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Old 04-07-2013, 00:16   #21
Tiro Fijo
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I'm sure that any thoughts about expanding production are shelved for now with several states passing sweeping anti-gun legislation. Can't blame them.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:21   #22
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
I'm sure that any thoughts about expanding production are shelved for now with several states passing sweeping anti-gun legislation. Can't blame them.
Its more to do with Walther importing them in batches, even in the P99 days they were hard to get then one month there would be a flood of P99's maybe now they have a in-house importer the supplies will become more steady
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:50   #23
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Examples?
A few off the top of my head:

Using Smith and Wesson as their importer, marketer, and service division. But, from what I've read and heard, SW does very well in servicing the Walther. Back when that agreement was first penned, SW still had a LOT of gun owners in a snit over the SW deal with Klinton. That didn't help Walther a bit.

Not having a stronger presence in local gun stores. I've never been able to find more than the basic model in any LGS. Some didn't even carry the P99AS. That could be the fault of SW.

Walther was counting on SW to import and market, when SW had their own versions competing: the SW99 and now the SWAMP.

Allowing SW to make a licensed copy, the SW99. The early years were atrocious. People judged the P99 by the SW99, and since gun stores only had SW99 but no P99, customers were allowed to be ignorant of the differences.

Now licensing Magnum Research to make the "Baby Eagle" based on the P99. It dilutes the market, and like with the SW99, novice shooters assume them to be the same firearm, when the quality was noticeably different. People judge the P99 based on the Baby Eagle and the SW99.

The P99 is an OUTSTANDING polymer pistol, and they should have protected the rights like it was their daughters virtue. But instead, they bastardized and diluted the brand.

Not offering a model in .45. We Americans love our big calibers.

Slow to offer the compact versions. IMO, they should have done like Glock, and offer various sizes and calibers. The P99 is the one firearm that would cause me to act like a Glockophile, and buy every model, caliber, size, color, and variant. But I do like they they offer other models like the PPS and the PPX. I just wished the PPX had a paddle mag release. Maybe they do in Euroland.

Allowing a rumor to be started that the PPQ with the paddle mag release will not be offered in the US- or even considering not selling the PPQ M1 in the US. An executive with Walther USA marketing posts at the Walther Forums and has said the jury is still out. It was silly, to let it become an issue.

If Walther had stuck to the paddle release, in 10 years, every manufacturer would be using it. It's just that functional. Instead, they revert to the button style, which has a way of implying the paddle was a failure. And it's not.

And now, because of the P99\PPQM1\PPQM2 issues, there is going to be a lot of confusion about the interchangeability of magazines.

Not shipping enough product to the US. There have been numerous long periods of time over the last few years when you just couldn't find a P99. When a shipment arrived, they were snapped up PDQ and the shelves were bare again.

By policy, prioritizing the European market and almost ignoring the US consumer market. Which could be because of SW.

Anytime you allow a competitor to be your marketing division, you are not too serious, or not too smart.

Signed: Rooster J. Rugburn, frustrated Waltherphile.
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Old 04-07-2013, 21:12   #24
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It's true. Only Walther's marketing department could take a product with HK-quality engineering, a 1911-quality trigger, and a Glock-level price point, and make it at best a mediocre commercial success.
Let's hope that was because of using SW as their marketing arm, and now the worm is going to turn.

The VP of marketing, or something, is participating and listening at Walther Forums. If more logical, rational, and intelligent people like you can post over there, Walther USA might just turn it around.

I don't need for Walther to unseat Glock as "America's Pistol", that's never mattered to me, we have the Glock to thank for the PPQ pricing. I just want to be able to get the version I like best.
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Old 04-07-2013, 21:28   #25
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The only complaint I ever heard about the PPQ when it was brought up in my circles was the euro style mag release.
I hear that too, but mostly from rank amateurs who have only taken one class, to get a permit to carry, and pretend to know everything about everything.

I don't get why folks are so resistant to change, when change is an improvement. Could it be that they have their loyalty to another brand, and use the paddle release as the justification?

The paddle release allows the magazine to be dropped without taking the sights off the target, and without having to change your grip on the pistol. How can anyone see that as a bad thing? Do people really think that in a gunfight, they are going to have the dexterity to change grip, push button, and resume a firing grip? Or that there is no possibility that in doing all that, problems can occur? And how it is better, to have to go through all of that to change the magazine?

It takes about 10 minutes of dry fire practice to get where you can drop the magazine, without taking the sights off the target. In 20 minutes, you can drop the magazine, without changing the alignment of the sight picture. I don't see how that is a bad thing. No changing the grip, no taking the pistol off target. It's just the easy.

I'm open minded. When I saw it, I tried it, and I liked it, and I could immediately see it as an improvement. And it shaves seconds off IDPA times.

Maybe the Euro way is actually more functional.
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Old 04-07-2013, 22:14   #26
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here is my ppq with paddle release . i would not have it any other way
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umm excuse me are those extragent circus pants you have on ?? or do you work for a circus ?
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Old 04-07-2013, 22:38   #27
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Rooster, trust me that if you have to do a mag drop you will be moving to cover (if not already there) ASAP and not looking at sights. You will be (if smart enough) doing a rapid mental sitrep and not simply standing there with your wiener in the wind doing a reload la Dirty Harry. That is pure IDPA, middle of the afternoon, dorky photog vest fantasy for desk jockeys who dream of being real "operators".
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:57   #28
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It doesn't matter where you change your magazine: be it under cover, while diving for cover, or standing on a shooting line in a class. It's a dumb idea to plan to change your grip in a defensive situation.

Personally, I've never felt the average civilian will ever need to change magazines in a gun fight. EVERY video I've ever seen, c-store, jewelry store, gas pump, sidewalk.... after the first defensive shot, the perps go from 0 to 15mph in about 3 steps. That don't have any intentions of exchanging gunfire.

But, in every class I've taken, they had us change magazines. Even if you drop your magazine while moving and diving for cover, it's still stupid to have to change the grip on the pistol. I've seen the difference between keeping the grip on the pistol in every situation, vs having to change the grip on the pistol in every situation.

As for magazines changes, it's what is taught by every school.

Here is where I differ from EVERY school I've trained with: I do not believe in the "tactical reload". It's stupid. The idea that a civilian is going to be able to maintain the dexterity needed to go through all those steps during an adrenaline dump is ridiculous. IMO, they are training you to fail. Just like the CHP who died with a hand full of brass, the CCW will die with a handful of magazines. Fumbling to change magazines in that situation is idiotic. Anytime you have to change magazines in a defensive situation, is an emergency.

It's pure IDPA, middle of the afternoon, dorky photog vest fantasy for desk jockeys who dream of being real "operators" thinking to believe you can actually change the grip on your pistol two times during a stressful situation without screwing up. I know my limitations. "Tactical reload" and changing your grip on a pistol during a defensive situation is stupid.

You really think it's a good idea, to have to change the grip on the gun while diving or moving for cover?
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:28   #29
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The M2 mag change thing is REALLY interesting to me because:

I own a Q Classic, and am a lefty.

I've only been shooting a few years, and during most of that time have been shooting either a PPQ or Gen 4 G22. On either of these guns, fast mags changes are possible for me withOUT needing to change my grip at all.

I also only recently realized that most guns, even if set up for a lefty, would require me to change my grip to do a mag swap. If I was right handed, even a Gen 3 Glock would require a grip change, as the grip is slightly larger, and the mag release button slightly smaller compared to a Gen 4.

I really like not needing to shift my grip, and will try to make it a criteria for future purchases.

I'm not a real "operator", and don't want a grip shift for a fast mag change to be one more thing to need to train for. As someone else noted, it simply seems to me like shifting grip during high stress could go south very easily.

I'll check out a PPQ M2 when more mags are available. If I can release the mag without a grip change, I'll swap out my Classic for an M2. If not, I'll keep my Classic.

From the feedback I've got here on this very topic, it sounds quite possible.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:52   #30
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...You really think it's a good idea, to have to change the grip on the gun while diving or moving for cover?

Most people will do well just to hang onto the gun. No, it's not absolutely essential to know how to do an IPSC champ level reload. The one caveat is IF you carry a revolver as your primary weapon. Then one should practice speed reloads. Maybe someone carrying a small single stack semi-auto as well as many people today seem to be obsessed with "comfort" above everything.

That said, if the average layman finds themselves in the unlikely scenario whereas they have had to unload a full mag from say a 15 rd. G19 AND the situation is not resolved their first priority should be either getting to cover and/or self extraction from the vicinity, albeit safely, which may very well require a reload and suppressing fire. Extraction being the better choice if possible.

Again, in a civilian scenario this is about as likely as Rosie O'Donnell in a bikini. Most criminals don't want to go "toe to toe" in a High Noon style shoot 'em up.

Will the average layman need a reload? Probably not. However, although I don't plan on having a flat tire today I still have a spare in the trunk.

Last edited by Tiro Fijo; 04-08-2013 at 10:54..
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:44   #31
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...IF you carry a revolver as your primary weapon. Then one should practice speed reloads...
IF you carry a revolver as your primary weapon, and anticipate a need - ever - to reload under fire, you should start carrying a Glock.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:49   #32
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I don't mind the button mag release, although I prefer the paddle release. My first pistol with the paddle release was an HK P7M8, if you can call it a paddle. I thought it was the coolest thing to be able to release the mag with my index finger. There is definitely minimal amount of shift in my grip.

For those who have owned both the M1 and M2 PPQ, do you feel the M2 trigger was improved? I am going to bring my M1 to the shop to do a compare. Let's hope the gun will still be for sale at the shop.
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Old 04-08-2013, 14:35   #33
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I have shot several of the Classic versions and now own an M2 version. I haven't noticed much difference between the triggers on them to be honest. All of them were head and shoulders above any of my other polymer pistols triggers.

I can take the paddle style or the button release and use both just fine. That is of course running typical drills and things of that nature. Now when the SHTF I am not sure the Paddle release would be a help to me, and may actually cost me.

I am accustomed to the button release and have been training with style of release for 30 + years(Browning HP and 1911 being the first ones). I have been in high stress SHTF situations and had to reload, which I honestly don't remember doing. My muscle memory has been trained for the button style.

I would suspect the button release would be strange for someone who has trained with the paddle release in the same way. They would probably be able to use it just fine, but when SHTF they would likely be indexing the trigger guard in vain.

IMO both systems work just fine as long as you are competent and fully trained for that system. Criticizing the M2 over the classic and vise versa is difficult for me since I can use either system effectively under most circumstances.

Now comparing the Classic's paddle release to other conventional button release firearms you will get a different answer. Yes I am used to the conventional, but I feel the paddle is a better system. Not having to break your grip is always more efficient.

FWIW I have relatively smallish hands and I can operate the M2 release with out breaking my grip. I can do the same with the Classic version as well.

I looked at the magazine issue when I got my M2. I figured Walther may or may not continue importing the classic version to the US. The M2 is here to stay and in the future would be easier to get magazines for.

My opinion is mine, and this time was not alcohol induced.

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Old 04-08-2013, 17:57   #34
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn View Post
It doesn't matter where you change your magazine: be it under cover, while diving for cover, or standing on a shooting line in a class. It's a dumb idea to plan to change your grip in a defensive situation.

Personally, I've never felt the average civilian will ever need to change magazines in a gun fight. EVERY video I've ever seen, c-store, jewelry store, gas pump, sidewalk.... after the first defensive shot, the perps go from 0 to 15mph in about 3 steps. That don't have any intentions of exchanging gunfire.

But, in every class I've taken, they had us change magazines. Even if you drop your magazine while moving and diving for cover, it's still stupid to have to change the grip on the pistol. I've seen the difference between keeping the grip on the pistol in every situation, vs having to change the grip on the pistol in every situation.

As for magazines changes, it's what is taught by every school.

Here is where I differ from EVERY school I've trained with: I do not believe in the "tactical reload". It's stupid. The idea that a civilian is going to be able to maintain the dexterity needed to go through all those steps during an adrenaline dump is ridiculous. IMO, they are training you to fail. Just like the CHP who died with a hand full of brass, the CCW will die with a handful of magazines. Fumbling to change magazines in that situation is idiotic. Anytime you have to change magazines in a defensive situation, is an emergency.

It's pure IDPA, middle of the afternoon, dorky photog vest fantasy for desk jockeys who dream of being real "operators" thinking to believe you can actually change the grip on your pistol two times during a stressful situation without screwing up. I know my limitations. "Tactical reload" and changing your grip on a pistol during a defensive situation is stupid.

You really think it's a good idea, to have to change the grip on the gun while diving or moving for cover?

Rooster, are you really advocating for people to not to train/practice reloading? Most shooting hardly even involve aiming, surely you wouldn't suggest that we don't practice aiming?

You are right though, the average guy probably doesn't need to practice it, because he will never master it. And in a real defensive situation, you will default to the level of training that you have Mastered. Which is why ALL the top schools teach it.

And while we are dispelling myths.....CHP Officer James Pence did NOT die with a hand full of Brass.
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Old 04-17-2013, 19:39   #35
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I just picked up my new PPQ M2 this week. Having HK's in the past, I didn't mind the paddle mag release but I do prefer the new M2 mag release. Trigger pull on these PPQ's are fantastic.

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