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Old 03-27-2013, 06:11   #876
Lady Glock
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Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
When you drive do you do so in the same way no matter what the road conditions? Do you keep your speed at 70 mph on the Interstate even during an ice storm because the law posts the speed limit at that rate? Or do you vary your driving depending upon the specific conditions?

The driving metaphor is applicable to CCW methods where one determines the conditions prevalent at any given time. In my case it's usually C3 but at times it's C1. If one varies one's vehicular speed according to conditions there's no reason to expect him/her to hold his/her CCW method no matter what the condition, as both firearms and vehicles are potentially deadly machines that can and do get beyond one's control.
I only have one issue with this approach. If you train in both C1 and C3, then you might be causing your muscle memory conflict if/when you need your firearm for SD. I have done all my training in C1, that way when SHTF and I need it, my muscle memory already knows what is needed. Your mind isn't going to be able to function like you want it to as the adrenaline is going to be in overflow.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:48   #877
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Originally Posted by Lady Glock View Post
I only have one issue with this approach. If you train in both C1 and C3, then you might be causing your muscle memory conflict if/when you need your firearm for SD. I have done all my training in C1, that way when SHTF and I need it, my muscle memory already knows what is needed. Your mind isn't going to be able to function like you want it to as the adrenaline is going to be in overflow.
Yes, this is true. Aside from the fact that almost certainly, you are just never going to know when and from where an attack is going to come. It might be nice if there were such guarantees in life but there just aren't any that I know of.

And then there is the increased danger of handling one's firearm rather frequently as they go from "safe" places to not so safe locales. One would be removing the magazine and the chambered round, and then when they get to a not so safe place, chambering a round and then topping off the magazine with the prior extracted round. Lots of removing and inserting the gun in the holster with all of this. Heck, some scared citizen seeing someone do this might call the police claiming brandishing or something of the sort.

Nope, not something wise to do. Best to stay either unchambered or chambered when out and about. So to our friends here on this thread who are adamant about going C3, I would suggest staying in that condition regardless of where you are. Since you are so concerned about safety, you must believe that the added handling or your sidearm increases the chance of a AD so don't do this. Nothing wrong with carrying C3 if that is your wont. But you would be wise to leave your gun in that state and not be shifting from C3 to C1 and back again as you migrate through your day and activities while out and about.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:05   #878
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Honestly, I think it all comes down to "preference". If you prefer to carry C1 (as I do) then do so. If you prefer not to carry C1, then don't. But for Gods sake, polish your skills on racking a round into that chamber, quickly and safely.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:14   #879
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Originally Posted by JohnnyE View Post
There was an episode within the last, oh, 18 months, where a man's worn leather holster caught the trigger while, IIRC, he was sitting or wiggling around in his car seat. Bullet entered this thigh, pierced a major artery, and he bled out. Not a finger, but a failure in that he should have retired that worn out holster long ago.

I think you are consolidating two unrelated events. The was an incident where a worn holster caused an unintended discharge, seriously wounding a car seat, the guys pants and underwear. This was a vey close call.

Another case was where a mans wife was returning a movie, while he and their children were waiting in the car. He shot himself in the leg (or hip) while unbuckling his seatbelt ( or putzing around with his gun). He died of blood loss at the scene. (There are two slightly different reports of the event).
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:07   #880
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
Yes, this is true. Aside from the fact that almost certainly, you are just never going to know when and from where an attack is going to come. It might be nice if there were such guarantees in life but there just aren't any that I know of.

And then there is the increased danger of handling one's firearm rather frequently as they go from "safe" places to not so safe locales. One would be removing the magazine and the chambered round, and then when they get to a not so safe place, chambering a round and then topping off the magazine with the prior extracted round. Lots of removing and inserting the gun in the holster with all of this. Heck, some scared citizen seeing someone do this might call the police and claiming brandishing or something of the sort.

Nope, not something wise to do. Best to stay either unchambered or chambered when out and about. So to our friends here on this thread who are adamant about going C3, I would suggest staying in that condition regardless of where you are. Since you are so concerned about safety, you must believe that the added handling or your sidearm increases the chance of a AD so don't do this. Nothing wrong with carrying C3 if that is your wont. But you would be wise to leave your gun in that state and not be shifting from C3 to C1 and back again as you migrate through your day and activities while out and about.
Yes, if we knew where the attack would happen, we could avoid that area and thereby avoid the attack. You would think you would be safe in your own home with multiple locks engaged...I found out several years ago that is not the case. I choose to carry C1 because I never know how much time I would have to chamber a round, if one arm is disabled and unable to be used to chamber the round, etc... I am always aware of my surroundings since the attack on me, but that doesn't mean I am always free from being attacked again. I will NOT be a victim again (God willing). I wish I had a gun then, but I was naive and didn't believe anything like that would ever happen to me. If I had been armed and trained as I am now, I wouldn't have to deal with parole hearings every 3 years.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:22   #881
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Originally Posted by PEC-Memphis View Post
I think you are consolidating two unrelated events. The was an incident where a worn holster caused an unintended discharge, seriously wounding a car seat, the guys pants and underwear. This was a vey close call.

Another case was where a mans wife was returning a movie, while he and their children were waiting in the car. He shot himself in the leg (or hip) while unbuckling his seatbelt ( or putzing around with his gun). He died of blood loss at the scene. (There are two slightly different reports of the event).
I stand corrected. It appears I rolled TWO ND incidents into one. Maybe that doubly proves my point. In both cases, gunowners were at fault for not exercising due care regarding their actions,either involving gun handling, or ensuring the condition of critical equipment. The key failures occurred between their ears.

Last edited by JohnnyE; 03-27-2013 at 12:22..
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:58   #882
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Yes, if we knew where the attack would happen, we could avoid that area and thereby avoid the attack. You would think you would be safe in your own home with multiple locks engaged...I found out several years ago that is not the case. I choose to carry C1 because I never know how much time I would have to chamber a round, if one arm is disabled and unable to be used to chamber the round, etc... I am always aware of my surroundings since the attack on me, but that doesn't mean I am always free from being attacked again. I will NOT be a victim again (God willing). I wish I had a gun then, but I was naive and didn't believe anything like that would ever happen to me. If I had been armed and trained as I am now, I wouldn't have to deal with parole hearings every 3 years.
Bless you.

I know I have said over and over that in my opinion, how one carries, what they carry, or even if they don't wish to carry is entirely up to them... their choice, plain and simple. And I faithfully adhere to that. However, when people create a thread with the explicit purpose of hearing ideas, comments, and opinions from others on a topic, they should be prepared for just that. The folks who respond should also be prepared for a variety responses to not only the OP's post but their's as well.

The problem I do have is this. The lack of civility that almost inevitably evolves on threads where there are hard held beliefs being challenged. Some people, for the life of them, just cannot seem to discuss something in an intelligent, rational, and civil manner. Another thing is almost certain introduction of responses by some people who believe themselves to be the be-all end-all to any related subject in the gun culture world. The self-perceived gurus, if you will. So it is hard to maintain one's composure at times when faced with this sort of onslaught when it should be an adult discussion.

Now I just veered a bit from your post but I think with good reason. This thread has gone on for a lot of postings and pages and for such a simple topic. Guess that only confirms the visceral reactions of some of the responses and that opinions on this subject are deeply entrenched.
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Old 03-27-2013, 15:09   #883
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Originally Posted by dwbG30SF View Post
Honestly, I think it all comes down to "preference". If you prefer to carry C1 (as I do) then do so. If you prefer not to carry C1, then don't. But for Gods sake, polish your skills on racking a round into that chamber, quickly and safely.
Therein lies the rub. Sometimes, racking doesn't work out the way we'd like, and it's necessary to rack the slide a second time. Precious seconds can be lost.
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Old 03-27-2013, 20:49   #884
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Gun hot and ready to go. Might as well carry a hammer instead if you're not gonna chamber a round. Your gun isn't gonna get mad and just decide to shoot you in the thigh.
Yep get a hammer or have you considered a revolver?
Bought the wrong gun for your mind set.
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Old 03-27-2013, 21:19   #885
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Carry a revolver then. What a revolver doesnt have a safety either? Stick with a slingshot in your back pocket and a put a marble in front pocket.
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Old 03-28-2013, 19:41   #886
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http://www.insidenova.com/news/crime...a4bcf887a.html

For those who do not know, Tyson's Corner is a major shopping and office location that is one of the most exclusive places of its kind in not only The Washington, DC metro area, but in the entire country since Fairfax County, Virginia is the second wealthy county in the nation, surpassed only by Loudoun County, Virginia.

Criminal attacks can take place anywhere at any time.
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Old 03-28-2013, 21:12   #887
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For those who do not know, Tyson's Corner is a major shopping and office location that is one of the most exclusive places of its kind in not only The Washington, DC metro area, but in the entire country since Fairfax County, Virginia is the second wealthy county in the nation, surpassed only by Loudoun County, Virginia.

Criminal attacks can take place anywhere at any time.
That's certainly a C1 place to live. I agree.

But there's also a C3 place to live where people don't even lock their front doors. I think people live in C1 places to make money to a point where they have enough to move to a C3 place. Some could never get out of C1 places. And some would buy the whole C3 island. LOL

By and large, People's imagination is limited by what they see and swim in, days in and days out. Their words speak more about what they have to face daily. In that sense, none is wrong.

Last edited by ModGlock17; 03-28-2013 at 21:23..
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Old 03-28-2013, 21:49   #888
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That's certainly a C1 place to live. I agree.

But there's also a C3 place to live where people don't even lock their front doors. I think people live in C1 places to make money to a point where they have enough to move to a C3 place. Some could never get out of C1 places. And some would buy the whole C3 island. LOL

By and large, People's imagination is limited by what they see and swim in, days in and days out. Their words speak more about what they have to face daily. In that sense, none is wrong.
IMO, planet Earth is now a C1 place and the only known official C3 place is found in La-La Land...
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:01   #889
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Nice conversation. Good points.

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Old 03-29-2013, 06:58   #890
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IMO, planet Earth is now a C1 place and the only known official C3 place is found in La-La Land...
Yes. Anyone who thinks different should look up the "BTK" killer. Bad **** has happened in good neighborhoods since the beginning of time.
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Old 03-31-2013, 18:42   #891
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there is ONLY ONE reason i carry 1 in the chamber, because it doesnt work reliably with 2
That is an awesome answer! My instructor told me that the only safety ANY gun has is your trigger finger... Dont want it to shoot dont put your finger on the trigger.
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Old 03-31-2013, 19:07   #892
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I live in a metro area of a few million people. I see crime reports on the local news almost every night.

I have never personally known of a crime (property or personal). No one I know has ever been a victim. Yes, I'm boring.

Though crime can happen anywhere, most crime maps will show a clear pattern of those "C1" places you already know you should avoid.

The whole world is not a C1 place

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Old 03-31-2013, 20:41   #893
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Im very new to this forum and until I saw this thread I didn't even realize that people would even consider carrying a firearm without a round in the chamber ! I didn't come close to reading this whole thread but I can't imagine that there are very many people carrying this way.

I mean what are these people doing that they are afraid they are going to accidentally discharge their weapon? This lack of confidence really makes me question whether they should be carrying a gun at all.

I'm not trying to insult anyone that carries this way, to each his own but I was honestly surprised to see that this was actually a decision that people had to make.
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Old 03-31-2013, 21:23   #894
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Im very new to this forum and until I saw this thread I didn't even realize that people would even consider carrying a firearm without a round in the chamber ! I didn't come close to reading this whole thread but I can't imagine that there are very many people carrying this way.

I mean what are these people doing that they are afraid they are going to accidentally discharge their weapon? This lack of confidence really makes me question whether they should be carrying a gun at all.

I'm not trying to insult anyone that carries this way, to each his own but I was honestly surprised to see that this was actually a decision that people had to make.
I believe you misread the reason why some CCW permit holders choose to carry C3. Speaking for myself it's not due to a lack of confidence in my ability to safely carry in C1, as I did carry C1 for most of the time I've had a permit and never negligently or accidentally discharged any of the firearms I own.

Reading various threads on this and other sites I became acutely aware that quite a lot of gun owners --- many of whom I know have far more firearms experience than I do --- testified that they suffered an AD/ND incident, which has caused me to closely evaluate the when and where in my life carrying C1 outweighs carrying C3 in the risk/reward calculation.

Yes, I know a violent crime can happen anywhere but in the totality of the issue the statistical probabilities of it happening involve a number of things, such as location, time of day, prevalence of alcohol/drugs, presence of known felons, etc ... As each of these facets increase or decrease the probabilities of encountering a violent crime rise or fall, in my understanding of the issue. And since I'm sure none of the gun owners intended for their AD/ND incidents to happen as long as I feel my immediate conditions call for C3 I'll for the present time continue to err on the side of safety.

As I type this I'm sitting in the comfort of my home, doors and windows locked, an alert (albeit over-friendly) dog who barks at every unfamiliar sound, and motion lights at various points around the outside of the house. I feel quite safe having my pistol at the bedside in C3 condition. I do not spend the vast bulk of my life constantly in Condition Orange (based upon my staid routine) and I estimate the percentage of time I do is less than 0.01% of the time. In that slim percentage of time I am on elevated alert I am carrying C1. This does not mean I ignore my surroundings during my normal routine; it merely means that I feel I will have the extra second to rack the slide in most bad scenarios I envision.

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Orange: Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot that person today", focusing on the specific target which has caused the escalation in alert status. In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that person does "X", I will need to stop them". Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:40   #895
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I always carry one in the chamber, my safety is the the trigger. Dont touch the trigger unless you plan shooting something.
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Old 04-01-2013, 17:35   #896
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I always carry one in the chamber, my safety is the the trigger. Dont touch the trigger unless you plan shooting something.
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Old 04-02-2013, 00:04   #897
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I always have a round chambered. There is no reason not to. I don't see any possible way for me to shoot myself unless its intentional suicide. Finger off the trigger unless you need to shoot someone or something.
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Old 04-02-2013, 00:13   #898
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I carry one in the chamber everywhere I go. The only place my gun does not have a round chambered is when I'm at home. If someone decided to come in my house I'll have plenty of time to rack the slide and aim at the door.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:41   #899
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I carry one in the chamber everywhere I go. The only place my gun does not have a round chambered is when I'm at home. If someone decided to come in my house I'll have plenty of time to rack the slide and aim at the door.
I carry 15 in my G19 mag, but the chamber is empty. The distance between the top round in the mag and the chamber is only about .5", so I almost carry C1.

The following was posted on a blog about CC by an advocate for C3:

"Now pay careful attention to what I’m going to say next: I might very well still be alive today because I carry in C-3. Why, you ask? Because I realize that I’m at a slight disadvantage; consequently, I’m always a little more apprehensive, a little more alert, and a little faster than I otherwise might be."

I'd say paying careful attention to one's surroundings and avoiding trouble spots makes C3 with a Glock more acceptable to many.

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Old 04-02-2013, 09:29   #900
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It seems we have one misunderstanding that forces us to either talk past each other or feel like the other side is too stubborn/foolish.

Here it is:
C1 folks say: deadly threat can occur to anyone, anywhere, anytime. True.
C3 folks say: some geographic areas (or occupations) are safer than others, and merit different levels of preparedness. Also, true.

Both statements are not contradicting each other. The first, says there is a probability that anyone/anywhere might get attacked. The other one adds a nuance that such probability is higher or lower (depending on one's geographic area/occupation). Ignoring one or another statement might make us feel better about how we choose to protect ourselves, but might be counterproductive to developing the most rational approach to self defense.
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