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Old 04-20-2013, 15:42   #41
GLOCK19FTW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalton Wayne View Post
I'd be livid at being accused of shoplifting, the clerk should be on the unemployed list I'd contact the store manager, It's not shoplifting until you attempt to leave the store.
as far as the ammo just let it be
Exactly.. I couldn't believe it. Hell, I still can't believe it.. lol

Regarding the bullet, I spoke with the officer and he said he could drop it off on Monday

Even if I couldnt get that back though, that wouldn't be a big deal.

The guy from the corporate office told me that they will be taking disciplinary action against her, and that they would call me in a few days to "do everything possible to make things right and rectify the situation"

I have a feeling they will try to offer me a gift card or something. If so, it will have to be one with a pretty large amount for me to even consider it.
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:46   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW
I don't know if it's a "law" or not, but LP (loss prevention) in this state instructs employees that they can NOT approach anyone suspected of shoplifting, OR call the police, until they have attempted to leave the store without paying for the items. - It's not a law. Calling the Police to report you suspect someone of a crime is not illegal.

So that is the first screw-up she made.

My wife works as an assistant manager at a clothing store, and this is exactly what their loss prevention team has told her on numerous occasions. -While that is good advice for those interested in obtaining a theft conviction in a criminal court, it has no bearing on what a clerk/employee or LP may decide to do. Some places are more concerned about preventing the theft of an item than getting a criminal charge/prosecution.

The reason why? They said if the employees do not follow these instructions, in this state, the person can legally sue both the company AND the employee. -Third hand tale told to you. Anyone can sue anybody, for anything. Getting a court to proceed with the charge is another thing, much less winning a decision in court.

As for what damage.. hmm, I don't know.. how about slander, defamation of character, emotional distress.. you name it. -That is more than a stretch. Nothing.

I had done nothing wrong at all. -It's not about that, it's what the clerk perceived. Would another reasonable person in her shoes with her training and experience, making the same observations, think something may have been amiss?

She called the police while I was in a dressing room.

The police show up to investigate what they believe is a criminal who is stealing.

When they get there, that "criminal" turns out to be armed.

I could have been killed because of this woman.

Throw in the fact that I've never had any encounters with law enforcement while carrying before, and my first time was under suspicion of a crime, yeah.. just imagine how scared I was.

The whole thing was just ridiculous..

NOT on the officer's part - I don't blame them one bit for anything. They did nothing wrong.

I blame the woman who called them for no reason, since I was not shoving anything down my pants, and I had never attempted to leave the store. -Is there anyway you could see her side? Do you think what she observed may have made her suspicious of someone concealing an item (or better concealing it)?

Going by what LP has stated about shoplifter situations, I have reason to believe that I do in fact have a case against the store and the employee.
BUT the reason I said I will just contact an attorney is because I want to be 100% sure there is a case before I move forward with anything.

I'm not a lawyer. But I'm also not a pushover. What they did was completely uncalled for. If I have to sue and get the woman fired to make that clear, so be it.
-Go ahead and spend the money if you like, I doubt you'll receive the satisfaction you seek. I'm not an attorney-disclaimer.

My suggestion? If you're that unhappy with your experience:

1) Don't shop there anymore
2) Let the owner know why you're not shopping there anymore
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:00   #43
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Quote:
- It's not a law. Calling the Police to report you suspect someone of a crime is not illegal.
I understand that -- but what was I suspected of doing, since again I wasn't even carrying any merchandise, and I never tried to leave the store?

Suspecting someone of shoplifting (to me anyway) would be:

Person leaves the store. You suspect they shoplifted, since they have already exited the store, and it does not become shoplifting until they leave without paying for an item.

Quote:
-It's not about that, it's what the clerk perceived. Would another reasonable person in her shoes with her training and experience, making the same observations, think something may have been amiss?
I honestly do not think any REASONABLE person would have done the same.
Quote:
-Is there anyway you could see her side? Do you think what she observed may have made her suspicious of someone concealing an item (or better concealing it)?
I doubt it.. I seriously can't think of a single reason - not one - why she would have any suspicion that I was trying to steal anything.

Plus I was not concealing anything (except my pistol, which she and the officer could not see until I told him where it was and he retrieved it) so there was nothing that I would have needed to "conceal better" in the first place.. lol

She told the officer that "she saw a bulge in my pants" and that is why she called them.

LOL.. what she meant by that, I have no idea.

I DO know that she was not referring to my pistol tho.. I do NOT carry that in my pants.

So considering that.. I'm not sure I want to know either.. I am pretty well-endowed in that department so I can only assume by that comment, that this pervy-ass old woman was checking me out..... ew......

I don't know.. I might just wait until the corporate office calls me back & see what they have done about this, and what their idea of "making things right" is before I choose to contact an attorney, since I've had some time to calm down & think things over.

Yesterday when I posted this thread, I had literally just walked in the door after this happened. So I was pretty upset (as you could all probably tell, lol)

But as others have stated, even though nothing came of it it's still just ridiculous to be accused of shoplifting when you haven't done anything wrong.
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:04   #44
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Again, you fail to understand that just because you haven't committed the actual offense doesn't automatically mean the other person was wrong.

I'll try and analogy.

A Cop is driving behind you late at night in a dark location. You change your CD and drop the CD on the floor of the car. You reach down to pick it up and fumble it a couple of times. This causes your car to weave back and forth in your lane for several long seconds.

The Cop stops you and checks you for DUI.

You haven't had a drop to drink or any drug.

Was the Cop wrong?
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:09   #45
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Again, you fail to understand that just because you haven't committed the actual offense doesn't automatically mean the other person was wrong.

I'll try and analogy.

A Cop is driving behind you late at night in a dark location. You change your CD and drop the CD on the floor of the car. You reach down to pick it up and fumble it a couple of times. This causes your car to weave back and forth in your lane for several long seconds.

The Cop stops you and checks you for DUI.

You haven't had a drop to drink or any drug.

Was the Cop wrong?
No, not at all - because swerving could kill someone.

I fail to see how someone "shoving something down their pants" could harm anybody else if I had been doing so.

Not the best analogy. lol

I do see what you're saying though & where you're coming from.

I just can not see where this woman was coming from.

I'll be the first to admit that this probably just hurt my pride more than anything else. I've never had anything like this happen before. EVER..
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:12   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
No, not at all - because swerving could kill someone.

I fail to see how someone "shoving something down their pants" could harm anybody else if I had been doing so.

Not the best analogy. lol

I do see what you're saying though & where you're coming from.

I just can not see where this woman was coming from.

I'll be the first to admit that this hurt my pride more than anything else. I've never had anything like this happen before. EVER.. -This is understandable, believable, and likely the driving force behind everything.
Take a step back from things, breath a bit, and see what if anything can be learned from this.
Weaving in your own lane isn't against the law in my state, or any others I'm aware of.
No citable offense.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?

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Old 04-20-2013, 16:13   #47
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Unrelated, but instead of a swear filter, i wish there was a GT filter that would filter out LOL, OMG, etc.......Sometimes I think we are in a forum for teenage Valley girls.....
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:27   #48
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You’re an attention whore looking for a confrontation and you got one. Now you say you’re surprise B.S! It’s just want you wanted.
me thinks someone needs a self-imposed timeout...

on topic, would be indifferent to the sales clerk losing their job; I'd write that off as karma. what would be of concern to me personally is if it came up in system during next ccw renewal. in this instance, it seems as if it has been documented more than thoroughly once it made it to the officer's supervisor, but the fact that it should have never come up in first place would be difficult for me to let go.
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:43   #49
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I don't think suing anybody is the answer. These days nobody has any courage to look at a situation and say opps, a mistake was made, I'll get over it and press on with life.

OP, if you are dead set on pursuing this then go ahead, but it sounds like a "I'll get back at you if it's the last thing I'll do" situation where you are hoping to score something off a lawsuit. Let it go and move on IMHO. Think of it as karma.

Edit: You should never be ashamed of carrying a firearm and letting the cop secure it while he controls the situation. Why do you care what people passing by think? The regular public is uncomfortable around guns and may have been a little curious. Nothing for you to feel like a criminal about.

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Old 04-20-2013, 17:02   #50
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Originally Posted by nosuchagency View Post
me thinks someone needs a self-imposed timeout...

on topic, would be indifferent to the sales clerk losing their job; I'd write that off as karma. what would be of concern to me personally is if it came up in system during next ccw renewal. in this instance, it seems as if it has been documented more than thoroughly once it made it to the officer's supervisor, but the fact that it should have never come up in first place would be difficult for me to let go.
No, I called the supervisor to have them try to get in touch with the officer to make sure he picked up the chambered round & didn't leave it in the store.

Turns out the officer who came & talked with me IS the supervisor from what I understand.. he's the one who returned my call when I left the message for the supervisor so I think he is.

If so, I'm not really worried about that. He knows it should have never happened in the first place.

I plan on asking him about that Monday just to be sure though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipoj View Post
I don't think suing anybody is the answer. These days nobody has any courage to look at a situation and say opps, a mistake was made, I'll get over it and press on with life.

OP, if you are dead set on pursuing this then go ahead, but it sounds like a "I'll get back at you if it's the last thing I'll do" situation where you are hoping to score something off a lawsuit. Let it go and move on IMHO. Think of it as karma.

Edit: You should never be ashamed of carrying a firearm and letting the cop secure it while he controls the situation. Why do you care what people passing by think? The regular public is uncomfortable around guns and may have been a little curious. Nothing for you to feel like a criminal about.

Fipoj
Yeah.. I don't know man, I probably won't be suing.

It just made me feel better to say it at the time I guess.

I suppose a complaint to corporate is enough justice for me.

& I know its nothing to be ashamed of, in fact its common practice for them.

I've just never been through it before, and this was under suspicion of a crime that I hadn't even committed (or even thought about committing) so that probably had something to do with it.

It just really freaked me out man..

Anyway, I suppose I'll just drop it. You guys are right.. no point wasting time & money on a lawsuit for this.

I can't take back my complaint to corporate though, but even if I could I probably wouldn't.
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Old 04-20-2013, 17:14   #51
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Are you new to cc? If you are new to guns or ccw it may feel frightening thinking about what other people think when they find out you're carrying, or any time a cop investigates something and you tell them you have a ccl.

I am very comfortable around guns because I grew up with them and because I use them for work.

Eventually I reached a point when I realized that I am taking control of my own personal safety and it means nothing to me how other people feel about it (other than my fiance). It means nothing to me to have a cop "secure" my weapon, though I think it is safer having it remain in the holster haha.

I think your complaint to cooperate was completely justified and they'll handle it.

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Old 04-20-2013, 17:19   #52
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I guess you could say I'm new to CCW, I got my permit in February of this year.

Not new to guns though, I've owned for as long as I've legally been able to.
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Old 04-20-2013, 17:36   #53
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That's a big pet peeve of mine,being accused of something I did'nt do.I would probably contact the manager and raise holy hell but that's just me.
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Old 04-20-2013, 17:50   #54
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1. Keep your bullet in your shirt pocket.
2. You should have immediately talked to a store manager.
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Old 04-20-2013, 17:56   #55
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1. Keep your bullet in your shirt pocket.
2. You should have immediately talked to a store manager.
The officer had that, not me.

& the woman who called them WAS the manager..

I say "was" because by the sounds of the guy from their corporate office, she won't be for much longer..
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Old 04-20-2013, 20:08   #56
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Well.. just an update:

I know I said I was probably gonna drop this & let the corporate complaint be enough, BUT:

I spoke with my dad (he went to college for 8 years for criminal justice, criminology (if that is a different thing, I dunno), psychology, and a bunch of other things.

He graduated all of these subjects with flying colors.

After explaining everything to him, he thinks I should sue for everything I can (which he believes would be MILLIONS) -- nothing small.

So.. it looks like I'm back to contacting a lawyer on Monday.

Sorry everyone who might be offended by this decision, but I'm sorry -- if an asian woman can sue for being, quote, "Horrified!" by a name on a piece of paper, calling her "ching chong lee" on her receipt at CVS, I'd say my situation is FAR more "horrifying" than hers was.

Will keep everyone updated though.

As for the karma, if anything, the karma is going to come down on the woman at the store who caused this mess.. not me.

I will sleep just fine if I sue them for every dime they have. Doesn't bother me one bit.

As I said, I did nothing wrong to begin with, and I am not a pushover.
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Old 04-20-2013, 21:37   #57
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False accusation is a common anxiety in the West and other cultures. Breaking the social contract, etc.

TBO's analogy was off point, as police officers operate off of different levels of reason for detaining someone - the oft-mentioned stop and frisk, reasonable suspicion, etc. continuum. I mention that as it is relevant to the point he seemed to be making - that the woman wasn't necessarily 'wrong' in her actions - she was exercising her authority, albeit erroneously. I'll try and come back around to that transparently by the end of this post.

Could have left the store, I can imagine and understand why a person would not. Could also have 'prepared' your firearm for the officer - I can even more clearly understand why a person falsely accused of shoplifting would not decide to pull a gun out and dismantle it. Could have called the police and stated that you were the subject of a recent call from the store, looked forward to explaining the situation, and that you were armed under CWP, and that you were interested in alerting the responding officer to that and your benign intent - again, can clearly understand why a person would not choose to do that. Could have gone to your car, placed your pistol in the trunk and waited. Again - you know.

As far as hiring a lawyer, I recommend calling your local Bar association - get a free consult or two and then decide. The things you mentioned you might bring suit for don't seem likely to bring any money damages that I am aware of. What are your damages? Defamation suits are very specific, as are emotional distress suits. You made a reasonable move by notifying the management, sounds like they have promised response - follow up with it. Maybe you'll get a free pair of shorts out of it. Tell them what you want, why you're asking for it/think you deserve it, and the lengths you're willing to go to get it - for real. Maybe in the end, you'll be able to write this up to a funny experience - "how I got a free pair of shorts". Familiarity breeds acceptance - now you've been through one experience with LEO response to you carrying. Next time, it will be less exciting for you.

Consider focusing your efforts on you getting something you want, rather than giving somebody something they don't want. Go for a couple free pairs of shorts, wear them into the store and thank the lady for them if it makes you feel better. If she works management, cash register, and security at a store that sells $5 shorts, perhaps she has some struggles that prevent her from acting rationally or reasonably. She could be on work furlough for all we know. Did she ever prove she was an employee of the store, authorized to make the call?

If you go trying to get somebody fired to show you're more powerful than she is, chances are she already knows it - she was trying to show her power in 'her' store, and already she knows she wielded it improperly/erroneously. If she gets fired or chastised from the boss, she'll suffer more - does that give you anything? Perhaps it does - perhaps it's what she needs to change her tune, and you'll fell better knowing you saved the next unsuspecting sap from this humiliation - but make sure you're deciding what you want, and not reacting to her.

This is not legal advice. In fact, it's not advice or a claim of fact at all - it's just some simple comments.
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Old 04-20-2013, 21:46   #58
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This was your original post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
As I leave the dressing room, this lady tells me "I know what you're doing in there, and the cops are on the way!"

I ask her "what am I doing? I haven't done anything wrong" - she says "We KNOW you're shoving items down your pants, we heard you take the belt off!"

I reply, "no maam, I took my belt off because I have my CWP and I needed to remove my holster - I have nothing down my pants at all."
She said, "We know...we heard," the we, plural, who else was there?

And you told her first that you were carrying.

Now you post...
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Plus I was not concealing anything (except my pistol, which she and the officer could not see until I told him where it was and he retrieved it) so there was nothing that I would have needed to "conceal better" in the first place...
Now no one knew until you told the officer.

You're changing your story...
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Old 04-20-2013, 21:52   #59
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Don't let the store personnel detain you. You have the ability to walk out right up until the point the officer stops you. I will never wait around until the law shows up. Never.
Where I live private security can detain people until police arrive.
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Old 04-20-2013, 22:03   #60
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I'm still wondering why the thread is titled "First encounter with LEO while carrying..." when the title should appear to be "First time accused of shoplifting while carrying..." Being accused of shoplifting seems to be the topic here.
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