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Old 05-08-2013, 14:24   #26
GlockinNJ
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I hope he handles his .45 better than his camera!

Otherwise, point well made sir!
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Old 05-08-2013, 14:26   #27
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Originally Posted by pizza_pablo View Post
Revised Code of Washington 9.41.280

Quote:
(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

With that in mind, one could carry on school grounds, when the building is being used fro something other than a shool only function.
You're dangerously misreading that. For starters, a school is always a school, no matter what it's being used for at any specific or given time. The part about being used exclusively by public or private schools applies to ANY OTHER facility or place. In other words, if a school (public or private) rents a hall or other facility for their exclusive use at that time, then it's considered a school function (at that specific time) and carry is banned there. We have a similar law here in TX.

Your declaration that one could carry on school grounds when it's being used for something else is wrong, a dangerous thing to test out, and poorly misread.
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Old 05-08-2013, 14:35   #28
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Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
Is Michigan the only state that allows any type of carry in schools?

Can teachers open carry in Mich?
You can carry in Alaska with permission from a school administrator.
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Old 05-08-2013, 16:12   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pizza_pablo Carry Issues
Revised Code of Washington 9.41.280

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

With that in mind, one could carry on school grounds, when the building is being used fro something other than a shool only function.
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You're dangerously misreading that. For starters, a school is always a school, no matter what it's being used for at any specific or given time. The part about being used exclusively by public or private schools applies to ANY OTHER facility or place. In other words, if a school (public or private) rents a hall or other facility for their exclusive use at that time, then it's considered a school function (at that specific time) and carry is banned there. We have a similar law here in TX.

Your declaration that one could carry on school grounds when it's being used for something else is wrong, a dangerous thing to test out, and poorly misread.
I believe that YOUR interpretation is incorrect, sir.
It states school premisis. I don't see how that could be comprehended to mean another facility.
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Old 05-08-2013, 16:46   #30
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Originally Posted by dpadams6 View Post
The more people that test this, just to prove a point, will be the downfall of the loophole in the law that, for the time being, makes this still legal.
So what good is it if you can't use it?
If no one "tests it" then no one is using it and it might as well not exist.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Old 05-08-2013, 20:14   #31
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Originally Posted by pizza_pablo View Post
I believe that YOUR interpretation is incorrect, sir.
It states school premisis. I don't see how that could be comprehended to mean another facility.
Sounds like the kind of issue that might best be clarified by an assistant district or state attorney.
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:00   #32
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Good story, I like it

I don't open carry but occasionally I'll see someone who is.
I respect that, and I usually think to myself "that's pretty cool"
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:39   #33
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Originally Posted by pizza_pablo View Post
I believe that YOUR interpretation is incorrect, sir.
It states school premisis. I don't see how that could be comprehended to mean another facility.
I agree with LORD on this. The law is written to be broken up into three different parts. Lets break it down: the beginning of starts off by saying it is unlawful to carry onto or possess on (that's pretty easy to follow). What comes next are the three SEPARATE instances where it is unlawful to carry. It is important to note that anyone with a fifth grade reading level can see that these three points are meant to be exclusive from each other. They are mutually exclusive. Meaning they do not depend on one another and only one has to occur for the law to be broken. We know this because we can read the commas and the oh so important word 'OR' in the statement.

The first instance is on public or private elementary or secondary school premises (in red below).

The second instance is on school-provided transportation. (In blue below). This is most commonly going to be a school bus.

The third instance are areas of facilities that are being used only by schools (in green below). "Facilities" in this third instance is not referring to "premises" from the first instance. In Florida there is a similar law that pertains to bus stops. It is illegal to carry a firearm near a bus stop while a school bus is present. However, when there is no school bus present it is not illegal. In this case the bus stop is considered a "facility" that is being used exclusively by schools when the bus is present. Facilities also pertain to what you would define as any sort of facility. It can be a park that is being used by the school for an award ceremony or anything of the sort.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools

I understand where you are coming form pablo but had they wanted it to mean what you think it means it would look more like: "it is unlawful for a person to carry onto public school premises while facilities are being used exclusively by public schools". There would be no separation of context.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:53   #34
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I'm glad it worked out for dad. I just never want to draw that much attention to myself.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:09   #35
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So, the word "facilities" does not refer to the school building? Huh. I reckon I'll have to contact the state atty general or someone for clarification.
If how you guys have interpreted it is correct I'll be severly bummed.
Thanks to Lord and Citadel, for pointing this out.
I thought I was good to go. So much for reading and knowing your states laws. Between state and fed there is a large myriad to decipher. It should just be Constitutional carry throughout the land. I seriously don't understand how folks think criminals will obey laws.
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Originally Posted by Citadel15L View Post
I agree with LORD on this. The law is written to be broken up into three different parts. Lets break it down: the beginning of starts off by saying it is unlawful to carry onto or possess on (that's pretty easy to follow). What comes next are the three SEPARATE instances where it is unlawful to carry. It is important to note that anyone with a fifth grade reading level can see that these three points are meant to be exclusive from each other. They are mutually exclusive. Meaning they do not depend on one another and only one has to occur for the law to be broken. We know this because we can read the commas and the oh so important word 'OR' in the statement.

The first instance is on public or private elementary or secondary school premises (in red below).

The second instance is on school-provided transportation. (In blue below). This is most commonly going to be a school bus.

The third instance are areas of facilities that are being used only by schools (in green below). "Facilities" in this third instance is not referring to "premises" from the first instance. In Florida there is a similar law that pertains to bus stops. It is illegal to carry a firearm near a bus stop while a school bus is present. However, when there is no school bus present it is not illegal. In this case the bus stop is considered a "facility" that is being used exclusively by schools when the bus is present. Facilities also pertain to what you would define as any sort of facility. It can be a park that is being used by the school for an award ceremony or anything of the sort.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools

I understand where you are coming form pablo but had they wanted it to mean what you think it means it would look more like: "it is unlawful for a person to carry onto public school premises while facilities are being used exclusively by public schools". There would be no separation of context.
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Old 05-09-2013, 13:14   #36
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So what good is it if you can't use it?
If no one "tests it" then no one is using it and it might as well not exist.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
What would be one good reason for doing such a thing in the first place? I see no advantage what so ever. Unless, of course, your trying to prove a point. And being how the liberals think, it will not just be open carrying in a school that they want to make illegal. They'll try other circumstances as well.
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Old 05-09-2013, 13:16   #37
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Originally Posted by DonMerlin View Post
I'm glad it worked out for dad. I just never want to draw that much attention to myself.
Yeah. From a safety perspective, and having the option to conceal, it's utterly foolish to open carry. ESPECIALLY in a school.
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Old 05-09-2013, 14:46   #38
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Originally Posted by pizza_pablo View Post
So, the word "facilities" does not refer to the school building? Huh. I reckon I'll have to contact the state atty general or someone for clarification.
If how you guys have interpreted it is correct I'll be severly bummed.
Thanks to Lord and Citadel, for pointing this out.
I thought I was good to go. So much for reading and knowing your states laws. Between state and fed there is a large myriad to decipher. It should just be Constitutional carry throughout the land. I seriously don't understand how folks think criminals will obey laws.
It's all good here. Better to debate a subject and come out smarter in the end than to find out the hard way that one was wrong. I went ahead and spoke to a couple of attorney friends of mine (one is a retired police officer) and they agree with our interpretation of it. Citadel's breakdown is done very well on it.
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Old 05-09-2013, 15:18   #39
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What would be one good reason for doing such a thing in the first place? I see no advantage what so ever. Unless, of course, your trying to prove a point. And being how the liberals think, it will not just be open carrying in a school that they want to make illegal. They'll try other circumstances as well.
I carry a gun to protect myself and my family. If my only option was to open carry on school property I would. Unfortunately not even open carry is allowed in schools here so it stays legally in my car when I am in the school.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Old 05-09-2013, 20:18   #40
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I carry a gun to protect myself and my family. If my only option was to open carry on school property I would. Unfortunately not even open carry is allowed in schools here so it stays legally in my car when I am in the school.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
Here in Michigan it is legal to open carry in a school if you have cpl, but it's kind of a loophole in the law and just a matter of time before it will be illegal. The more people that test this in schools and obviously have police come with guns drawn, the sooner it will be illegal. The public is not going to go for people open carrying guns in schools with everything going on these days.
I also see what you mean if conceal is not an option, then I would open carry too verses not carrying at all.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:12   #41
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Originally Posted by dpadams6 View Post
Here in Michigan it is legal to open carry in a school if you have cpl, but it's kind of a loophole in the law and just a matter of time before it will be illegal. The more people that test this in schools and obviously have police come with guns drawn, the sooner it will be illegal. The public is not going to go for people open carrying guns in schools with everything going on these days.
I also see what you mean if conceal is not an option, then I would open carry too verses not carrying at all.
I think you should give more credit to "the public". I believe there are more sensible folks than retards. The retards just get a louder voice because they have the support of the MSM and administration....for now.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:54   #42
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The more people that test this, just to prove a point, will be the downfall of the loophole in the law that, for the time being, makes this still legal.
It was already on the chopping block to be closed in the last round of gun law changes which Snyder did not sign.

Its on the radar.

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Old 05-10-2013, 14:46   #43
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What would be one good reason for doing such a thing in the first place? I see no advantage what so ever. Unless, of course, your trying to prove a point. And being how the liberals think, it will not just be open carrying in a school that they want to make illegal. They'll try other circumstances as well.
One good reason is the same as why you have a permit to carry. Another good reason is the same as why you have the right to keep and bear. Another good reason is the first amendment. another is the second. then the third...

27 pretty good reasons. Why have a right if it's not used or exercised. Give me one good reason why one shouldn't exercise their rights.
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Old 05-10-2013, 15:34   #44
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I think you should give more credit to "the public". I believe there are more sensible folks than retards. The retards just get a louder voice because they have the support of the MSM and administration....for now.
Yes, id like to give more credit, until this last election results. More than majority fell for the liberal msm bull****.
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Old 05-10-2013, 15:36   #45
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It was already on the chopping block to be closed in the last round of gun law changes which Snyder did not sign.

Its on the radar.

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Wow. I did not know that.
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Old 05-10-2013, 15:47   #46
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One good reason is the same as why you have a permit to carry. Another good reason is the same as why you have the right to keep and bear. Another good reason is the first amendment. another is the second. then the third...

27 pretty good reasons. Why have a right if it's not used or exercised. Give me one good reason why one shouldn't exercise their rights.
I'm 100% for law abiding citizens having the right to carry firearms. However, the majority of the public will NEVER be comfortable with other citizens OPEN CARRYING in public, certainly not public schools where children are. I can carry anywhere here, but choose never to open carry, partially for this reason and more so because its just not sound safe tactics. And I fear that the more open carry there is where citizens call the police (the majority of the time) it will not only be open carry that the lib's target, but ccw as well. And we all know that the msm is definately not on our side on this one.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:26   #47
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Originally Posted by dpadams6 View Post
I'm 100% for law abiding citizens having the right to carry firearms. However, the majority of the public will NEVER be comfortable with other citizens OPEN CARRYING in public, certainly not public schools where children are. I can carry anywhere here, but choose never to open carry, partially for this reason and more so because its just not sound safe tactics. And I fear that the more open carry there is where citizens call the police (the majority of the time) it will not only be open carry that the lib's target, but ccw as well. And we all know that the msm is definately not on our side on this one.
How do you know the majority will not accept it? That's a very blanket generic statement/opinion. I think you are wrong. I haven't had any issues with MWG while open carrying. And from the LEOs in my area, they haven't responded to very many over the last several years. Your presumption seems to be an internal fear you have; not factual.

The second underline part is the point...it is a choice. You choose not to, I choose to do so. Why should I not? Because YOU have feeling otherwise? Of course not.

To the third underlined.....Why isn't it safe tactics?

More open carry will effect CCW? Not sure I follow that train of thought. In my state it isn't so. Our legislators just passed open carry with a CCW in those places a municipality has prohibited it. they also just reduce the CCW age to 19. they also allowed teachers to carry in school.

So, no offense, you reasoning doesn't hold a lot of water with my state.



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Old 05-13-2013, 11:10   #48
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Some gunowners are our own worst enemies and might as well campaign for the anti-gunners for all the good they do.

How can anyone with a brain cell complain when someone OC's because, "It might get banned". If no one is OCing for that reason, then it already is banned by default. Get a clue.

When someone complains that, "The more people OC, the more complaints there are going to be by scared people." How do think the public will ever get conditioned to see guns as normal if they don't ever get used to seeing them?

When somone says, "I CC and would never OC and you shouldn't either", they are as bad as the liberal politicians who say, "I can own a gun and have bodyguards but you can't." Freedom means not restricting other peoples choices even if you don't agree with them. Don't spout off about being Pro-2A if you don't want people to OC because that would make you a disgusting hypocrite only believing in the 2A as it suits you. Just like Fudds saying they are Pro-2A but don't think people should own ARs or standard capacity magazines.

One of the worst complaints on this thread is that the guy in the news report and everyone else has no conceivable business carrying at all in a school. You are the reason why Pistol-free zones exist and why we now have victim-only zones for mass-murderers!
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:40   #49
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Yes, id like to give more credit, until this last election results. More than majority fell for the liberal msm bull****.
I do not believe obummer "won", on the up and up. I believe many "votes" were rigged.
He did not win in any districts where voter ID is required.
MANY precincts reported over 100% of the votes were returned (Ohio and Florida to name the ones I read about). Supposedly EVERY precinct in Philadelphia went 100% for you-know-who. No, I do NOT believe this last "election" was anything of the sort.
Ron Simms was in charge of voting, for King County (Seattle), WA, when the governors race was stolen from a Republican after three recounts, which were not recounts, but had added "found" votes.
When obummer "won" the first time, he promptly put Ron Simms on his cabinet. Most likely figuring 'if a Governor's race can be fixed, why not a Presidency'.
Am I skeptical of the entire system? YES! Heck! I don't hardly watch sprts any, because I think that is all rigged too.
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Old 05-13-2013, 13:30   #50
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Good story, I like it

I don't open carry but occasionally I'll see someone who is.
I respect that, and I usually think to myself "that's pretty cool"
I OC into NH because I don't have the $100 CCW license yet. No one seems to care much.
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