police = government = what the 3rd is about.
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:31   #6
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
While I don't agree with the arrest, I don't see how they are going to argue it is in violation of the 3rd Amendment. Police aren't Soldier-- it' my understanding the reason for the amendment was for something very different. It'll be interesting to see how the lawyer(s) argue it.
Militarization of the police. Surplussed military equipment. More LEOs have military background. Rank structure. LE wear uniforms, including combat styled boots. Use of military terminology. DHS getting delivery of 2.7 billion rounds of small arms ammo since January 1 of this year. Expanded/common use of blue coloured roof lights on police cars indicating merger of UN practices (traditionally, U.S. LE/first reponders only used red and white lights).

Probably many more indicia that I missed.
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.

Last edited by Patchman; 07-08-2013 at 15:36..
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:35   #7
crazymoose
Nonentity
 
crazymoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Militarization of the police. Surplussed military equipment. More LEOs have military background. Rank structure. LE wear uniforms. Use of military terminology. DHS getting delivery of 2.7 billion rounds of small arms ammo since January 1 of this year. Expanded/common use of blue coloured roof lights on police cars indicative of adopting European/UN practices (traditionally, U.S. LE only used red and white lights).

Probably many more indicia that I missed.
Not going to weigh in on whether I think it's a good or bad thing, but there is a definite trend toward militarization of the police forces going on nationwide.

When I was a kid, cops most places looked basically like civilians in police uniforms and carried shotguns and revolvers. Now, as you said, most of them wear military haircuts and are issued AR's, and just about every department either has its own SWAT/SRT team or participates in a regional joint group.
__________________
Do not mistake precedent for justification.

Doubt is an unpleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Voltaire

Last edited by crazymoose; 07-08-2013 at 15:37..
crazymoose is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:37   #8
Syclone0538
Senior Member
 
Syclone0538's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 847
Breaking and entering, assault, and kidnapping under color of law?
Syclone0538 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:39   #9
PIMking
Im weird
 
PIMking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
While I don't agree with the arrest, I don't see how they are going to argue it is in violation of the 3rd Amendment. Police aren't Soldier-- it' my understanding the reason for the amendment was for something very different. It'll be interesting to see how the lawyer(s) argue it.
police are not soldiers but they're government employees...
PIMking is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:44   #10
kenpoprofessor
Senior Member
 
kenpoprofessor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ex POW in the PRK now N. Phoenix AZ
Posts: 4,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMking View Post
police are not soldiers but they're government employees...
So what you're saying is they're civilians like everyone else ?

If they're not subject to the UCMJ, they are civilians, no matter what dictionary tell you they're not.

If there's a murder on base, they always say "Oh, we have to let the "civilian agency" do their job" .

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day


Clyde
__________________
"Occasionally, Mr. Darwin offers a spontaneous IQ test, some people fail."
kenpoprofessor is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:44   #11
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymoose View Post
Not going to weigh in on whether I think it's a good or bad thing, but there is a definite trend toward militarization of the police forces going on nationwide.

When I was a kid, cops most places looked basically like civilians in police uniforms and carried shotguns and revolvers. Now, as you said, most of them wear military haircuts and are issued AR's, and just about every department either has its own SWAT/SRT team or participates in a regional joint group.
I think it is that and the "blue wall" that makes cops feel like they are a class above your average civilian. In most other countries the cops are part of the community first and foremost and *big shocker* actually more interested in the welfare of the people they serve when who get's the newest model of Taser or laser sight.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:48   #12
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
I'll also say that if this story is true (and there are some red flags here) then the cops should all be criminally charged. This is one of the big downsides to cops not being liable for this stuff financially. They get to act like Judge Dredd and the city/county get's to pay out the multi-million dollar settlements.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:50   #13
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMking View Post
police are not soldiers but they're government employees...
I have a Ranger friend who said the RoE for American SWAT teams is lower than what he had going on raids in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:50   #14
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymoose View Post
Not going to weigh in on whether I think it's a good or bad thing, but there is a definite trend toward militarization of the police forces going on nationwide.

When I was a kid, cops most places looked basically like civilians in police uniforms and carried shotguns and revolvers. Now, as you said, most of them wear military haircuts and are issued AR's, and just about every department either has its own SWAT/SRT team or participates in a regional joint group.
I grew up in the 1970s and remember how cops looked back then. Bushy hair and hairy mustaches. And yes, I was like that too. Then in the 1980s I went with a rat tail! But that was stylish! Now I find crewcuts much more practical.

I do agree that U.S. LE has been forced to ramp up their equipment in response to many, many more BGs who are moving towards AK/AR rifles as their weapon of choice. I would not expect LEOs to go after long gun armed BGs with 6-shooters.
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 15:52   #15
snorko
NRA Life Member
 
snorko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW Indiana
Posts: 639
I've seen this posted several places and have yet to see anyone bring up the fifth amendment vs the third in this case. To me this appears to be a takings case where the use of the property was taken by the Gov w/o just compensation or due process.
snorko is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 16:00   #16
ArtyGuy
Senior Member
 
ArtyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Militarization of the police. Surplussed military equipment. More LEOs have military background. Rank structure. LE wear uniforms, including combat styled boots. Use of military terminology. DHS getting delivery of 2.7 billion rounds of small arms ammo since January 1 of this year. Expanded/common use of blue coloured roof lights on police cars indicating merger of UN practices (traditionally, U.S. LE/first reponders only used red and white lights).

Probably many more indicia that I missed.
Way back in the late 80s and early 90s when I was studying criminal justice in college, we examined the paramilitary structure of police forces-- it is nothing new. However, I don't see that being a successful legal argument. You can argue anything but it needs to be a good argument if you wish to be successful in court.

We didn't discuss the 3rd Amendment very much in Criminal or Cnstitutional Law because it was written based upon the fact British Soldiers forced owners to quarter them and there were not any court cases that changed the way things are done.-- it is rarely challenged.

To me, they key word is Soldiers. Police are not Soldiers. The military falls under Title 10 of the US government. Local police do not, State police do not, the FBI does not, the DHS does not, and the DoS does not. They all have different stipulations. I mention that because I would think showing the distinction can be the counter argument. The amendment was written to address Soldiers and there are legal definitions of what a Soldier (military) is. The fact that the arresting officers have military style rank and/or weapons does not magically give them military authorities.

(I'm to going to touch the DHS or UN practices because they have nothing to do with this).
__________________
The King puts the balls where the Queen wants them.
ArtyGuy is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 16:04   #17
ArtyGuy
Senior Member
 
ArtyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
I have a Ranger friend who said the RoE for American SWAT teams is lower than what he had going on raids in Afghanistan and Iraq.
I'm active duty Army with experience in both theaters doing raids. Your friend is mistaken or you misunderstood him. I would offer that SWAT teams would love to have the freedom we did. Nothing stopped us from hog tying folks, detaining them, etc. We weren't dealing with folks that had rights anywhere close to what John and Jane Q. Public have.
__________________
The King puts the balls where the Queen wants them.
ArtyGuy is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 16:05   #18
crazymoose
Nonentity
 
crazymoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
I think it is that and the "blue wall" that makes cops feel like they are a class above your average civilian. In most other countries the cops are part of the community first and foremost and *big shocker* actually more interested in the welfare of the people they serve when who get's the newest model of Taser or laser sight.
I don't know if I'd go that far. There are a whole lot of places in the world where the police are basically thugs that get to do more or less what they want, including extortion, beating, etc. A lot of Asian, African, South American, and former Soviet countries fall into this category.

The "Blue Wall"/fraternity mentality is a legitimate thing that happens here, but it's pretty much guaranteed to happen to some degree or another. You have to factor in personality traits that are common in many police officers (very clear-cut, moralistic world view), and the fact that they are at odds with many or most of the people they interact with on a daily basis. They may not be exchanging gunfire or fists with every person they run into, but they deal with plenty of people in an average shift who aren't exactly happy to see them. These things are bound to foster an "us vs. them" mentality to some degree, but for the most part, it's pretty well controlled in this country. My biggest concerns with police in America are policy/administration/tactics oriented, and do not stem from the officers themselves.
__________________
Do not mistake precedent for justification.

Doubt is an unpleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Voltaire

Last edited by crazymoose; 07-08-2013 at 16:08..
crazymoose is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 16:06   #19
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,678
Blog Entries: 1


Isn't anyone wondering why they are going this type without mention of a 1983 suit?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 16:07   #20
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
I'll also say that if this story is true (and there are some red flags here) then the cops should all be criminally charged. This is one of the big downsides to cops not being liable for this stuff financially. They get to act like Judge Dredd and the city/county get's to pay out the multi-million dollar settlements.
I'm curious, if the red flags should prove true, and the plaintiff lied or greatly exaggerated, what the appropriate punishment for the plaintiff should be?
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 16:33   #21
gjk5
Pinche Gringo
 
gjk5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grand Junction Colorado
Posts: 9,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
I do agree that U.S. LE has been forced to ramp up their equipment in response to many, many more BGs who are moving towards AK/AR rifles as their weapon of choice.

bullcrap.
gjk5 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 16:38   #22
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,678
Blog Entries: 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
I'm curious, if the red flags should prove true, and the plaintiff lied or greatly exaggerated, what the appropriate punishment for the plaintiff should be?
Keelhauling

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 16:39   #23
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
I'm curious, if the red flags should prove true, and the plaintiff lied or greatly exaggerated, what the appropriate punishment for the plaintiff should be?
Depends on how much they are lying. I am not sure about this particular court but I wanna say the loser pays the winners legal fees in federal civil cases.

I posted a video from a 4th of July DUI checkpoint and it wouldn't shock me in the least to see those cops do something like mentioned in this case. They are audio recorded off camera berating the subject about how his "rights" don't mean spit to them.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 17:27   #24
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Isn't anyone wondering why they are going this type without mention of a 1983 suit?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Good question. I know the answer and it points to why this may be BS.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is online now  
Old 07-08-2013, 17:42   #25
boomhower
Senior Member
 
boomhower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjk5 View Post
bullcrap.
How do you figure? Maybe not everywhere but that's certainly the case in my little piece of paradise.
boomhower is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:17.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 829
205 Members
624 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42