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Old 04-20-2013, 17:14   #51
Fipoj
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Are you new to cc? If you are new to guns or ccw it may feel frightening thinking about what other people think when they find out you're carrying, or any time a cop investigates something and you tell them you have a ccl.

I am very comfortable around guns because I grew up with them and because I use them for work.

Eventually I reached a point when I realized that I am taking control of my own personal safety and it means nothing to me how other people feel about it (other than my fiance). It means nothing to me to have a cop "secure" my weapon, though I think it is safer having it remain in the holster haha.

I think your complaint to cooperate was completely justified and they'll handle it.

Fipoj

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Old 04-20-2013, 17:19   #52
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I guess you could say I'm new to CCW, I got my permit in February of this year.

Not new to guns though, I've owned for as long as I've legally been able to.
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Old 04-20-2013, 17:36   #53
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That's a big pet peeve of mine,being accused of something I did'nt do.I would probably contact the manager and raise holy hell but that's just me.
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Old 04-20-2013, 17:50   #54
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1. Keep your bullet in your shirt pocket.
2. You should have immediately talked to a store manager.
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Old 04-20-2013, 17:56   #55
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Originally Posted by NDCent View Post
1. Keep your bullet in your shirt pocket.
2. You should have immediately talked to a store manager.
The officer had that, not me.

& the woman who called them WAS the manager..

I say "was" because by the sounds of the guy from their corporate office, she won't be for much longer..
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Old 04-20-2013, 20:08   #56
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Well.. just an update:

I know I said I was probably gonna drop this & let the corporate complaint be enough, BUT:

I spoke with my dad (he went to college for 8 years for criminal justice, criminology (if that is a different thing, I dunno), psychology, and a bunch of other things.

He graduated all of these subjects with flying colors.

After explaining everything to him, he thinks I should sue for everything I can (which he believes would be MILLIONS) -- nothing small.

So.. it looks like I'm back to contacting a lawyer on Monday.

Sorry everyone who might be offended by this decision, but I'm sorry -- if an asian woman can sue for being, quote, "Horrified!" by a name on a piece of paper, calling her "ching chong lee" on her receipt at CVS, I'd say my situation is FAR more "horrifying" than hers was.

Will keep everyone updated though.

As for the karma, if anything, the karma is going to come down on the woman at the store who caused this mess.. not me.

I will sleep just fine if I sue them for every dime they have. Doesn't bother me one bit.

As I said, I did nothing wrong to begin with, and I am not a pushover.
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Old 04-20-2013, 21:37   #57
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False accusation is a common anxiety in the West and other cultures. Breaking the social contract, etc.

TBO's analogy was off point, as police officers operate off of different levels of reason for detaining someone - the oft-mentioned stop and frisk, reasonable suspicion, etc. continuum. I mention that as it is relevant to the point he seemed to be making - that the woman wasn't necessarily 'wrong' in her actions - she was exercising her authority, albeit erroneously. I'll try and come back around to that transparently by the end of this post.

Could have left the store, I can imagine and understand why a person would not. Could also have 'prepared' your firearm for the officer - I can even more clearly understand why a person falsely accused of shoplifting would not decide to pull a gun out and dismantle it. Could have called the police and stated that you were the subject of a recent call from the store, looked forward to explaining the situation, and that you were armed under CWP, and that you were interested in alerting the responding officer to that and your benign intent - again, can clearly understand why a person would not choose to do that. Could have gone to your car, placed your pistol in the trunk and waited. Again - you know.

As far as hiring a lawyer, I recommend calling your local Bar association - get a free consult or two and then decide. The things you mentioned you might bring suit for don't seem likely to bring any money damages that I am aware of. What are your damages? Defamation suits are very specific, as are emotional distress suits. You made a reasonable move by notifying the management, sounds like they have promised response - follow up with it. Maybe you'll get a free pair of shorts out of it. Tell them what you want, why you're asking for it/think you deserve it, and the lengths you're willing to go to get it - for real. Maybe in the end, you'll be able to write this up to a funny experience - "how I got a free pair of shorts". Familiarity breeds acceptance - now you've been through one experience with LEO response to you carrying. Next time, it will be less exciting for you.

Consider focusing your efforts on you getting something you want, rather than giving somebody something they don't want. Go for a couple free pairs of shorts, wear them into the store and thank the lady for them if it makes you feel better. If she works management, cash register, and security at a store that sells $5 shorts, perhaps she has some struggles that prevent her from acting rationally or reasonably. She could be on work furlough for all we know. Did she ever prove she was an employee of the store, authorized to make the call?

If you go trying to get somebody fired to show you're more powerful than she is, chances are she already knows it - she was trying to show her power in 'her' store, and already she knows she wielded it improperly/erroneously. If she gets fired or chastised from the boss, she'll suffer more - does that give you anything? Perhaps it does - perhaps it's what she needs to change her tune, and you'll fell better knowing you saved the next unsuspecting sap from this humiliation - but make sure you're deciding what you want, and not reacting to her.

This is not legal advice. In fact, it's not advice or a claim of fact at all - it's just some simple comments.
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Old 04-20-2013, 21:46   #58
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This was your original post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
As I leave the dressing room, this lady tells me "I know what you're doing in there, and the cops are on the way!"

I ask her "what am I doing? I haven't done anything wrong" - she says "We KNOW you're shoving items down your pants, we heard you take the belt off!"

I reply, "no maam, I took my belt off because I have my CWP and I needed to remove my holster - I have nothing down my pants at all."
She said, "We know...we heard," the we, plural, who else was there?

And you told her first that you were carrying.

Now you post...
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Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
Plus I was not concealing anything (except my pistol, which she and the officer could not see until I told him where it was and he retrieved it) so there was nothing that I would have needed to "conceal better" in the first place...
Now no one knew until you told the officer.

You're changing your story...
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Old 04-20-2013, 21:52   #59
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Don't let the store personnel detain you. You have the ability to walk out right up until the point the officer stops you. I will never wait around until the law shows up. Never.
Where I live private security can detain people until police arrive.
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Old 04-20-2013, 22:03   #60
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I'm still wondering why the thread is titled "First encounter with LEO while carrying..." when the title should appear to be "First time accused of shoplifting while carrying..." Being accused of shoplifting seems to be the topic here.
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Old 04-20-2013, 22:10   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furioso2112 View Post
False accusation is a common anxiety in the West and other cultures. Breaking the social contract, etc.

TBO's analogy was off point, as police officers operate off of different levels of reason for detaining someone - the oft-mentioned stop and frisk, reasonable suspicion, etc. continuum. I mention that as it is relevant to the point he seemed to be making - that the woman wasn't necessarily 'wrong' in her actions - she was exercising her authority, albeit erroneously. I'll try and come back around to that transparently by the end of this post.

Could have left the store, I can imagine and understand why a person would not. Could also have 'prepared' your firearm for the officer - I can even more clearly understand why a person falsely accused of shoplifting would not decide to pull a gun out and dismantle it. Could have called the police and stated that you were the subject of a recent call from the store, looked forward to explaining the situation, and that you were armed under CWP, and that you were interested in alerting the responding officer to that and your benign intent - again, can clearly understand why a person would not choose to do that. Could have gone to your car, placed your pistol in the trunk and waited. Again - you know.

As far as hiring a lawyer, I recommend calling your local Bar association - get a free consult or two and then decide. The things you mentioned you might bring suit for don't seem likely to bring any money damages that I am aware of. What are your damages? Defamation suits are very specific, as are emotional distress suits. You made a reasonable move by notifying the management, sounds like they have promised response - follow up with it. Maybe you'll get a free pair of shorts out of it. Tell them what you want, why you're asking for it/think you deserve it, and the lengths you're willing to go to get it - for real. Maybe in the end, you'll be able to write this up to a funny experience - "how I got a free pair of shorts". Familiarity breeds acceptance - now you've been through one experience with LEO response to you carrying. Next time, it will be less exciting for you.

Consider focusing your efforts on you getting something you want, rather than giving somebody something they don't want. Go for a couple free pairs of shorts, wear them into the store and thank the lady for them if it makes you feel better. If she works management, cash register, and security at a store that sells $5 shorts, perhaps she has some struggles that prevent her from acting rationally or reasonably. She could be on work furlough for all we know. Did she ever prove she was an employee of the store, authorized to make the call?

If you go trying to get somebody fired to show you're more powerful than she is, chances are she already knows it - she was trying to show her power in 'her' store, and already she knows she wielded it improperly/erroneously. If she gets fired or chastised from the boss, she'll suffer more - does that give you anything? Perhaps it does - perhaps it's what she needs to change her tune, and you'll fell better knowing you saved the next unsuspecting sap from this humiliation - but make sure you're deciding what you want, and not reacting to her.

This is not legal advice. In fact, it's not advice or a claim of fact at all - it's just some simple comments.
The lady did not detain he. She called the Police and told him she called.
OP says he was upset at being accused.

In my example the Cop actually stopped /detained him, having broken no traffic law, and checked him out for DUI (accusation).

Relevant.


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Old 04-20-2013, 22:11   #62
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Now it just sounds like you're trying to exploit a situation and hurt as many people as you can.

Personally, I don't think you should be carrying with that attitude.

This sounds almost as bad as the person who bought a coffee from dunks and burnt their mouth. Now there is that proverbial "warning: contents might be hot" label.

Just because you can sue and try to ruin someone's life, take their home, bankrupt them, doesn't mean they should. You sound angry. My advice, don't try to prove a point, it just sounds like you're crying about it, looking for someone to blame, and mostly just trying to force some money out of it.

Fipoj

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Old 04-20-2013, 22:13   #63
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This was your original post...She said, "We know...we heard," the we, plural, who else was there?

And you told her first that you were carrying.

Now you post...Now no one knew until you told the officer.

You're changing your story...
I dont read it that way. It still looks like the same story to me. I think you are reaching here.
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Old 04-20-2013, 22:22   #64
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Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
As for the karma, if anything, the karma is going to come down on the woman at the store who caused this mess.. not me.

I will sleep just fine if I sue them for every dime they have. Doesn't bother me one bit.

As I said, I did nothing wrong to begin with, and I am not a pushover.
Sounds like you're trying to compensate for something as well. A bigger man would let it go.

Doesn't offend me, just people like you tick me off. However, this must have been be the biggest concern you've ever had in your life and your pride is hurt.

People go through a lot more than you everyday and don't complain or seek revenge... Just saying

Fipoj

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Old 04-20-2013, 22:28   #65
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
This was your original post...She said, "We know...we heard," the we, plural, who else was there?

And you told her first that you were carrying.

Now you post...Now no one knew until you told the officer.

You're changing your story...
No, Russ. I am NOT changing my story.

Please read ALL of my posts consecutively.

You will find that I stated that the ONLY thing I WAS concealing was my pistol -- which neither she, NOR the officer, knew I had until I notified him of it.

SHE, on the other hand, accused me of "concealing/shoplifting/shoving down my pants" MERCHANDISE from the store.

Yes, AFTER she told me the cops were coming & why she called them, THEN I told her that the reason I took my belt off was because I had my permit, and I needed to take this off in order to spin my tag around & see what it said.

That is VERY different.
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Old 04-20-2013, 22:33   #66
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@Fipoj, I don't really care what you think of me if I should decide to sue.

As I have previously stated, if a woman can claim "horrific" damages and sue for millions, just for being called "ching chong lee" on a piece of paper on her receipt, I'd say I have a MUCH better claim.

As I have ALSO previously stated, if she is doing this to me, she is doing this to plenty of other people.

If it takes my lawsuit to end it, then so be it.
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Old 04-20-2013, 22:38   #67
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Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
No, Russ. I am NOT changing my story.

Please read ALL of my posts consecutively.

You will find that I stated that the ONLY thing I WAS concealing was my pistol -- which neither she, NOR the officer, knew I had until I notified him of it.

SHE, on the other hand, accused me of "concealing/shoplifting/shoving down my pants" MERCHANDISE from the store.

Yes, AFTER she told me the cops were coming & why she called them, THEN I told her that the reason I took my belt off was because I had my permit, and I needed to take this off in order to spin my tag around & see what it said.

That is VERY different.
HOWEVER -- she clearly didn't even pay attention to what I was saying, as she was too busy telling me how she had "busted me for stealing, and the cops were coming"

So yes, as I stated, nobody even knew I was, quote, "concealing anything" to begin with -- mainly because I WASNT!!!!

Either way..... Whatever dude.

Just delete this thread if this is how things are going to go from here out.

I'm done. First you say you owe me an apology, yet now you are trying to "poke holes" in my posts.

Again.... Whatever.

Just delete the thread if that is the case.

I will not be posting here very often after these responses.

Thanks to all who responded with some common sense, and actually looked at this from my point of view.

To everyone else, get lost.

Also -- @patchman, yes.. you are correct in a way.

While it was my "first encounter with LEO while armed for being accused of shoplifting" -- it was also my first encounter with LEO while being armed at all.
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Old 04-20-2013, 22:50   #68
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I'm sure the laws vary from state to state, but it seems to me that you aren't committing a crime even if you do stick merchandise in your pants. Now if you leave the store without paying for it, you are stealing.

I'm wondering what crime the police were investigating?
That is what I am wondering. Where I am from they could in no way charge you with stealing unless you had something and left the store.

Also, this woman, it would appear, thought you took clothes in the dressing room, but let you in anyway after you told her what you wanted to check?

And then she falsely says you are stealing?

Do they have lawyers where you live?

Care to name this place of business?
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Old 04-20-2013, 22:53   #69
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Well.. just an update:

I know I said I was probably gonna drop this & let the corporate complaint be enough, BUT:

I spoke with my dad (he went to college for 8 years for criminal justice, criminology (if that is a different thing, I dunno), psychology, and a bunch of other things.

He graduated all of these subjects with flying colors.

After explaining everything to him, he thinks I should sue for everything I can (which he believes would be MILLIONS) -- nothing small.

So.. it looks like I'm back to contacting a lawyer on Monday.

Sorry everyone who might be offended by this decision, but I'm sorry -- if an asian woman can sue for being, quote, "Horrified!" by a name on a piece of paper, calling her "ching chong lee" on her receipt at CVS, I'd say my situation is FAR more "horrifying" than hers was.

Will keep everyone updated though.

As for the karma, if anything, the karma is going to come down on the woman at the store who caused this mess.. not me.

I will sleep just fine if I sue them for every dime they have. Doesn't bother me one bit.

As I said, I did nothing wrong to begin with, and I am not a pushover.
And we wonder what is wrong with this country?
Don't settle for millions, go for billions! Zillions!
Make sure you look in the yellow pages for the best ambulance chaser you can find!
Seriously, you are kind of a pathetic person, and I get the feeling you are going to get a good education on greed.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:06   #70
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This was your original post...She said, "We know...we heard," the we, plural, who else was there?

And you told her first that you were carrying.

Now you post...Now no one knew until you told the officer.

You're changing your story...
How do you figure that? He didn't change his story at all. He simply added more detail that had not been previously needed, or offered.

I have to wonder: Instead of all that extraneous gun handling (I don't care whether or not the piece was holstered.) why not simply tell the sales lady to measure your waist? Otherwise you could have taken her measuring tape and measured your own waist.

Finally, is it really necessary for you to be in C-1 in a clothing store? Are you actually THAT PARANOID about being instantaneously ambushed, or wounded? I'll be perfectly frank: I'm glad I wasn't the guy in the booth next to you while all of this was going on.

Suggest you forget about that lost round. Carry in C-3 and you'll never miss it! More than likely you'll be able to go for the rest of your life and not need - even once - to come out of the holster, fast, in C-1. Sure, you won't be an official, 'Glockeroo cowboy'; but you and your family and friends WILL BE a whole lot safer.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:47   #71
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In some states (according to that Loss Prevention Show on TV), you can be charged for shoplifting by concealing merchandise before trying to leave the store.

Go ahead and sue. You need to get all the "money you deserve."
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:26   #72
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I'm just an armchair QB, but I think the cop did you a favor by NOT making you strip down. Keeping the round was weird...maybe he's out of ammo, too?
Why? Where's the probably cause?
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:28   #73
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I don't know.. He racked the slide in the store after removing the magazine and it fell on the floor.

I don't know if he picked it up or not, I was too nervous to even notice.

I just highly doubt that an officer would leave that in the store.

So why return my magazines but not that one round?

This sucks. Now I had to replace that chambered round with one from my spare magazine, then replace that one from the spare magazine with a FMJ.

As for doing me a favor by not making me strip down, it wouldn't have bothered me - I have nothing to hide!!

Should I call the sheriff's office & ask? Or just forget about it? Or what?
I strongly suggest you lose this attitude. Police look for this and will take advantage of people who think this way. Remember, they're looking for bodies and on fishing expeditions.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:59   #74
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That's a big pet peeve of mine,being accused of something I did'nt do.I would probably contact the manager and raise holy hell but that's just me.
Me, too. Being accused of something I didn't do aside from physical attack, is about the worse thing that someone can do to me. I once blew up at my manager and my technical lead when confronted with a false accusation made from another employee. I was reading them the riot act about that one. Needless to say, nothing went in my permanent record.

I would be livid and would pursue this through corporate channels, letting them know of my anger at being unjustly accused and that I would be sure to let others know of this outrageous behavior by one of their personnel. I wouldn't consider a lawsuit under the circumstances the OP related. But I would expect the offending employee to at least receive serious reprimands and better, termination. Her actions could result in a lawsuit from someone against the company.

As for the police officer, I don't like nor want any LEO to remove my firearm from my person. Undue handling by anyone is dangerous and I prefer it to stay in my holster unless needed. I would complain if he ran my gun's serial number based upon the fact that there was no RAS or PC personally known to him. He was only going on what he was told about some person lodging a complaint.
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Last edited by SouthernBoyVA; 04-21-2013 at 10:08..
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:02   #75
Merlin40
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
Are you kidding me?

How is asking to use the dressing room "being an attention whore looking for a confrontation"

I seriously hope you're being sarcastic.
If I could add something......."bargain store"?

In my experience, the pants I choose, as well as the belt, are really, (for me) nothing short of a support system for my weapon of choice. And I NEVER, NEVER, skimp when it comes to that. A decent pair of cargo pants, with re-enforced belt loops, and maybe some type of 5-11 gear type belt, designed to support my weapon. Why would I shop a bargain store, for higher quality support equipment? Not trying to bash, I'm just asking.
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42