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Old 04-19-2013, 15:14   #26
misunderestimated
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6StringGeek View Post
I'm just an armchair QB, but I think the cop did you a favor by NOT making you strip down. Keeping the round was weird...maybe he's out of ammo, too?
I bet he secured it in his pocket and completely forgot about it. Any time I shed a round I Place it in my pocket immediately for safe keeping.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:30   #27
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Its always a little nerve wracking having what we all hope is a friendly encounter with a LEO when your armed. I would say things went great for you.You both went home safe, You were not drawn upon with a giant dramatic event in a store.

Chalk it up as a safe lesson learned.

First let me say I don't think you did anything wrong. I can tell you what I do.I never do anything that could be connived as not normal behavior. You are probably the first person ever to ask her to go into the changing room with out clothes to try on and in her mind that made her feel you were doing something bad. Keep this in mind in the future, try not to do anything that is not normal when you have a gun you want to try and blend in and almost become invisible.
Better luck in the future but I think you came out better then you might think.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:52   #28
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Originally Posted by misunderestimated View Post
Its always a little nerve wracking having what we all hope is a friendly encounter with a LEO when your armed. I would say things went great for you.You both went home safe, You were not drawn upon with a giant dramatic event in a store.

Chalk it up as a safe lesson learned.

First let me say I don't think you did anything wrong. I can tell you what I do.I never do anything that could be connived as not normal behavior. You are probably the first person ever to ask her to go into the changing room with out clothes to try on and in her mind that made her feel you were doing something bad. Keep this in mind in the future, try not to do anything that is not normal when you have a gun you want to try and blend in and almost become invisible.
Better luck in the future but I think you came out better then you might think.
Definitely, like I said.. I know things could have went a lot worse.

I didn't really think about that (the not going in to the dressing room with clothes thing) so I suppose that could explain it..

BUT the problem there, is that I told her up front the reason why I wanted to go in - just to check the tag on my current pants so I know which size shorts to get, to make sure they are going to be 1 size larger.

The really strange part about this, is I used to work with this lady like 6 years ago at a different store.

When I approached her to ask to use the dressing room, she was all smiles! She said "hey, how have you been! Don't I know you from somewhere?"

I told her "yeah! we used to work together, remember?"

And everything was fine!! Up until I exited the dressing room, at which point I was accused of "shoving items down my pants!"

LOL I mean wtf? I don't know what to make of that..

Bipolar, much??

Anyway - yeah I spoke with the corporate office and I filed a complaint about her and explained the entire situation.

They couldn't believe their ears either.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:57   #29
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Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
Are you kidding me?

How is asking to use the dressing room "being an attention whore looking for a confrontation"

I seriously hope you're being sarcastic.
I kinda agree...

If you honestly didn't know your pants size, what approach would you take to check???

Me personally, would undo them, drop them to my knees and look between my legs at the tag...

Seems WAY easier than removing my belt and "rig" and trying to read the tag in the mirror!

"I question things because I am human"
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:04   #30
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I kinda agree...

If you honestly didn't know your pants size, what approach would you take to check???

Me personally, would undo them, drop them to my knees and look between my legs at the tag...

Seems WAY easier than removing my belt and "rig" and trying to read the tag in the mirror!

"I question things because I am human"
Can't do that in these dressing rooms - there is a giant gap between the floor and the door where people can see in.

I honestly don't know how they even qualify as a dressing room in the first place because of it.

There were little kids in the store. Wasn't gonna take the chance of one being like "mommy the guy in the dressing room just dropped his pants!"

lol I know it sounds crazy, but you would just have to see the dressing room layout for yourself.

Which makes me question even more why they thought I was stealing.. they could see if I was!!!

Literally the only thing I could do was take off the belt to loosen the waist & spin it around as much as possible to see it in the mirror.

On the bright side, I do know what size pants/shorts I need from here out.. lol so something like this will never be happening again in the future.
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:47   #31
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I'm sure the laws vary from state to state, but it seems to me that you aren't committing a crime even if you do stick merchandise in your pants. Now if you leave the store without paying for it, you are stealing.

I'm wondering what crime the police were investigating?
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:14   #32
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GLOCK19FTW, I hardly ever, rarer than rarely explain why I close a thread.

Sometimes it is obviously a horrendous rules violation.

Sometimes the thread is just going in endless circles. There is obviously no new territory to discover.

Sometimes the thread has served its purpose. A question is asked and sufficiently answered.

Sometimes, regardless of the reasonableness of the answers given, the questioner will not accept them. In other words, they really do not want an answer.

There are other reasons...

But, sometimes, it is a mercy closing. What is a mercy closing? It is sorta like when the more a poster posts, the deeper his hole gets, and the shorter his ladder to climb out with gets.

The last is why I closed the thread.
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Old 04-20-2013, 14:31   #33
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Well, guess I owe GLOCK19FTW an apology. We traded some PMs. He's agreed to reopening the thread and posting our exchange so y'all can offer advice and opinions.

Here're the PMs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW
Man, I know people aren't going to believe me.

But I swear to god, everything in that thread happened exactly the way I said it did.

Maybe the only way for anyone to believe me is if they seen the layout of the store & especially the dressing room area for themselves.

Obviously that isn't possible though.

Anyway.. its cool, I don't blame you.

Feel free to just delete the thread completely.

I'm speaking with an attorney tomorrow about it so I guess I don't need the thread anyway.

However, I was not exaggerating anything, and I was not lying about anything.

I do not lie on the internet. If we can't be honest online, we can't be honest anywhere.

But yeah.. you can just delete the thing.

Thanks anyway man
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Originally Posted by RussP
Seriously? An attorney? On what grounds?

This is why I closed the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW
What do you mean on what grounds? This woman had no reason or right to call the police while I was in the dressing room.

I had done nothing wrong. I was not shoving items down my pants, and as others pointed out, even if I had been, it isn't a crime until you try to leave the store without paying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
What law did she break for which there is a defined punishment?

And what if there is an absence of a criminal act?

Then what damage did they inflict on you for which they should be compelled to compensate you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW
I don't know if it's a "law" or not, but LP (loss prevention) in this state instructs employees that they can NOT approach anyone suspected of shoplifting, OR call the police, until they have attempted to leave the store without paying for the items.

So that is the first screw-up she made.

My wife works as an assistant manager at a clothing store, and this is exactly what their loss prevention team has told her on numerous occasions.

The reason why? They said if the employees do not follow these instructions, in this state, the person can legally sue both the company AND the employee.

As for what damage.. hmm, I don't know.. how about slander, defamation of character, emotional distress.. you name it.

I had done nothing wrong at all.

She called the police while I was in a dressing room.

The police show up to investigate what they believe is a criminal who is stealing.

When they get there, that "criminal" turns out to be armed.

I could have been killed because of this woman.

Throw in the fact that I've never had any encounters with law enforcement while carrying before, and my first time was under suspicion of a crime, yeah.. just imagine how scared I was.

The whole thing was just ridiculous..

NOT on the officer's part - I don't blame them one bit for anything. They did nothing wrong.

I blame the woman who called them for no reason, since I was not shoving anything down my pants, and I had never attempted to leave the store.

Going by what LP has stated about shoplifter situations, I have reason to believe that I do in fact have a case against the store and the employee.

BUT the reason I said I will just contact an attorney is because I want to be 100% sure there is a case before I move forward with anything.

I'm not a lawyer. But I'm also not a pushover. What they did was completely uncalled for. If I have to sue and get the woman fired to make that clear, so be it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
You know, maybe I owe you an apology and need to reopen your thread. Some other GT members may have had equally frustrating experiences in other businesses, other types of businesses.

Would you object to that and letting me copy and paste these messages to give other members "the rest of the story"?

Heck, someone may have already dealt with an attorney about incidents of customer abuse, too.

Can I reopen the thread for you? Like I said, I'll apologize...

Thanks...
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Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW
No its ok, you can open it & post our conversation if you like.

I just hope you (or anyone else) doesn't think I was putting down the officers, I know they were just doing their job.

My blame is on the way that woman handled the non-situation. lol
Input?
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:10   #34
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Originally Posted by Radam3 View Post
I kinda agree...

If you honestly didn't know your pants size, what approach would you take to check???

Me personally, would undo them, drop them to my knees and look between my legs at the tag...

Seems WAY easier than removing my belt and "rig" and trying to read the tag in the mirror!

"I question things because I am human"
How is doing what he did in a closed dressing room being an attention whore? Who's attention did he have in a closed dressing room? You seem to be a strange kind of fellow.....
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:15   #35
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I feel like it's a no harm, no foul situation. But that's just my own humble opinion.

I don't think the clerk was right, but I also don't think you need to go through paying for a lawyer and try to get her fired.

I'm sure management had already taken care of the issue. You could always ask them if they did anything.

It's just my personality to let things go though. The cop would not have shot you unless you didn't follow his directions.

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Old 04-20-2013, 15:27   #36
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Don't let the store personnel detain you. You have the ability to walk out right up until the point the officer stops you. I will never wait around until the law shows up. Never.
Yup.

Of course security could detain you. Did not sound like they had security. I would have left.

To the OP. Thanks for sharing. Good story.

I had a similar thing happen once in a Walgreens. Lady accused me of walking around and not buying anything.......my wife was shopping and I indeed was walking around and not buying anything. Cop showed up and asked to see my ID. I was wearing a fanny pack with a 38 special in it. When I went for my ID he asked if I had any weapons in there. I told him I did and that I would also show him my CCL. He was fine with that and the situation did not turn out too terribly embracing. My wife never knew I was getting questioned. I even paid for everything that she had in her basket on the way out. When I told her in the car she could not believe it and said that we will never return to that Walgreens.

.
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:27   #37
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
GLOCK19FTW, I hardly ever, rarer than rarely explain why I close a thread.

Sometimes it is obviously a horrendous rules violation.

Sometimes the thread is just going in endless circles. There is obviously no new territory to discover.

Sometimes the thread has served its purpose. A question is asked and sufficiently answered.

Sometimes, regardless of the reasonableness of the answers given, the questioner will not accept them. In other words, they really do not want an answer.

There are other reasons...

But, sometimes, it is a mercy closing. What is a mercy closing? It is sorta like when the more a poster posts, the deeper his hole gets, and the shorter his ladder to climb out with gets.

The last is why I closed the thread.
I think that was a good idea.
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:32   #38
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lol vettely, I think you may have overlooked his latest post.

@fipoj, I admit its just more about the principle of the matter.

It takes a LOT to really offend me, embarrass me, or degrade me.

This woman managed to pull off all three in a matter of minutes.

I couldn't care less if she loses her job over this. I hope she does.

Maybe then she'll follow LP instructions at her next position, and that is if she has any "power" there at all.

It will also make her snap out of her little fantasy world, where every person who asks to use a dressing room is suddenly a criminal.

As I told the corporate office, if she is doing this to me, she is doing this to a lot of other people.

Not trying to bring race in to this, but this is the truth:

The woman who did this was a white lady.

Now, I'm a white guy, clean-shaven, always respectful to everybody.

The customers who typically shop at this store are african-americans.

So if she is pulling this crap on me, I guarantee she is pulling this on plenty of other customers who are not doing anything wrong.

She definitely has a screw loose..
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:36   #39
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This was really a non-event and being accused of things is just part of life. The police officer seemed to have been reasonable. Your stress comes from inexperience and confusion.

For the past 30+ years, I have been periodically investigated as part of my government job. I used to find it very insulting and degrading when my loyalty was questioned in interviews. In time, I realized it was part of the process and it was no longer a bother. Others in positions of trust have betrayed the trust and I now support the somewhat intrusive aspects that proves my integrity.

Police officers need to control the encounter. You knew you are a good guy, but he did not. The first step is to ensure you are not a threat. You should simply follow his directions, though it may make you feel like he is treating you disrespectfully. You help yourself by understanding the nature of the interaction.
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:38   #40
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I'd be livid at being accused of shoplifting, the clerk should be on the unemployed list I'd contact the store manager, It's not shoplifting until you attempt to leave the store.
as far as the ammo just let it be
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:42   #41
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I'd be livid at being accused of shoplifting, the clerk should be on the unemployed list I'd contact the store manager, It's not shoplifting until you attempt to leave the store.
as far as the ammo just let it be
Exactly.. I couldn't believe it. Hell, I still can't believe it.. lol

Regarding the bullet, I spoke with the officer and he said he could drop it off on Monday

Even if I couldnt get that back though, that wouldn't be a big deal.

The guy from the corporate office told me that they will be taking disciplinary action against her, and that they would call me in a few days to "do everything possible to make things right and rectify the situation"

I have a feeling they will try to offer me a gift card or something. If so, it will have to be one with a pretty large amount for me to even consider it.
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Old 04-20-2013, 15:46   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW
I don't know if it's a "law" or not, but LP (loss prevention) in this state instructs employees that they can NOT approach anyone suspected of shoplifting, OR call the police, until they have attempted to leave the store without paying for the items. - It's not a law. Calling the Police to report you suspect someone of a crime is not illegal.

So that is the first screw-up she made.

My wife works as an assistant manager at a clothing store, and this is exactly what their loss prevention team has told her on numerous occasions. -While that is good advice for those interested in obtaining a theft conviction in a criminal court, it has no bearing on what a clerk/employee or LP may decide to do. Some places are more concerned about preventing the theft of an item than getting a criminal charge/prosecution.

The reason why? They said if the employees do not follow these instructions, in this state, the person can legally sue both the company AND the employee. -Third hand tale told to you. Anyone can sue anybody, for anything. Getting a court to proceed with the charge is another thing, much less winning a decision in court.

As for what damage.. hmm, I don't know.. how about slander, defamation of character, emotional distress.. you name it. -That is more than a stretch. Nothing.

I had done nothing wrong at all. -It's not about that, it's what the clerk perceived. Would another reasonable person in her shoes with her training and experience, making the same observations, think something may have been amiss?

She called the police while I was in a dressing room.

The police show up to investigate what they believe is a criminal who is stealing.

When they get there, that "criminal" turns out to be armed.

I could have been killed because of this woman.

Throw in the fact that I've never had any encounters with law enforcement while carrying before, and my first time was under suspicion of a crime, yeah.. just imagine how scared I was.

The whole thing was just ridiculous..

NOT on the officer's part - I don't blame them one bit for anything. They did nothing wrong.

I blame the woman who called them for no reason, since I was not shoving anything down my pants, and I had never attempted to leave the store. -Is there anyway you could see her side? Do you think what she observed may have made her suspicious of someone concealing an item (or better concealing it)?

Going by what LP has stated about shoplifter situations, I have reason to believe that I do in fact have a case against the store and the employee.
BUT the reason I said I will just contact an attorney is because I want to be 100% sure there is a case before I move forward with anything.

I'm not a lawyer. But I'm also not a pushover. What they did was completely uncalled for. If I have to sue and get the woman fired to make that clear, so be it.
-Go ahead and spend the money if you like, I doubt you'll receive the satisfaction you seek. I'm not an attorney-disclaimer.

My suggestion? If you're that unhappy with your experience:

1) Don't shop there anymore
2) Let the owner know why you're not shopping there anymore
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:00   #43
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- It's not a law. Calling the Police to report you suspect someone of a crime is not illegal.
I understand that -- but what was I suspected of doing, since again I wasn't even carrying any merchandise, and I never tried to leave the store?

Suspecting someone of shoplifting (to me anyway) would be:

Person leaves the store. You suspect they shoplifted, since they have already exited the store, and it does not become shoplifting until they leave without paying for an item.

Quote:
-It's not about that, it's what the clerk perceived. Would another reasonable person in her shoes with her training and experience, making the same observations, think something may have been amiss?
I honestly do not think any REASONABLE person would have done the same.
Quote:
-Is there anyway you could see her side? Do you think what she observed may have made her suspicious of someone concealing an item (or better concealing it)?
I doubt it.. I seriously can't think of a single reason - not one - why she would have any suspicion that I was trying to steal anything.

Plus I was not concealing anything (except my pistol, which she and the officer could not see until I told him where it was and he retrieved it) so there was nothing that I would have needed to "conceal better" in the first place.. lol

She told the officer that "she saw a bulge in my pants" and that is why she called them.

LOL.. what she meant by that, I have no idea.

I DO know that she was not referring to my pistol tho.. I do NOT carry that in my pants.

So considering that.. I'm not sure I want to know either.. I am pretty well-endowed in that department so I can only assume by that comment, that this pervy-ass old woman was checking me out..... ew......

I don't know.. I might just wait until the corporate office calls me back & see what they have done about this, and what their idea of "making things right" is before I choose to contact an attorney, since I've had some time to calm down & think things over.

Yesterday when I posted this thread, I had literally just walked in the door after this happened. So I was pretty upset (as you could all probably tell, lol)

But as others have stated, even though nothing came of it it's still just ridiculous to be accused of shoplifting when you haven't done anything wrong.
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:04   #44
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Again, you fail to understand that just because you haven't committed the actual offense doesn't automatically mean the other person was wrong.

I'll try and analogy.

A Cop is driving behind you late at night in a dark location. You change your CD and drop the CD on the floor of the car. You reach down to pick it up and fumble it a couple of times. This causes your car to weave back and forth in your lane for several long seconds.

The Cop stops you and checks you for DUI.

You haven't had a drop to drink or any drug.

Was the Cop wrong?
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:09   #45
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Again, you fail to understand that just because you haven't committed the actual offense doesn't automatically mean the other person was wrong.

I'll try and analogy.

A Cop is driving behind you late at night in a dark location. You change your CD and drop the CD on the floor of the car. You reach down to pick it up and fumble it a couple of times. This causes your car to weave back and forth in your lane for several long seconds.

The Cop stops you and checks you for DUI.

You haven't had a drop to drink or any drug.

Was the Cop wrong?
No, not at all - because swerving could kill someone.

I fail to see how someone "shoving something down their pants" could harm anybody else if I had been doing so.

Not the best analogy. lol

I do see what you're saying though & where you're coming from.

I just can not see where this woman was coming from.

I'll be the first to admit that this probably just hurt my pride more than anything else. I've never had anything like this happen before. EVER..
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:12   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW View Post
No, not at all - because swerving could kill someone.

I fail to see how someone "shoving something down their pants" could harm anybody else if I had been doing so.

Not the best analogy. lol

I do see what you're saying though & where you're coming from.

I just can not see where this woman was coming from.

I'll be the first to admit that this hurt my pride more than anything else. I've never had anything like this happen before. EVER.. -This is understandable, believable, and likely the driving force behind everything.
Take a step back from things, breath a bit, and see what if anything can be learned from this.
Weaving in your own lane isn't against the law in my state, or any others I'm aware of.
No citable offense.
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:13   #47
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Unrelated, but instead of a swear filter, i wish there was a GT filter that would filter out LOL, OMG, etc.......Sometimes I think we are in a forum for teenage Valley girls.....
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:27   #48
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You’re an attention whore looking for a confrontation and you got one. Now you say you’re surprise B.S! It’s just want you wanted.
me thinks someone needs a self-imposed timeout...

on topic, would be indifferent to the sales clerk losing their job; I'd write that off as karma. what would be of concern to me personally is if it came up in system during next ccw renewal. in this instance, it seems as if it has been documented more than thoroughly once it made it to the officer's supervisor, but the fact that it should have never come up in first place would be difficult for me to let go.
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Old 04-20-2013, 16:43   #49
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I don't think suing anybody is the answer. These days nobody has any courage to look at a situation and say opps, a mistake was made, I'll get over it and press on with life.

OP, if you are dead set on pursuing this then go ahead, but it sounds like a "I'll get back at you if it's the last thing I'll do" situation where you are hoping to score something off a lawsuit. Let it go and move on IMHO. Think of it as karma.

Edit: You should never be ashamed of carrying a firearm and letting the cop secure it while he controls the situation. Why do you care what people passing by think? The regular public is uncomfortable around guns and may have been a little curious. Nothing for you to feel like a criminal about.

Fipoj

Last edited by Fipoj; 04-20-2013 at 16:49..
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Old 04-20-2013, 17:02   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosuchagency View Post
me thinks someone needs a self-imposed timeout...

on topic, would be indifferent to the sales clerk losing their job; I'd write that off as karma. what would be of concern to me personally is if it came up in system during next ccw renewal. in this instance, it seems as if it has been documented more than thoroughly once it made it to the officer's supervisor, but the fact that it should have never come up in first place would be difficult for me to let go.
No, I called the supervisor to have them try to get in touch with the officer to make sure he picked up the chambered round & didn't leave it in the store.

Turns out the officer who came & talked with me IS the supervisor from what I understand.. he's the one who returned my call when I left the message for the supervisor so I think he is.

If so, I'm not really worried about that. He knows it should have never happened in the first place.

I plan on asking him about that Monday just to be sure though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipoj View Post
I don't think suing anybody is the answer. These days nobody has any courage to look at a situation and say opps, a mistake was made, I'll get over it and press on with life.

OP, if you are dead set on pursuing this then go ahead, but it sounds like a "I'll get back at you if it's the last thing I'll do" situation where you are hoping to score something off a lawsuit. Let it go and move on IMHO. Think of it as karma.

Edit: You should never be ashamed of carrying a firearm and letting the cop secure it while he controls the situation. Why do you care what people passing by think? The regular public is uncomfortable around guns and may have been a little curious. Nothing for you to feel like a criminal about.

Fipoj
Yeah.. I don't know man, I probably won't be suing.

It just made me feel better to say it at the time I guess.

I suppose a complaint to corporate is enough justice for me.

& I know its nothing to be ashamed of, in fact its common practice for them.

I've just never been through it before, and this was under suspicion of a crime that I hadn't even committed (or even thought about committing) so that probably had something to do with it.

It just really freaked me out man..

Anyway, I suppose I'll just drop it. You guys are right.. no point wasting time & money on a lawsuit for this.

I can't take back my complaint to corporate though, but even if I could I probably wouldn't.
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