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Old 05-18-2013, 17:44   #501
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Grisham's take on the "dash cam" hearing...
Quote:
JUDGE ORDERS RELEASE OF DASHCAM FOOTAGE
May 16 2013 — By CJ Grisham
Quote:
The decision came one day shy of the two months since my arrest. In spite of numerous open records requests by my attorney, Kurt W. Glass, and numerous watchdog groups, the prosecutor, police department, and 911 call center have refused to release any of the exculpatory evidence in my case.
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Old 05-18-2013, 18:29   #502
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He needs Johnny Cochrane.
"If the tape don't show it, you gotta let him go."
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Old 05-18-2013, 18:44   #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Grisham's take on the "dash cam" hearing...
Here's more...
Quote:
JUDGE ORDERS RELEASE OF DASHCAM FOOTAGE
May 16 2013 — By CJ Grisham
Quote:
visiting judge Neel Richardson ruled on a defense motion in my case to release dashcam footage.
Quote:
The decision also comes a mere two days after the Texas House voted to pass the Michael Morton Act (it was signed into law by Governor Perry today), a measure designed to prevent wrongful convictions and named in honor of a Texan who spent nearly 25 years in prison for a murder he did not commit. It would create a uniform “open file” policy in Texas, compelling prosecutors to share case files with defense attorneys that can help defendants’ cases.
Quote:
Here is the video of my arrest if you haven’t seen it yet. The dashcam footage shows only about two minutes prior to this, but those 2 minutes are extremely important…and gagged.
So what's the deal, is the dashcam footage being released in full or not?
I recommend reading the complete article
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Old 05-18-2013, 18:57   #504
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Originally Posted by OldSchool64 View Post
Here's more...So what's the deal, is the dashcam footage being released in full or not?
I recommend reading the complete article
Quote:
County Judge releases Dashcam of Grisham arrest
Quote:
Gags exhibition of video on Internet

Belton – A County Court at Law Judge granted a defense motion to discover the Dashcam video recording automatically made of the arrest of M/Sgt. C.J. Grisham for openly carrying a locked and loaded AR-15 on a rural Temple road.

At the same time, on the motion of an Assistant County Attorney, the judge entered a gag order to prevent the defendant or his attorney from displaying or releasing the video to air on YouTube.com, Vimeo, or any other internet address.
It's released, but not for distribution.
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Old 05-18-2013, 19:01   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool64 View Post
I recommend reading the complete article
What should we look for in the rest of the article?
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Old 05-18-2013, 19:10   #506
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What should we look for in the rest of the article?
Just a recommendation, I prefer to let people draw their own conclusions.
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Old 05-18-2013, 19:26   #507
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How about this...
Quote:
JUDGE ORDERS RELEASE OF DASHCAM FOOTAGE
May 16 2013 — By CJ Grisham
Quote:
Here is the video of my arrest if you haven’t seen it yet. The dashcam footage shows only about two minutes prior to this, but those 2 minutes are extremely important…and gagged.

"By preventing the video from getting out to the public, which could (would) generate further public support for my case..."

"...By delaying our ability to shed light upon the cockroaches infesting our city..."

"The longer they delay righting the wrongs that have propagated against me..."

"The problem in Texas is that too many prosecutors, including those in Bell County, only release this information when it helps their side of the case."

"...the prosecutor, police department, and 911 call center have refused to release any of the exculpatory evidence..."
While he can't post the video, he seems to be able to describe what it shows.
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Old 05-18-2013, 20:11   #508
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
How about this...While he can't post the video, he seems to be able to describe what it shows.
What he seems to be able to do, is make himself out to be the victim. As someone said about this before... "no doubt mistakes were made on both sides". It will be interesting to learn about all evidence available to the courts and what they have to say about it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 20:11   #509
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
How about this...While he can't post the video, he seems to be able to describe what it shows.
So...leos are cockroaches.

He blames the county attorney when the judge made the ruling.

He blames the 911 call center, the police department and the county attorney for not releasing evidence in an open investigation.

He claims to be financially affected by this case when he has raised enough money to fight this charge 2 or 3 times over.

I see him blaming everyone for everything and failing to take responsibility for his actions that, at least, contributed to the problem. Speaks to his character.

He wants to try this case in the media and the judge, basically, said no.

The case will be tried in a courtroom where it belongs...no matter how butt hurt he gets about it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 22:58   #510
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Nope, not the issue at all. Neither act alone justifies seizure.
Why are you attempting to argue with me?

I said above that it was neither here nor there ("not the issue at all") whether he walked away or remained. You made some dismissive comment.


Then I said other details will tell the tale. The finer points. I said we need the tape. Now you're saying that neither walking away or remaining alone justifies seizure. Which, of course, is exactly what I said.

So, again, where is the argument? What is your contrary position? To this point, you're simply agreeing with me in an obnoxious manner.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
The first sentence explains the second...
Yes. It does. I do not understand what was so offensive about my responses regarding the Case That Shall No Longer Be Mentioned.

I think I don't understand what was offensive about my response because nothing was, in fact, offensive. Again, just some strange need on your part to invent an argument where none exists.

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Old 05-19-2013, 06:04   #511
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Originally Posted by Gamma_Rat View Post
I think I don't understand what was offensive about my response because nothing was, in fact, offensive.
You walk hand in hand with a person who refers to all police officers as "cockroaches" and then you don't understand how you are offensive.

You are either stupid or passive/aggressive or both. Either way, Rat is a good hande for you.
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:20   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma_Rat View Post
Why are you attempting to argue with me?

I said above that it was neither here nor there ("not the issue at all") whether he walked away or remained. You made some dismissive comment.

Then I said other details will tell the tale. The finer points. I said we need the tape. Now you're saying that neither walking away or remaining alone justifies seizure. Which, of course, is exactly what I said.

So, again, where is the argument? What is your contrary position? To this point, you're simply agreeing with me in an obnoxious manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma_Rat View Post
"He chose to walk away" doesn't necessarily justify seizure by itself. "He chose to stay, so I seized him" doesn't justify seizure by itself.
Your quotes, obviously from an officer...never mind.

Yes, of course, in the gross evaluation of justification for seizure, you are correct.

Have you ever been deposed, a witness in a trial? Have you prepared testimony for a trial? Have you been a principal in a trial?
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:24   #513
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Duplicate...
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:38   #514
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Originally Posted by actionshooter10 View Post
So...leos are cockroaches.
Yup. That's what this flunky grisham said. Now you'd think that a guy who is a member of our Armed Services would be a little smarter than that considering what kind of words some people would use to describe everyone in his vocation. You'd think a guy who knows how our Viet Nam Vets were treated and what effect it had on them would be a little wiser about how he conducts himself. But no, he isn't.

Grisham is what we call a "one-way mother-****er". He is all about himself. He's going to have his little baby tantrum to get attention and he doesn't care how it refelects on him or anyone else. If it insults guys who ran into the WTC knowing they wouldn't come back out, he doesn't care. If it insults Police Offciers that serve and die in Iraq and Afghanistan, he doesn't care. If it embarrasses gun ownwers and makes it harder to protect 2A Rights, he doesn't care. If it jeopardizes his son's safety, he doesn't care. If he enbarrasses other Military personnel and lowers their public image, he doesn't care.

grisham is a selfish coward. We need to drop all pretexts about him being some kind of activist. He hides behind the heroic acts of people who wear the same uniform. Not every veteran is honorable. timmothy mccvay wore the same uniform grisham does, so did Lt Calley. It's time we start treating grisham the way he treats others, then maybe he will grow up and become an adult.
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:42   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma_Rat View Post
Yes. It does. I do not understand what was so offensive about my responses regarding the Case That Shall No Longer Be Mentioned.

I think I don't understand what was offensive about my response because nothing was, in fact, offensive. Again, just some strange need on your part to invent an argument where none exists.
I didn't say "offensive", now did I.

Neither did dugo use "offensive" in his post.

Where did "offensive" come from?
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:53   #516
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I see Grisham running for Temple City Council in the future.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:28   #517
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Your quotes, obviously from an officer...never mind.
?

Explain your position. You makes these cryptic, nonsensical one-liners, and then you use them to support some insinuation that I simply don't understand what you're trying to say or the issues at play. Well, take me by the hand and lead me. Point by point, lay it out there. How can I understand you when you won't clearly develop your arguments and lay them out there?



Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
Yes, of course, in the gross evaluation of justification for seizure, you are correct.
A "gross evaluation of justification for seizure" is called "a totality of the circumstances." When considering the legality of the seizure, that's all that matters, and that's what I was talking about. Which, of course, is why I said that leaving or staying, in isolation, really doesn't matter to me.......if he wasn't initially seized.

Again, here we are with five or six posts regarding one comment I made, and, still, you've not made a plain argument against some point of contention.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Russp
Have you ever been deposed, a witness in a trial? Have you prepared testimony for a trial? Have you been a principal in a trial?
I've been a witness to a felony perpetrated against another person, and I've been the object of a felony. Both instances required dealing with police, prosecutors, and appearances in court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
I didn't say "offensive", now did I.

Neither did dugo use "offensive" in his post.

Where did "offensive" come from?


The attempt at argument, the sarcasm, the pejorative one-liners............they all suggest that my posts "offend" in some way. That there's some issue of contention in my posts. There's more than one use for the word, you know.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:40   #518
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
You walk hand in hand with a person who refers to all police officers as "cockroaches" and then you don't understand how you are offensive.
I don't walk hand-in-hand with anyone. Ever. I've said before that Grisham should have kept his cool. I've got plenty of criticism for Grisham. That comes after the rule of law is upheld.

But I didn't see Grisham referring to all cops as cockroaches. Maybe I read it wrong, but it looked to me like he was referring to anyone in the local government who wasn't working toward Constitutional integrity and the open, honest, honorable process of the law. He didn't seem to make distinction between vocation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
You are either stupid or passive/aggressive or both.
Neither. Simply because someone needs to grow up and look beyond their hurt feelings doesn't mean I'm passive/aggressive.

Stupid? That's rich coming from you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
Either way, Rat is a good hande for you.
You're never heard the reference before, have you? "Gamma rat."

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Old 05-19-2013, 11:34   #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
How about this...While he can't post the video, he seems to be able to describe what it shows.

Color me skeptical, but I would prefer to view the video myself and draw my own conclusions.
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Old 05-19-2013, 13:21   #520
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
You walk hand in hand with a person who refers to all police officers as "cockroaches" and then you don't understand how you are offensive.

You are either stupid or passive/aggressive or both. Either way, Rat is a good hande for you.
Where did you read that Grisham thinks that all police officers are cockroaches? The only cockroach reference that I have seen is in the blog that RussP posted and it is evident that Grisham is talking about folks in Temple TX, as he referenced "in this city". I have never been to Temple. Maybe the folks he is talking about are cockroaches. I don't know. I do know that he did not say all police officers are cockroaches, at least not in that article. If you have read otherwise, please post a link.
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Old 05-19-2013, 16:56   #521
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Originally Posted by Stevekozak View Post
Where did you read that Grisham thinks that all police officers are cockroaches? The only cockroach reference that I have seen is in the blog that RussP posted and it is evident that Grisham is talking about folks in Temple TX, as he referenced "in this city". I have never been to Temple. Maybe the folks he is talking about are cockroaches. I don't know. I do know that he did not say all police officers are cockroaches, at least not in that article. If you have read otherwise, please post a link.
Really? Are you that incapable of comprehending his words, or are you deliberately trying to deny what he said?

Quote:
"...By delaying our ability to shed light upon the cockroaches infesting our city..."

Who do you think he was talking about here? Context is important. You were taught that in 3rd grade. He is involved in a dispute with LEOs in his city, in that context he refers to cockroaches in his city. Are you going to argue he was talking about the public works department? You might be trying to parse grishams words, but he isn't.
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Old 05-19-2013, 17:03   #522
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
Really? Are you that incapable of comprehending his words, or are you deliberately trying to deny what he said?




Who do you think he was talking about here? Context is important. You were taught that in 3rd grade. He is involved in a dispute with LEOs in his city, in that context he refers to cockroaches in his city. Are you going to argue he was talking about the public works department? You might be trying to parse grishams words, but he isn't.
I think you need to go back and reread the blog post. IIRC, he mentioned several examples of municipal employees before the "cockroach" comment.

This is what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
You walk hand in hand with a person who refers to all police officers as "cockroaches" and then you don't understand how you are offensive.
I don't know where you get that. It certainly isn't in the blog post. Perhaps you should think before you speak.
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Old 05-19-2013, 17:12   #523
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Originally Posted by Gamma_Rat View Post
I don't walk hand-in-hand with anyone. Ever.
You've been carrying grisham's water here all along. You claim you have criticisms of his actions, and then you go on to defend his actions. You and grisham are two sides of the same counterfeit coin.

Grisham acted like a twit. He got treated with courtesy and professionalism. I wouldn't have grabbed grisham's rifle. I would have ordered him to turn around and go prone. Any action other than that would have resulted in him being struck by my gunfire. It's as simple as that.

In a world where this is becoming more and more common, I wouldn't have been as understanding as the Temple PD Officers:


And, while you might not be intelligent to include incidents like the above shootout in the Officers' frame of mind when they secured grisham's rifle, you can be sure the judge that hears this case, if it even goes to trial, will.

Your complete lack of real world LE experience shows in the way you have no clue the amount of leeway courts award to Officers regarding their actions to make a scene safe. All the posters in here who have actual LE experience understand this and frankly have been goofing on you this whole time. This case wouldn't take up more than 30 minutes in a court before the judge ruled. You go into all of this goofy case law stuff, I'll tell you flat out that stuff only happens in watershead cases. No judge is going to allow constant motions on nonsense like you think is going to be heard.

An agitated man with a rifle in his hands, a 911 call, and a minor in possible danger, yeah, it's completely unreasonable for the Police to disarm the guy
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Old 05-19-2013, 17:17   #524
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I think you need to go back and reread the blog post. IIRC, he mentioned several examples of municipal employees before the "cockroach" comment.
You're correct. It is not LEO's he is disputing, it's the parks and recreation department that are a threat to his Rights
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Old 05-19-2013, 17:39   #525
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You've been carrying grisham's water here all along. You claim you have criticisms of his actions, and then you go on to defend his actions. You and grisham are two sides of the same counterfeit coin.
I do have criticisms of Grisham. None of them involve a known violation of the law.

It may come as a shock to you, but unpopular lawful behavior is still lawful, and that's all that matters in a police/citizen encounter that involves a seizure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
He got treated with courtesy and professionalism.
How do you know? We have to see the vid and hear the 911 call. I would hardly consider effecting an unlawful seizure to be professional behavior from a cop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
I wouldn't have grabbed grisham's rifle. I would have ordered him to turn around and go prone.
Based on what? Make an articulation that justifies seizure.









Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
In a world where this is becoming more and more common, I wouldn't have been as understanding as the Temple PD Officers:



Caught On Cam - Police Traffic Stop Shooting With An AK47 - YouTube
You need to check the statistics. Last I looked, violence against police was not at all on the rise.

But, more to the point, you're being sensational. Spare me. Liberty is dangerous, but it's preferable to the alternative. We all take that risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
And, while you might not be intelligent to include incidents like the above shootout in the Officers' frame of mind when they secured grisham's rifle, you can be sure the judge that hears this case, if it even goes to trial, will.
If a cop is wound that tight, perhaps he should seek some professional counseling. What we see in the video above is an outlier. This is simply not how so many police/citizen encounters go.

How often do you tremble and fret when you enter a school or go to the mall or a post office or a Luby's?

Give me a break.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
Your complete lack of real world LE experience shows in the way you have no clue the amount of leeway courts award to Officers regarding their actions to make a scene safe.
Oh my. You don't think I understand exactly what our judiciary has done to our liberty?

I had to reread Arizona v. Gant about fifty times before I believed it. Scalia himself actually referred to the former bright line rule as a "charade." Given the trend in Fourth Amendment jurisprudence over that last forty years, I was floored to read this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
All the posters in here who have actual LE experience understand this and frankly have been goofing on you this whole time. This case wouldn't take up more than 30 minutes in a court before the judge ruled. You go into all of this goofy case law stuff, I'll tell you flat out that stuff only happens in watershead cases. No judge is going to allow constant motions on nonsense like you think is going to be heard.
We'll see.

And I think we'll revisit this post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
An agitated man with a rifle in his hands, a 911 call, and a minor in possible danger, yeah, it's completely unreasonable for the Police to disarm the guy
Where do you see that the minor is possibly in danger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
You're correct. It is not LEO's he is disputing, it's the parks and recreation department that are a threat to his Rights
He mentioned several folks. Not just cops. And he didn't make reference to "all" of them, either. You're just fabricating that.
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