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Old 05-12-2013, 18:54   #26
SDGlock23
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Yes 3N38 is very good powder, not the easiest to find, but it's super consistent and very slow burning. You will run out of room for powder before you see pressure signs.
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Old 05-12-2013, 23:25   #27
happie2shoot
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This is 1 of the molds I am getting.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...cav-Brass-Miha


Blueprint with -6gr "Penta" HP:


"Penta" HP blueprint:


Round hp blueprint:


LINK TO THE DISCUSSION FORUM THREAD
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:49   #28
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Looks interesting! One thing I lack is bullet casting, I may have to start up.
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Old 05-19-2013, 19:33   #29
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I had the urge to run a few through my gen4 G27 today. I wanted to try a good 200gr hardcast load, and try a few using Blue Dot, a powder I have several pounds of but never have messed with it much. Humid out and around 75 degrees.

Glock 27 Gen4 (stock)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.4gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,032 fps (4 fps ES!!)

180gr MG JHP, 8.9gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,050 fps (3 fps ES!!)

180gr MG JHP, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,097 fps (16 fps ES, 5% over book)

Now these probably aren't what you would load up if you're looking for easy recoil and super fast follow up shots, but they do pack a punch since remember, these are coming from a 3.5" barrel.

Brass had some swelling, but even factory ammo had it so I'm not concerned, just the typical stuff.
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Old 05-19-2013, 23:12   #30
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Thanks for the info on the mod.27.

I posted on the 21 club about some bullets for the 460 that
you are playing with, if you are in the USA I will send you
some to try.
I now think I will have to get a 275gr fn like the one your
shooting, looks so good.
By the way you are right Yahshua does save.
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Old 05-23-2013, 17:13   #31
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My favorite would be just about anything I load up using Vihtavuori N350. Low smoke, low flash, very clean, and extremely accurate and consistent:

Out of a Sig P229 4" barrel:
1) Rainier 165gr RSFP: 1.125" COAL / 8.6gn -> 1063fps
2) Rainier 180gr JHP: 1.125" COAL / 6.0gn -> 945fps
3) Speer 180gr TMJ: 1.125" COAL / 6.2gn -> 947fps
4) Speer 165gr GD: 1.125" COAL / 7.5gn -> 1108fps
5) Speer 180gr GD: 1.125" COAL / 6.4gn -> 998fps

Obviously I don't over charge my handloads. I try to match the performance of factory loads.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:55   #32
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A couple through the Glock 35. Data is from a stock Gen4 Glock 35.

180gr Gold Dot, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.130": 1,150 fps (4 fps ES!)

180gr MG JHP, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,185 fps (28 fps ES) MG = Montana Gold

180gr Gold Dot, 8.4gr Longshot @ 1.125": 1,268 fps (6 fps ES!)

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By the way you are right Yahshua does save.
Amen!
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Old 06-01-2013, 14:51   #33
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I ran some more today, just had the itch to do it so I figured why not. I loaded up the Chrony and headed to the backyard for some testing, this time using some Vihta Vouri 3N38.

Shot through a stock Gen4 Glock 35. Velocity listed is the average and all loads used once fired Winchester brass and CCI SP primers. While these ran perfectly from my stock G35, back off at least .5gr in your gun starting out.

175gr Winchester STHP, 9.7gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,262 fps (a sweet 7 fps extreme spread!)

180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.4gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,279 fps (an even sweeter 6 fps ES!)

180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.6gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,303 fps (31 fps ES)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC hardcast, 8.4gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,161 fps ( 21 fps ES)

There you have it. I'm sure some people roll their eyes at me when I mention that a 10mm isn't needed and that a .40 can do anything a 10mm can in terms of taking game, but it's true. The G35 is a great platform for it too with the same capacity as a G20, has a longer sight radius plus it's thinner and weighs less (not to mention the brass availability issue). I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a Gen4 G24 whenever Glock decides to make a few

No feeding issues and brass looked okay, nothing alarming at all. VV 3N38 is just slow enough to get really good velocity but not so slow as to run out of room in the .40 case which hurts velocity potential (ahem, like AA9).

As for the bullets, either hardcast load above would be very effective on game, and I'd be hard pressed to choose between the two myself. The 180gr is faster and while it has a good meplat, the 200gr WFNGC has the best profile of the two, so that's why it's a tough choice. Speaking of which, the 180gr RNFP hardcast bullets are from Laser Cast and are designed for 38-40 revolvers, but I chose them because their profile works in a semi-auto plus it has a good sized meplat compared to most other 180gr hardcasts.

Montana bullet works has some sweet looking 38-40 style offerings with an even larger meplat, but who knows someday I might pony up the cash to try a few out. But for now I don't see it as being a top priority. If I could get a 180gr WFNGC with the same profile as the 200gr WFNGC from Beartooth, that would be ideal IMHO (anybody from Beartooth reading this? Pllleeaaaase??!!)

Any chance this can be a sticky?
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Old 06-01-2013, 18:44   #34
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What does your KKM 6" do?

If that was a stock Glock how does the longer KKM in .40 do? Is it faster or slower than the stock/shorter barrel? The stock barrel has a much faster twist. Is there more torque when you shoot a heavy lead bullet compared to the slower twist KKM?

I have a G24 with the KKM .40 barrel. I seem to get the "feeling" there is a bit less torque when I shoot with the KKM over the much faster twist Glock barrel. I've wondered if the accuracy gain seen in KKM barrels over factory in a Glock is due to the slower twist and less torque. I note that the Glock .45s have a much more normal twist of 1-16 and they are considered to be the "most accurate factory Glock". Do you know WHY glock puts out such super fast twist in there 9mm and .40sw barrels? Thanks for all the effort and your posts. Very informative. I appreciate your efforts.
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Old 06-03-2013, 22:33   #35
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oal in mod27

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post
Looks interesting! One thing I lack is bullet casting, I may have to start up.
I am lacking many things

I shot some 40s&w Saturday and my oal was 1.160 and I checked and I think it will feed an oal of 1.175, have you
tried any longer than 1.130.

I used 3 diferent barrels in the G27, the oem barrel and a LW
4.060 threaded and a 4.6 threaded.
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Old 06-03-2013, 22:39   #36
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I am thinking that the 175+grain bullets could go faster if seated longer +
more powder, I think it would be worth throating your barrel if need be.

All three of mine fed at that oal.

I wish my mold would hurry up and get here.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:32   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilrus61 View Post
If that was a stock Glock how does the longer KKM in .40 do? Is it faster or slower than the stock/shorter barrel? The stock barrel has a much faster twist. Is there more torque when you shoot a heavy lead bullet compared to the slower twist KKM?

I have a G24 with the KKM .40 barrel. I seem to get the "feeling" there is a bit less torque when I shoot with the KKM over the much faster twist Glock barrel. I've wondered if the accuracy gain seen in KKM barrels over factory in a Glock is due to the slower twist and less torque. I note that the Glock .45s have a much more normal twist of 1-16 and they are considered to be the "most accurate factory Glock". Do you know WHY glock puts out such super fast twist in there 9mm and .40sw barrels? Thanks for all the effort and your posts. Very informative. I appreciate your efforts.

Sorry for the late reply, the KKM barrel does indeed speed things up a bit. Generally speaking, I've found that a better supported barrel with conventional rifling does increase velocity even if it is the same length as the Glock barrel. Get this, my 3" Kahr CM40, which is very well support and does have traditional rifling will consistently average faster than my 3.5" Glock 27!

Depending on powder I see more of a jump between barrel lengths, because for whatever reason 3N38 doesn't react quite as much to barrel changes as other powders do (like Longshot or 800x), plus heavier bullets in general don't react as much to barrel length variations as lighter weight bullets. Also with 3N38 sometimes a slight jump in powder doesn't make hardly any difference, then with another bullet it does. The 3N38 load above with the 180gr RNFP that did 1300 fps from the 5.3" Glock 35 will hover around 1350 fps from the 6" KKM barrel. The 200gr hardcast load above will hover right around 1200 fps and the 175gr above should bust 1300+ from the 6". I tested a 175gr Silvertip from the KKM and it did 1288 fps but was loaded to a longer OAL, so the shorter OAL of 1.130" should get it past 1300.

I have a theory that the better support of the KKM aids in faster velocity too, and while it may just be nonsense, my thought is that while the stock barrel is slightly expanding the brass (due to it having less support), the expanded brass develops slightly higher case capacity (compared to non expanded brass in the KKM) which drops pressure slightly which in turn drops velocity too. But maybe not either, it's just a thought.

I don't really notice any more torque when shooting from the stock Glock barrel, but I'm not a very recoil sensitive person. If there is more, I can't really tell the difference. It's interesting you bring up the twist rates because honestly, I've never really paid attention to it until the other day the thought popped up in my head about Glocks twist rate, and maybe that's one of the reasons why I get slower velocities out of the Glock barrels perhaps? But I'm like you, I have no idea why Glock uses the twist rate they do for the .40's, no clue whatsoever.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:40   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happie2shoot View Post
I am lacking many things

I shot some 40s&w Saturday and my oal was 1.160 and I checked and I think it will feed an oal of 1.175, have you
tried any longer than 1.130.

I used 3 diferent barrels in the G27, the oem barrel and a LW
4.060 threaded and a 4.6 threaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happie2shoot View Post
I am thinking that the 175+grain bullets could go faster if seated longer +
more powder, I think it would be worth throating your barrel if need be.

All three of mine fed at that oal.

I wish my mold would hurry up and get here.

Happie, yes I have tried a longer OAL with good success. Get this, in my KKM .40's I can seat the bullet out rather long, even 10mm length (1.250-1.260"), which is okay if I want a single shot Glock The problem is I can't really load anything longer than 1.150-1.155" and have them to load up in the magazine. I can usually get a few 1.160's to seat in the magazine, but not more than 2-3 of them.

I did a little test and made a dummy round of .40 at 1.250" and it seats perfectly in both my KKM 6" and KKM 4". What's neat about that is if it's the same OAL as a 10mm, you can use 10mm load data, but have the added advantage of the stronger .40 case.


I've toyed around a little with the idea of a long OAL which will indeed give more room for powder, but it's not something I've played with extensively. And even then, only out into the 1.15's, but I can mess around with even longer, which I'm going to have to do. It might even be interesting to load up some at long like a 10mm just to see what would happen, even if it limits my Glock to being a single shot!
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Old 06-05-2013, 16:57   #39
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I want to thank you again for your imput on this Glock thing,
I started reloading in 1966 but never much for the Glock.

After all the talk about how short you need to reload for the
Glock I was shocked at how long my magazines will hold.

I know from the magnum revolvers longer is usually better and
the 9mm major boys are doing some wild things with longer
oal and more pressure.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS, I don't go this far but its a good read
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...owtopic=147730
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:53   #40
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Thanks for the link Happy, I look forward to reading it!
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Old 06-07-2013, 18:05   #41
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Thanks for the link Happy, I look forward to reading it!
Thank's for all the info you have given.
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Old 06-08-2013, 14:41   #42
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Might as well post up a few more I ran today. A little bit more of a mixture, but it sure is a good mix. Since I was going to run some warm handloads, I just shot all loads through the 6" KKM barrel in my Gen4 G35, other than that the gun is stock. Velocities as always are averages. Temp out side around 75 degrees.

180gr Missouri TCFP, 5.0gr HP38 @ 1.125": 1,070 fps (13 fps ES)

180gr Montana Gold JHP, 6.5gr Unique @ 1.120" (1x Win, Fed SP): 1,207 fps (5 fps ES!!)

This is a very consistent load that still hits hard (over 580 ft-lbs at muzzle) and is in my opinion plenty fast for any 180gr JHP bullet, but with that said, it's still fun to play around.

Strange as it may sound, I have a moniker for my warm .40's: ".400 S&W"

Before I post this data, let me again warn that these are over book max charges that are what I have deemed to be safe in MY GUN. DO NOT just drop these loads in a stock Glock barrel, work them up first. I use a well supported KKM barrel that is 6" long and use the stock Gen4 RSA. These are also seated to the longest OAL that will reliably feed in a Glock .40 S&W magazine (1.150").

180gr XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.150": (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,358 fps (12 fps ES!) That's 737 ft-lbs

200gr XTP, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.150": (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,244 fps (22 fps ES!) That's 687 ft-lbs

Brass looked good! No bulges in the KKM barrel and the primers didn't even look very flat.

Also I wanted to add my very first attempt at LONG load .40! My KKM barrels will accept .40's out to 10mm OAL, 10mm data can be used, it just makes the .40 S&W Glock a single shot since the rounds are obviously too long to seat in the magazine, only 1 fits.

180gr Rem JHP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.250" (1x Win .40 S&W, Fed SP): 1,351 fps (6" bbl)

Didn't want to use book max so I did 9.2gr instead of 9.5gr Longshot. However, compare that to the 1.150" loaded 800x load above, which is faster. It is cool to be able to use your .40 as a 10mm, even if it is a single shot.
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Old 06-08-2013, 14:46   #43
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I meant to post this with the last post, but I did run a few through the little Kahr CM40 (3" bbl).

180gr Missouri TCFP, 5.0gr HP38 @ 1.125": 990 fps (9 fps ES!)

200gr Missouir TCFP, 7.0gr 800x @ 1.125" (1x Speer Nickel, Fed SP): 1,052 fps (9 fps ES!) For 491 ft-lbs

The HP38 load averaged 1070 fps from the 6" KKM, so as you see some powders don't really gain much even though in this case, there's twice the amount of barrel.

The 200gr hardcast was an effort to mimic the 200gr "Outdoorsman" load from Buffalo Bore, and well, I exceeded it. They claim 1000 fps from a 4-4.5" bbl, I averaged over 1050 from a 3". But I will say this, it recoils. Keep in mind too that the factory Hornady 10mm 200 XTP is rated at 1050 fps from a 5" barrel. Not bad for a pocket .40!

Ran a couple of factory loads too:

Speer 155gr Gold Dot: 1,104 fps (56 fps ES)

CorBon 135gr PowR Ball: 1,240 fps (58 fps ES)

Not terrible, but not the most consistent. The Triton 135gr JHP runs 1260 from the CM40, just a little faster than the CorBon. Seems odd, but I prefer 135gr bullets to be below 1300 fps since their section density is so poor driving them faster just seems diminish penetration and cause the bullet to break up more.

The 155gr Gold Dots were kind of old too, I wanted to shoot them up since I have a much newer box now. 1100 fps is a touch on the slow side it seems, as that's what most factory 165gr JHP's hover at from the short 3" barreled Kahr.
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Old 06-08-2013, 14:48   #44
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Quote:
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Thank's for all the info you have given.
No problem Happy, maybe some people will gain some info from all of this. Oh BTW, that link was interesting! They got some 9mm loads to some smokin' velocities!!

I don't load for the 9mm anymore, but I used to play around with it some. It's no problem for 124gr bullets to hover at and above 1,350 fps from a G34, which I thought was pretty darn fast for a 9mm!
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Old 06-08-2013, 16:24   #45
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Thanks agan, here is the thread that got me started with the 9mm major.
It is 20 pages long.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...c=12740&page=1
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Old 06-08-2013, 18:40   #46
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That forum has a lot of good molds; I'm waiting to see how my pistols do with the second one below.



Quote:
Originally Posted by happie2shoot View Post
what do you 40 cal. guys think of this RERUN-Mihec-10mm-200gr-WFN-40s-amp-w-180gr-HP-4-cavity-Brass hope the link works

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...4-cavity-Brass




http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...cav-Brass-Miha
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Old 06-09-2013, 22:03   #47
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That forum has a lot of good molds; I'm waiting to see how my pistols do with the second one below.






http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...4-cavity-Brass




http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...cav-Brass-Miha
I am getting the 170gr too.
I would like both but that's a lot of money.

Stay off that site or it will cost you much money,
I have probably got close to 50 molds.

I started reloading in 66 and started casting in 79.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:46   #48
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I wanted to post an update.

I found a good deal on a Gen4 G20. I hesitated to get it but I didn't want to pass it up either, so I bought it. But that doesn't mean I'm done with warm .40's, actually I bought a 6" KKM .40 conversion barrel for the 20. That means I can long load the .40's to 10mm length and the G20 mag will hold them, plus I can still shoot normal OAL .40 loads (and experiment with everything in between too!).

There is added advantage here too since the G20 slide is heavier than my G35 slide so that will not only help recoil but it will have slower slide speed. Additionally, I have some 24lb ISMI springs coming to help it out even more. That way I can use 24lb with my .45 Super warm loads as well as my warm .40's and warm 10mm's.

I plan to load up some warm 10mm too like I did in the past, but most of what it will see will be .40's. It's a good thing I've got tons of .40 brass because trying to find 10mm brass right now is tough!
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Old 06-19-2013, 18:48   #49
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Got the KKM G20 .40 S&W conversion barrel in today, and the 20 isn't even here yet! Adding to the fact that the G20 itself is heavier than the G35, the KKM conversion barrel is noticeably heavier than the KKM G24 bbl so the extra heft should really ease recoil and be easier on brass. I snapped a few pictures to show the difference.

It's the same length (both 6") but the G20 version is wider and heavier. KKM G24 on the left, KKM 10mm conversion barrel on the right.
The .40 S&W Club

The .40 S&W Club


The walls are thicker too on the conversion bbl, more material is a good thing:

The .40 S&W Club


So the main reason I even got the 20 was to shoot long loaded .40's. So I was really hoping the new conversion barrel would be reamed at least as much as my G24 and G23 KKM barrel. It is! Here's a picture of a .40 S&W (180gr Rem JHP) loaded to 10mm OAL of 1.260":

The .40 S&W Club

Yeah it looks a little odd, but it works. So the conversion barrel, while a .40, is also a 10mm since long loaded .40 is a 10mm, there's no difference. Well...at least with the heavier bullets. I can see issues loading some 135gr or maybe even 155gr to 1.260", but that's no biggie, I can load them anywhere from 1.100" to over 1.260" if I want, so plenty of room to play. All this with the added advantage of the stronger .40 S&W case.

This is just to show the same bullet above (long loaded 1.260" .40) seated in the KKM conversion barrel:

The .40 S&W Club


Anyways, it should be fun!
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Old 06-20-2013, 21:13   #50
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SDGlock23

good deal, I am looking forward to your results.

Lone Wolf has sent my G30 Rowland barrels.
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