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Old 05-07-2013, 12:24   #1
Bob Hafler
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Glock Loosing ground to S&W

I've been noticing quite a few smaller PD's in my area switching from Glocks. Looks like they lost another pretty good size account in Texas.

http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/texas...)&utm_content=
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:48   #2
CMG
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It's good to see S&W finally build a Glock-style pistol folks actually like (unlike their first attempt).
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Old 05-07-2013, 13:12   #3
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Glad to hear it. Glock needs to be knocked down a couple of notches since they seem to know what's best for their customers and ignore suggestions and requests.
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Old 05-07-2013, 13:28   #4
G26S239
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The only M&P I own is the M&P40c. It is a solid little gun, I like it. It will probably remain my only M&P but I understand why people like the series.
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Old 05-07-2013, 13:48   #5
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Sold the last of the glocks last December. Running all M&P now and couldn't be happier.

They are great pistols.
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Old 05-07-2013, 13:53   #6
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I wonder if Glock and Smith, etc. actually make a ton of money from these department purchases or if its purpose is just for locking in marketing collateral.

They seem to sell them to the departments for peanuts so, just talking out my hole, I would imagine they would each like to get their product in as many departments as possible so they can say "carried by 65% of the nations officers."

I expect they know that that kind of marketing clout will directly influence civilian sales and locations where the officers have to purchase their own firearm.

Anyway, I like the M&P a lot. I have the 45c and 9c. Great pistols.

I'm also glad Smith & Wesson is giving them some solid competition. It's good for everyone when the manufacturers are more motivated.
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Last edited by HKLovingIT; 05-07-2013 at 13:55..
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:17   #7
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When they decide to make a stock trigger that doesn't feel like its going to snap in half or have a pull similar to the feel of a bag of broken potato chips I'll buy another.they are pretty comfortable in the hand
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03scgt View Post
When they decide to make a stock trigger that doesn't feel like its going to snap in half or have a pull similar to the feel of a bag of broken potato chips I'll buy another.they are pretty comfortable in the hand
This.

Supposedly this has been fixed with the newer models. My disappointing journey into the world of M&P left a bad taste in my mouth though- crap triggers, and after you rebuild the whole FCG with aftermarket Apex parts the barrel itself is incapable of producing acceptable accuracy.

People seem to have limitless patience for these guns though, even among some serious folks, which amazes me.

I put them right next to XD. Not ready for Prime Time.
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:25   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
I wonder if Glock and Smith, etc. actually make a ton of money from these department purchases or if its purpose is just for locking in marketing collateral.

They seem to sell them to the departments for peanuts so, just talking out my hole, I would imagine they would each like to get their product in as many departments as possible so they can say "carried by 65% of the nations officers."

I expect they know that that kind of marketing clout will directly influence civilian sales and locations where the officers have to purchase their own firearm.

Anyway, I like the M&P a lot. I have the 45c and 9c. Great pistols.

I'm also glad Smith & Wesson is giving them some solid competition. It's good for everyone when the manufacturers are more motivated.
They make money on accessories and parts supply too, don't forget. Not to mention that mark-up is pretty high. For example, back in the mid-1980s, Colt AR-15s were MSRPed for around $750. Colt sold the M16A2 to Uncle Sam for $135. Steyr AUG was MSRPed for $1200. Steyr reps told me that they'd be willing to sell to Uncle Sam for about $190.

So, a Glock/M&P is MSRP at about $550? They could probably sell the various LEAs for half that and till make money.
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:35   #10
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Have you seen Hickock's video of him shooting a M&P Pro? No doubt he is a great shooter but he was like a kid in a candy store with that thing.
It's not just S&W that is turning the heat up on Glock. Their LE market is still strong but in civilian sales there alot of great pistols on the market now.
I don't own a M&P but after watching that Pro Series run I got this tingling sensation running all the way up my leg...
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:37   #11
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Originally Posted by m2hmghb View Post
Glad to hear it. Glock needs to be knocked down a couple of notches since they seem to know what's best for their customers and ignore suggestions and requests.
- Single stack

- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market?
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:41   #12
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I couldn't be happier with my M&P45 full size. I can see why many departments have changed to S&W.
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:54   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjv View Post
- Single stack

- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market?
Maybe because Herr Glock's lead firearms engineer went to work for Caracal?
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:54   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
So, a Glock/M&P is MSRP at about $550? They could probably sell the various LEAs for half that and till make money.
LE officer price on an M&P is $398 with the 3mags, and I'm sure they're making good money on that.

Last edited by vista461; 05-07-2013 at 14:56..
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:55   #15
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I admit that I find them more comfortable to hold and shoot. Too bad I can't hit anything with them like I can with my G17. I'm sure I could do better with practice, but I shot the Glock pretty damn well from the first shot, despite its blocky shape and lack of ergonomics. I'm a "dance with the one that brung ya" type, so I'll pass.
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Old 05-07-2013, 15:00   #16
ohio mossy oak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03scgt View Post
When they decide to make a stock trigger that doesn't feel like its going to snap in half or have a pull similar to the feel of a bag of broken potato chips I'll buy another.they are pretty comfortable in the hand



This


Quote:
Originally Posted by wjv View Post
- Single stack
Q
- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market?

The latter would be awesome imo..
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Old 05-07-2013, 15:00   #17
KalashniKEV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Maybe because Herr Glock's lead firearms engineer went to work for Caracal?
...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

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Old 05-07-2013, 15:08   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

And we all know how many "product improvements" that Glock had gone through too, huh?
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Old 05-07-2013, 15:27   #19
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the first glock that s&w built was the sigma. i had the sigma 40ve(?). it was a pretty darn good gun in my opinion.

would like a sigma 9v stainless if i could find one locally for trade...
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Old 05-07-2013, 15:32   #20
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

I acutally consider the Steyr superior to the glock..I think the Steyr is what the Glock inspired to be. lol...I think the biggest reason is the Steyr actually feels better in my hand and the Glock feels like holding a brick sideways in my hand
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