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Old 05-30-2013, 13:58   #1
stevyHD
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My Daughter Shoots! [VIDEO] Can I get a little bit of advice please?

Hi everyone, I wanted to let you know that I just started a new series entitled "My Daughter Sh0ots!"

I would love for you guys to check it out and leave a comment to let me know of any tips or advice that could help me to teach my daughter better. As I am still so new to firearms and not knowing much myself. So please, go check it out and share it with your friends.

I posted this on another forum that I am a member and got a lot of great advice, I am hoping to gain some more from you guys.

Thanks.

Here's the link:
http://youtu.be/-Lo7qKRX4Yg


As well, I hope someday to get her into the GSSF, I was wondering what the minimal age limit is for competitors? And what are good habits/procedures should I begin installing in her now?

Last edited by stevyHD; 05-30-2013 at 15:25..
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Old 05-30-2013, 14:04   #2
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Nice video! Your daughter has it down pat. tom.
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Old 05-30-2013, 14:14   #3
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Nice video.


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Old 05-30-2013, 14:31   #4
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Very nice! I hope to get my daughter out shooting when she is older.

**Safety Nazi Alert**

About the 58 second mark she swept her feet really bad. Might want to help her be more aware of where the muzzle is at all times.
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Old 05-30-2013, 14:43   #5
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I didn't watch the whole thing, I'm at work. But I would invest some money into a quality belt and holster just for her. It will help her draw, and keep her from accidentally sweeping her feet. I'll watch the whole video when I can and might have more to comment on.


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Old 05-30-2013, 14:43   #6
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Good for you, Dad!
Way to go!
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Old 05-30-2013, 15:29   #7
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Thanks for the compliments, this is really only her 3rd time shooting a gun. We usually go out for a few hours about once a week. She still has a lot to learn, but then I do as well.

I was wondering though, what is the minimal age limit for competitors in GSSF? Also, what are good habits/procedures should I begin installing in her now?
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Old 05-30-2013, 15:47   #8
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I turned it off when you did your "safety check"

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Old 05-30-2013, 16:06   #9
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I think it's great that you are helping your daughter learn to shoot. My 13 year old shoots uspsa, and makes me proud. A few observations since you asked:

I do not think your daughter is ready to draw a loaded gun from a holster, or to reholster. Not even close to ready.

As pointed out, your equipment isn't ideal either.

And, while I'm sure you will cherish the videos you make, I think you need a 3rd person involved. An experienced shooter needs to watch that girl like a hawk 100% of the time and should be within arms reach. That's hard to do if you're shooting video.

Best of luck, and stay safe!
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Old 05-30-2013, 16:31   #10
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Nice video my friend
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Old 05-30-2013, 17:47   #11
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I agree with clusterfrack.

Dry fire drills at home.

Also how did you build that pigeon holder?

Nice video though! Good job on getting her involved! You look just like mrgunsngear BTW! Lol!

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Old 05-30-2013, 18:00   #12
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OP,

I hope you understand those of us that have pointed out safety issues. Some things that seem obvious to me may not to you. And no one wants to see a child hurt because we chose to stay quiet.

I think it is awesome you're getting to introduce your daughter to shooting. I look forward to the day when I can do the same with my kids now 4 & 6.

I would love to have my kids handling a gun as good as the girl in this video:
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Old 05-30-2013, 18:31   #13
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Yes CarryTexas, not just do I completely understand, this is the type of information I am looking for. Being new to firearms myself, I humbly admit that I know just about nothing. You can read all you want, valuable information, but it is people seeing you and pointing out what you are doing wrong that helps you to become better, and that is all I want. Safety is my primary concern, and I appreciate every last bit of advice, even advice that gets repeated because the best form of learning is repetition.

Also, I have asked this already, but I'm not sure if people saw it or not. But, what is the age limit to join and participate in GSSF competitions. There are a few places near me that do them. And what are some good traits that I can ingrain in to my daughter at this early age regarding the GSSF?
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Old 05-30-2013, 18:58   #14
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Does she actually want to shoot professionally, or was that just something to write about the video?

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Old 05-30-2013, 19:09   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevyHD View Post
Also, I have asked this already, but I'm not sure if people saw it or not. But, what is the age limit to join and participate in GSSF competitions. There are a few places near me that do them. And what are some good traits that I can ingrain in to my daughter at this early age regarding the GSSF?

I found on another forum that there is no minimum age and it comes down to can they handle the weapon safely. The poster had seen kids as young as 8 competing and 11 & 12 year olds that were complete self sufficient. It also depends on what the host range rules are.

Let her have fun and don't push her too hard. Get her some training so that she learns proper technique from the beginning.
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Old 05-30-2013, 19:13   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrye11 View Post
I turned it off when you did your "safety check"

molan labe
At first I thought the same thing (thought he shot it in the air).. but after watching it a couple times, I think he shot it into the hillside.

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Old 05-30-2013, 20:10   #17
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Dry fire practice is really valuable, as is going step by step from basic to advanced skills. We did (and still do) 10 times as much dry fire as live fire.

My daughter trained for close to a year before I let her draw or re-holster a hot weapon.

I needed to see rock solid muzzle control even when I shoved her or simulated a malfunction. We went over the concept of the 180 degree safe line for muzzles, and trained on how not to muzzle herself or others while drawing, reholstering, and reloading. Larger guns are better than smaller ones because it's easier to keep muzzle control with them.

Another important skill is trigger finger control. I drilled her on keeping her finger straight and visibly out of the trigger guard at all times unless firing. I would "DQ" her and stop the practice if I couldn't see her finger was straight and away from the guard.

We also trained to deal with unexpected surprises, and I think this is the hardest thing for younger kids because they are much more easily distracted. If someone calls her name, would she turn and break the 180? If a hot shell falls down her shirt while she's shooting, can she suck it up while making safe? If she fumbles the gun, does she know to let it fall instead of trying to catch it? What happens if she trips and falls? If someone tells her to do something unsafe, will she do it or stop?

Another thing I discussed early on with my daughter was gunshot wounds. We keep a blowout kit (GSW med kit) in our gear, and make sure to check that we have a good charge and cell signal, and know where the phone is. Part of this is simple common sense, but another part is that I wanted her to have serious respect for what firearms are capable of doing.

We also went to the range with USPSA and IDPA safety officers and they observed her and made sure she was safe and able to follow the rules.

Here's a pic from a recent match.

Click image for larger version

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Old 05-30-2013, 21:16   #18
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Looks like you are doing a great job with her

But if you want constructive criticism, I can try to offer some. You posted, so I think you want honest opinions.

I didn't get the sense that you had a firm firing line, a clear reference for where the gun should be pointed downrange. You drew facing her, during your "safety check" not a good idea to do that kind of move. Often, competition does not allow doing that. She tended to twist the gun in her hand to look at things, moving the muzzle a bit toward herself while doing so, potentially a bad habit. Pointing at her feet is a no no, instead should be at a 45 degree angle ponted downrange. She can rest her elbows on her sides if she needs to while resting the gun in the lowered position (at the 45 degree angle). Would be very helpful to have a table in front of you which you could set the gun on. She would be beside the table while shooting. Set gun unloaded on table, muzzle downrange. Don't set a loaded gun on the table.

As for shooting, she is anticipating the recoil. You can see it in the target, and also clearly at 6:30 when she pulls the trigger on an empty gun. The muzzle drops for no reason, other than her flinch.

I get the sense she was over tiring herself, maybe shooting too much in one session? She said her hand hurt. Extended shooting sessions can possibly make bad habits worse.

You, yourself, have typical low left Glock shooting syndrome for right handed shooters. She is more just low (a little to the right), but that is because she isn't shooting a Glock.

Not sure the focus should be on being the best, not when saying there is no point in doing it otherwise. There are many reasons to do it, even if you are not the best.

I'm not the best, but I can shoot under 6" groups at 50 yards. And am rated a Marksman in IDPA (most reading this are better than that). Have also taken deer with a handgun. Is the focus on being the best you can be, or on being the best? Two different things. Being the best you can be is the more important, but also needs balance with many other aspects. In this case with guns, safety is more important. She might not be ready for drawing and shooting. A table you can take out to the range should replace the drawing.

I am NRA certified to instruct handgun. I mention that just as FYI. There is a range of people on the internet. Opinions from all kinds of people with varying levels of experience. So now you have some context for the stuff I'm saying. Lots of people know more than me, and have awesome credentials, but at least you can believe I've thought about and taught this stuff to other newbies.

As for your shooting, I wrote some tips in another thread about using a surprise break. I'm going to go get that and paste it to this thread. I believe it will help you. And then in turn help you to teach your daughter. I'm not saying you need to present it to your daughter, but you might want to be aware of the concepts.

Hopefully you won't think any of this is talking down to you. Again, as I said at the start of this post, you appear to be doing a great job raising her. I have a son who is a second grader, myself.

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Old 05-30-2013, 21:24   #19
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Surprise break (for you, not sure if she is ready for it yet):

Let's slow everything down. Let's make 5 bullets last you 30 minutes of intense brain strain. Stop blasting away (for a while, just to try something different).

You want a surprise break. You do not want to know when the gun will go BOOM. Your current problem is a flinch. If you know when the gun will fire, you will flinch. Low left is Glock for right handers. You are subconsciously anticipating the recoil. Flinching.

The cure is to not know when the gun will go BOOM. Thus, slow the trigger pull. Slow, very slow, but steady.

Align the sights, and begin. How slow and steady, like a train creeping into a railroad yard, can you pull the trigger? Can you take all of 30 seconds, once your trigger finger starts to pull? Don't start and stop. Instead, start and go as slow, steadily, as you can.

One half of your brain is keeping the sights aligned, the other half is slowly and steadily pulling the trigger.

Don't worry about your sights bouncing around. You can reduce that wobble, but not eliminate it. Don't stop your trigger pull to fix the sights. Instead your trigger pull must be steady. Mentally accept your sights bouncing around.

If you are really trying this, going slow, taking at least 30 seconds long for the trigger to be completely pulled, you will slowly feel the pressure build, but you don't know when the trigger will "break" and fire. BOOM! That shot was hopefully a surprise to you, with regard to the exact timing of it.

That was shot #1. All that mental preparation, and making your trigger finger go slow and steady. Now do it again. Aim the exact same way, keeping the sights aligned on the center of the bulls eye. Nevermind where that last shot went, it doesn't matter as long as it was safely down range.

Your eye focus should be crisply on the front sight. Keep it even with the rear sights, a nice even imaginary line across the top of all 3 ears of your sights. Equal white space (the air) on both sides of your front sight. Ignore any marks or dots on your sights, you are using the form of the sight itself. Keep focused on the front sight and keep that whole sight picture on the center of the bulls eye. Now begin the slow and steady 30 second trigger pull for shot #2. BOOM!

Rest if you want to, lower the gun to a 45 degree angle, pointing downrange a bit, not at the target, not at your feet, but somewheres between. Rest your elbows on your chest if that helps. Breath in and out counting to 10. Then begin the procedure for shot #3. Same as you did previously, all shots aimed the same way, ignoring the previous bullet holes.

BOOM! #4. After each shot you should still be aiming with your sights on target. You let the gun rise up. You know it will recoil and have blast and noise. Just let that happen. If indoors wear plugs and muffs. Accept the recoil. Don't try to tame it, not yet. After each shot when the gun comes naturally back down to target, focus your sights on target again. This is part of your follow through.

Rest if you need to, holding the gun at the 45 degree angle again. Now begin the procedure for shot number #5. Every shot done exactly the same way. As you stay focused on your front sight it might be useful the think about yourself pulling the trigger slowly straight back toward your rear sight. Still slow and steady, 30 seconds long to pull that trigger, every shot the same, the procedure the same. BOOM!

Ok, now after all 5 shots are done, you can finally check your target. How's it look? Put up a fresh target and clear your mind. Reload a mag with another grueling 5 rounds, and prepare to do the whole thing again.

If you are truly following the slow and steady part of this advice and getting a surprise break, then you will notice your group sizes getting smaller

Later down the road, after you've mastered this, you can work on speeding up the process.



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Old 05-31-2013, 00:53   #20
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Originally Posted by CarryTexas View Post
OP,

I hope you understand those of us that have pointed out safety issues. Some things that seem obvious to me may not to you. And no one wants to see a child hurt because we chose to stay quiet.

I think it is awesome you're getting to introduce your daughter to shooting. I look forward to the day when I can do the same with my kids now 4 & 6.

I would love to have my kids handling a gun as good as the girl in this video:
http://youtu.be/3f8VmJRuBFY
It's funny you choose that video because that is what has inspired my daughter and heck, I would love me to be handling a gun as that girl in the video. :P


@cfrye11 and IndyGunFreak, My intent was not to mock a safety check by any means, moreover I was pressing a point that I had a working firearm thanks to our 2nd amendment, and with that I am safe.


@ithaca_deerslayer, First, to answer your first question, No, nothing in the video was a gimmick, she was originally inspired by the video above when it was going around on Facebook a few months ago. She is completely 100% into the fun of shooting and is very much interested in getting into the sport of it as well. Also, the talk in the car on the ride home was just more like a winding down time, mostly to be taken with a light hearted humor as we live a little bit away from where we go to shoot, so we have a bit of a drive. It's a lot of work and energy shooting, haha, ya know.

Secondly, I don't want to dissuade anyone else from giving me advice here on any other forums that I am a member on, but you sir, have outdone yourself. I will be reading what you said a 3rd time and I definitely will be working on my shooting with that Surprise Break method. I can't thank you enough for all of your helpful advice. Again, a lot of people have said a lot of great things, so if you're reading this, thanks to you too. I certainly appreciate every bit of advice I get.

See, (and this should perhaps be on an intro thread but...) I am 37, I have 4 kids (one more on the way) and in all my years I had maybe shot a firearm a half a dozen times. Then after having kids, I was more inclined to not have a gun than to have one. But then, something sparked a thought, who knows maybe it was that crime is up or that there is an Administration trying to take them away, or at least make harder to get, that made me strongly consider becoming a gun owner.

No joke, I spent at the least, 6 month reading, reading, and more reading about guns, safety, different types, what bullets actually do when they penetrate and so on, but mostly reading about safety. For me, and especially having 4 kids, safety is the main factor. But it seems that all the reading and learning you do means nothing in the field when you actually have a loaded gun in your hand, or the hand of your child. Practice and experience are the only things that matters there, and that is why my daughter and I began this whole video blog. I don't expect to get rich and famous off of it, maybe I'll make 15 cents but eh, The fact that I can make a video, have it critiqued, and see what we are doing right and wrong is more priceless to me than anything.

So again, I thank everyone that is contributing to my daughter's and my success in becoming the best shooters we can be.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:45   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevyHD View Post
@cfrye11 and IndyGunFreak, My intent was not to mock a safety check by any means, moreover I was pressing a point that I had a working firearm thanks to our 2nd amendment, and with that I am safe.
Oh I got exactly what you were saying, but it looked like you were shooting the gun up in the air at first (generally, a dangerous thing to do... what goes up....). I assumed that was cfry's point. I got exactly what you were saying.

All in all, I thought it was a pretty good video. Couple things I'd suggest, but they've been touched on by other posters. One thing I noticed a couple times though, was it looked like her trigger finger was falling inside the trigger guard before she was on target. Finger straight, along the bottom of the slide until on target.

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The fire is no longer my major concern since I am leaving immediately on an unexpected road trip to Indianapolis. Watch the national news over the next couple of days, I'll wave... well, only if I'm cuffed in the front.
RIP Jack

Last edited by IndyGunFreak; 05-31-2013 at 01:49..
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:15   #22
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At 59 seconds was that gun chambered when she was pointing it at her foot?

The best part is that you obviously have a good relationship with your daughter.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:48   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
I think it's great that you are helping your daughter,,, ter learn to shoot. My 13 year old shoots uspsa, and makes me proud. A few observations since you asked:

I do not think your daughter is ready to draw a loaded gun from a holster, or to reholster. Not even close to ready.

As pointed out, your equipment isn't ideal either.

And, while I'm sure you will cherish the videos you make, I think you need a 3rd person involved. An experienced shooter needs to watch that girl like a hawk 100% of the time and should be within arms reach. That's hard to do if you're shooting video.

Best of luck, and stay safe!
I am taking this advice for me and my daughter, I will start teaching her soon, thank you...
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:26   #24
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Another thing I will add is that--as all parents know--it doesn't always work for us to play the role of teacher for our kids. For example, it doesn't work for me to teach math or skiing to my girls, and my skill level is "expert" in both. We hire a math tutor and pay for ski lessons.

Professional shooting instruction is well worth the investment!
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