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Old 05-19-2013, 20:15   #26
Vic Hays
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If that were true, then one must ask oneself why it is so important to believe in a servant. After all, many people would have regarded themselves as servants of God.
Heaven is not about being high and mighty. It is about being a servant to others.

Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Matthew 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Matthew 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 05-19-2013, 21:24   #27
wingryder
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Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
Heaven is not about being high and mighty. It is about being a servant to others.
So you spend a lifetime filled with guilt, self-loathing and shame to get to heaven.... only to become a servant? WTF?
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Old 05-19-2013, 21:31   #28
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Hmmm was Moses human?

Seems like alot of humans in the Bible were able todo miracles with the power of God.

Guess you have never read that before, huh?
Are you talking about the plagues sent against Egypt? Perhaps you haven't read the Bible, but Exodus makes it clear that those, and later events were the actions of God.

"Then the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me. For if thou refuse to let them go, and wilt hold them still, Behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be a very grievous murrain. And the Lord shall sever between the cattle of Israel and the cattle of Egypt: and there shall nothing die of all that is the children's of Israel.
And the Lord appointed a set time, saying, To morrow the Lord shall do this thing in the land. And the Lord did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one." (Exodus 9:1-6)

And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. (Exodus 14:21)

On the other hand, Jesus actions are attributed to him, not God,

"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it." (John 2:4-8)

These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

" And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full." (Matthew14:19-20)
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Old 05-19-2013, 21:42   #29
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So you spend a lifetime filled with guilt, self-loathing and shame to get to heaven.... only to become a servant? WTF?
Nobody gets to heaven by works alone (self-loathing, or always doing good, or going to church every week). A Christian is, by definition, Christ-like. Any amount of study of Christ's life will show that He spent his life serving others -- especially those that didn't deserve it.

There are plenty of Christ's own words urging us to throw off the bonds of slavery (sin) and follow Him -- to fear not. To think that after one is saved, one no longer sins is to truly miss what the Bible teaches about us humans.


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Old 05-20-2013, 06:23   #30
Vic Hays
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So you spend a lifetime filled with guilt, self-loathing and shame to get to heaven.... only to become a servant? WTF?
There is a difference between being a son or a servant. A son obeys his Father because of love and respect. A servant serves because he is required to.

Galatians 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God .

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
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Old 05-23-2013, 19:29   #31
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Christ didn't have to allow himself to be crucified. He did it because He had faith in the will of the Father.

Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
John 10:30

Jesus and Father are one. Who's right? Matthew or John?
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:01   #32
Vic Hays
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John 10:30

Jesus and Father are one. Who's right? Matthew or John?
Good question. The answer is how you interpret that word one. Here are some texts giving some insight into what sense the word one is being used.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Obviously being one does not mean being the same entity. Because as the next text shows we will retain our identity.

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The apparent use of the word"one" therefore is more like intimate knowledge or relationship.
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