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Old 03-24-2013, 00:15   #41
Vic Hays
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The Nicene Creed was written at the same time in the same place by the same people that canonized the Bible and decided the date for Easter. You can pick and choose what traditions you choose, but from a logical perspective, they're all of equal value.
Traditions have never been of more importance than the word of God.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:46   #42
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Traditions have never been of more importance than the word of God.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
"The Word of God" is tradition. It contains "commandments of men" from one end to the other. A big hand didn't come out of the sky and write it.

Who decided which books would be in the Bible and which ones wouldn't? Who left out "The Gospel of Thomas", the "Gospel of Peter", etc.?
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:12   #43
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"The Word of God" is tradition. It contains "commandments of men" from one end to the other. A big hand didn't come out of the sky and write it.
Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

So you don't believe. You are making an unsupported assumption based on your unbelief.
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Old 03-24-2013, 13:26   #44
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Did the authors of the New testament believe Jesus was coming right back?
IMO? Yes they probably did. But they also wrote that with God one thousand years is like a day.And a day a thousand years. Proving men wrong doesn't equal proving God's Word wrong. If you're saying its easier to give everything away and follow Jesus if you knew you weren't going to be here tomorrow you'd probably be right. But no one is promised tomorrow.
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Old 03-24-2013, 15:00   #45
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"The Word of God" is tradition. It contains "commandments of men" from one end to the other. A big hand didn't come out of the sky and write it.

Who decided which books would be in the Bible and which ones wouldn't? Who left out "The Gospel of Thomas", the "Gospel of Peter", etc.?
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Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
So who decided which books would be in the Bible and which ones wouldn't? Who left out "The Gospel of Thomas", the "Gospel of Peter", etc.?

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So you don't believe. You are making an unsupported assumption based on your unbelief.
I'm basing my statement on historical fact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea On what are your unsupported assumptions based?

A non sequitur is still a non sequitur even if it is a verse from the Bible. Those are not magical words that somehow make the irrational rational.
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Old 03-24-2013, 15:09   #46
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IMO? Yes they probably did. But they also wrote that with God one thousand years is like a day.And a day a thousand years. Proving men wrong doesn't equal proving God's Word wrong. If you're saying its easier to give everything away and follow Jesus if you knew you weren't going to be here tomorrow you'd probably be right. But no one is promised tomorrow.
Jesus promised that those him heard him speaking at the temple would live to see his return. He says nothing about years. He didn't keep his promise. How could the people who wrote the Bible be mistaken about something this important? If they were mistaken about what Jesus said about when he would return, they why is it unreasonable to believe they were mistaken about his returning.
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Old 03-24-2013, 15:13   #47
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The 10 commandments are not Christian values IMO. (Paul refers to them as the ministry of death). They are simply there to show us we can never live up to God's standard. (Who among us hasn't told a lie or taken something that wasn't ours or coveted)?

The main purpose of the 10 commandments is to show you (us) that we need Jesus.

I think The real Christian value is a life lived that brings glory to God. Primarily through sacrifice. Trusting Him daily to give us what we need. Easy to say. Hard to do. I can't seem to pull it off.
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Old 03-24-2013, 17:59   #48
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They are simply there to show us we can never live up to God's standard. ..................................... I can't seem to pull it off.
The religion of excuses.

You can live up to your highest ideas of life, love, and spirituality. When you fail, it is a good thing that you can see it, so you can make up your mind to live up to the high standard of godliness.

Yes we can. We can live godly and good lives. That is an old school Christian value.

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Old 03-24-2013, 21:44   #49
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The religion of excuses.

You can live up to your highest ideas of life, love, and spirituality. When you fail, it is a good thing that you can see it, so you can make up your mind to live up to the high standard of godliness.

Yes we can. We can live godly and good lives. That is an old school Christian value.

.
Good post

We have no excuses. Jesus sinless life shows that it can be done. It requires that we be born again that our goal is to live up to the high standard. When we fail we have a forgiving Father who can forgive us because Jesus paid the price for our past present and future sins. We will eventually be changed to be like Jesus in character if we persevere.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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Old 03-24-2013, 22:54   #50
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Jesus sinless life shows that it can be done.
Jesus wasn't, according to the Bible, human. He also wasn't sinless, according to the Bible.

Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. (Matthew 21:18-19)

Sounds like wrath to me.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:28   #51
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Jesus wasn't, according to the Bible, human. He also wasn't sinless, according to the Bible.

Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. (Matthew 21:18-19)

Sounds like wrath to me.
Wrath is not necessarily a sin. The fig tree represented Jerusalem. It was full of green leaves, but no fruit. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah and as a consequence received desolation.

Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:35   #52
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Wrath is not necessarily a sin.
Good morning Vic.

Justifying our actions is part of the human experience. We make the rules and live up to our own standard.

The law is the ministry of death because no one can live up to it. If you are trying to live up to the laws of the past you will always fall short and end in guilt. The fix is to allow change and be the highest authority through your own justification.

.
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Old 03-25-2013, 15:04   #53
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Good morning Vic.

Justifying our actions is part of the human experience. We make the rules and live up to our own standard.

The law is the ministry of death because no one can live up to it. If you are trying to live up to the laws of the past you will always fall short and end in guilt. The fix is to allow change and be the highest authority through your own justification.

.
The spirit of the law is the standard. People evade the spirit of the law by technicalities. Justification is through Christ and His merits. Our merits cannot justify us.

Mark 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Mark 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus gives the above example to show how people were using a technicality to avoid caring for their aged parents. He did not give license to do according to whatever. The fifth commandment is clearly upheld here.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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Old 03-25-2013, 15:25   #54
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Wrath is not necessarily a sin...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins


I see "wrath" listed there.



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Old 03-25-2013, 18:54   #55
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Wrath is not necessarily a sin.
A handy bit of revisionism.

Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. (Ephesians 4:31)
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The fig tree represented Jerusalem. It was full of green leaves, but no fruit. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah and as a consequence received desolation.
So the fig tree suffered for the actions of others? Are you under the impression that plants control when they produce fruit? Do you think Jesus thought that?
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Old 03-25-2013, 19:05   #56
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Sin is what Vic say's it is.
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Old 03-25-2013, 21:03   #57
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Bible definition

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
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Old 03-25-2013, 21:05   #58
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A handy bit of revisionism.

Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. (Ephesians 4:31)
So the fig tree suffered for the actions of others? Are you under the impression that plants control when they produce fruit? Do you think Jesus thought that?
Are you for real? Do you think there could be a deeper meaning?

You certainly added the meaning to Jesus actions as being included in your quoted text. I don't see any words signifying that this was wrath or malice.
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Old 03-25-2013, 22:07   #59
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Are you for real? Do you think there could be a deeper meaning?
Sure, there could be, but it's also an example of Jesus exhibiting wrath, one of the seven deadly sins as pointed out above.
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You certainly added the meaning to Jesus actions as being included in your quoted text. I don't see any words signifying that this was wrath or malice.
It has to actually say the words for that meaning to be assigned? Noted. But applying your definition of sin above, Jesus was sinning all the time, since the law was still in effect and He did things like working on the Sabbath and various other transgressions of the law.
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Old 03-25-2013, 22:15   #60
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Wrath is not necessarily a sin.
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I don't see any words signifying that this was wrath or malice.
Which is it? Could you pick a position and stick with it for more than a post or two? Just for the sake of the discussion if nothing else.
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