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Old 04-22-2013, 22:52   #221
darthchicken
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You don't even need to buy a 3d printer. If you can find somebody that can design what you want, you can just post it up on shapeways.com and buy straight from them. I don't know anything about 3d printing or design work, but I've seen some pretty crazy things from folks using this service

http://www.shapeways.com/create?li=home-create
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:43   #222
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Originally Posted by Aglifter View Post
If someone wants to send me the designs, I can see if the machinist we use on a regular basis, can do it.

We have a good relationship with him.
People... i do not sit and monitor this thread. And, I never get any notices from GT that anyone has posted on this. Those who think they can help make this project happen need to at least pm me so i can be made aware. Better yet, call me:

Brooks 253-549-2866
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:53   #223
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Development Update!

Ok, so i was sitting there staring at the .223XR drawings and all of a sudden something SO FREAKING OBVIOUS suddenly dawned on me... A POSSIBLE CHEAP AND EASY SOLUTION... so i contacted the guy who's dad makes the sabots for a bunch of other calibers.... and we had a really good talk... discussed a bunch of stuff... he loved the .223XR idea, but said he still didn't have anything ready made and that tooling would cost about $10,000... So i discussed my "cheap and simple" idea with him... and he said he had never thought of it! He also said that it might solve (i think it would solve) product need solutions some of his customers have been begging for (like the government)... So, i'm like; COOL!!! I told him that if he patents it to please put my name on the patent somewhere... and to call me if he needed help with it.

At any rate..... This is just way to simple, easy to make, and cheap to make to just sit around waiting for someone else to do, so i am going to do it myself. I just need to get a couple of fairly inexpensive tools and the material to make the sabot, etc., and get jiggie with it. We may have these soon... prototypes to test, anyway, and i think the prototypes will work from the git go... and... i also found a new plastics distributor that is LOCAL... so i'll call them Monday to find out what they have...
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Old 10-09-2013, 23:59   #224
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And on this day it was done...

The .223 XR is ALIVE...

It EXISTS...

It's REAL...

AND... at the moment, it weighs 95 grains with a 55 grain .223 bullet...

AND... don't tell anybody... but i made the sabot out of Teflon...

Shhhhhhhhh.....



Hey, anyone live near Tacoma with a chrono?
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:35   #225
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:28   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz10m View Post
And on this day it was done...

The .223 XR is ALIVE...

It EXISTS...

It's REAL...

AND... at the moment, it weighs 95 grains with a 55 grain .223 bullet...

AND... don't tell anybody... but i made the sabot out of Teflon...

Shhhhhhhhh.....



Hey, anyone live near Tacoma with a chrono?
Photo please.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:18   #227
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It Exists?

Well Tazz, it blows my mind that you could have gotten it to exist without working up loads with the feedback of a chronograph but we can leave that alone for the moment....

A couple of questions;

Did you have a case die made for it, if not how are you loading the cartridges to run thru a chrono?
What is the overall cartridge length?
Do you know the angle of the cartridge shoulder?
Who made your barrel and how long is it?
What is the loading data your using for the 55 grain bullet, ie; powder make and number of grains?
Are you crimpling the bullet?

Of course the lack of a picture, kinda predicts where this is going....however, the answers to the above, should help clear things up a bit and give us an idea of how you cobbled it. BTW, I have a chronograph, I wouldn't work up a standard 10mm load without one and to consider working up an experimental load without one; well, it would be laughable, if it wasn't so sad to think of risks a young mind would be exposed too.....

Ok Tazz redeem yourself, if you can!
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:56   #228
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Tazz, please send some samples to the Shadow!

Or just post some pics before and after loaded and shot...
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:08   #229
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Who let poochg the dog out of the dungeon? Throw him back in... and toss in a little torture, while your at it..!
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Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGripô!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

Brooks W. Speier

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Official AGripô Manufacturer Website

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Never let anyone who is clueless about defense tell you what you can and can't do to protect yourself and others.

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Old 10-10-2013, 17:02   #230
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Tazz,
One quick, simple question.
Will your "simple solution" be commercially viable ?
If it can be made at a profit, it will LIVE !!

Been waiting for this for a while, & congratz !

uncle albert
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Old 10-10-2013, 17:44   #231
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You cant touch this dog, so forget about your beast master day dreams and show us the money!!!!
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Old 10-10-2013, 18:05   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VN350X10 View Post
Tazz,
One quick, simple question.
Will your "simple solution" be commercially viable ?
If it can be made at a profit, it will LIVE !!

Been waiting for this for a while, & congratz !

uncle albert
Yes, easily. Several ways to go about it, and i'm in talks with people right now about that. I'm not saying it's going to be all that cheap to start with, but if the fun of it all gets enough people going on it, the costs will go down and the profit will go up. Right now, each sabot is being made one at a time... and it ain't all that quick. But, considering how much fun i'm having, i don't care so much about the time...although, eventually time will become a huge consideration. PTFE is a bit on the expensive side, also... especially when we kick up to the better grades. The grade i'm using right now is kind of strange to machine, but, it works.

I'll have some pictures as soon as i can.

Hey, ya know how to make Teflon even slippery'r?

Get it soapy.
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Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGripô!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

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Old 10-10-2013, 18:48   #233
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Originally Posted by Tazz10m View Post
Yes, easily. Several ways to go about it, and i'm in talks with people right now about that.
You could of course load with trailboss. This should keep you in the safe zone, but I don't expect it will cycle and you will not be pushing it fast.

I would suggest using one of the computer programs. This should get you close. Then shoot over a chroni.

Be safe as you develop your loads.

As far as commercially viable, I don't think it will be. But then again I have a 300-221 and I never thought that there would be a blackout.
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Old 10-10-2013, 19:43   #234
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Neat project Tazz. Thanks for the update.

Photos please!!!
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Old 10-10-2013, 20:48   #235
Tazz10m
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Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
You could of course load with trailboss. This should keep you in the safe zone, but I don't expect it will cycle and you will not be pushing it fast.

I would suggest using one of the computer programs. This should get you close. Then shoot over a chroni.

Be safe as you develop your loads.

As far as commercially viable, I don't think it will be. But then again I have a 300-221 and I never thought that there would be a blackout.
Load development is not that difficult because i am using PTFE for the sabot. PTFE is very soft and VERY slippery. The difficulty is not so much holding pressures back, but rather getting pressures UP. But i have some little tricks to do that and have already incorporated some of them, so, basically all i have to do is keep "turning the dial" until i get the pressures optimized.

The .223 XR now exists, but, there is a lot of "balancing" to be done before it's going to be optimized. I just have to play with it a bit and see what it does under different pressures, and i'm not just talking powder pressures. There are all sorts of crazy pressures going against this thing from literally every direction. As the pressures get up there we may find the sabot blowing past the bullet in the barrel and i'll have to dig back into my bag of tricks. I actually expect this to happen... so if it doesn't, i'll be really surprised.

Also, for the record, i've never seen anyone else use PTFE for a sabot... so this may be a first. But if anybody knows of or can find any PTFE sabots out there for anything, report it back here. Usually UHMW plastic is used.
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Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGripô!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

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Official AGripô Manufacturer Website

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Old 10-10-2013, 20:52   #236
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With enough experience loading, it's easily possible to get within about 90-95% of top without danger, to gun or operator.
It's only that last 5% that really tends to get hairy.
Wish I was there to help Tazz, I think I could be of great assistance, even without my chrono.
Loading since 1973, 1 (ONE) KB, and it was due to a mfgr's. mis-print.
And uncle doesn't load "bunniefartz", not even for competition.

edit to add:
In all of my reloading & experimenting I have not seen PTFE used for sabots either, usually due to cost of tooling. Other plastics are far easier & cheaper to mold, & virtually all commercially available sabots are molded, for speed of production.

u.a.

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Old 10-10-2013, 21:04   #237
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God Bless you, Uncle! NO bunniefartz! One might as well be shooting bunny cotton tails.

The difference that i'm trying to get across here with the pressures is the differences in materials used. Normally a bullet is lead, copper, or a combination of the two. But here the "bullet" is really kind of a soft plastic. And it's pretty much the slipperiest thing on the planet. It's not going to "lead up" the barrel, but rather lubricate it with each shot. I may even use a alloy that will probably clean and lube the barrel with each shot, as well as get the pressures and velocity up.

The suspense of all this is amazing... especially when holding it in your hand.

CHRONO TO DA TAZZMAN, STAT!!!

Gunna hav ta staht mix'n sum gella up heya sewn.
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Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGripô!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

Brooks W. Speier

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Official AGripô Manufacturer Website

AGripô Installation Video

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Never let anyone who is clueless about defense tell you what you can and can't do to protect yourself and others.

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Old 10-10-2013, 21:17   #238
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Tazz,
A suggestion. There's an industrial plastic that's possibly what you might need. It's commercial name is Tivar. It's available in 88 & 100 durometer that I've used, might be what you need/want. It's the same basic PTFE family, but not near as slippery.
Just a suggestion.

uncle
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Old 10-10-2013, 21:27   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VN350X10 View Post
Tazz,
A suggestion. There's an industrial plastic that's possibly what you might need. It's commercial name is Tivar. It's available in 88 & 100 durometer that I've used, might be what you need/want. It's the same basic PTFE family, but not near as slippery.
Just a suggestion.

uncle
Tivar, huh? Can't remember ever hearing of that. Where ya get'n that stuff?
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Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGripô!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

Brooks W. Speier

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Official AGripô Manufacturer Website

AGripô Installation Video

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Never let anyone who is clueless about defense tell you what you can and can't do to protect yourself and others.

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Old 10-10-2013, 21:37   #240
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We use it in industrial conveyers. I'll get data for you in a day or so, including suppliers that handle it.

uncle
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