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Old 03-21-2013, 23:05   #1
Ranger357
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Black coated Ranger SXT

I know likely been asked before, but with Winchesters Ranger line you pretty much need score card, calculator, and thesourus on to figure out whats what.

Recently got a box of 9mm Ranger SXT (RA9SXT) from Cabelas as a gift, but the bullets are coated in black with brass cases. All the Ranger ammo I've seen for years had copper colored bullets, with no black coating.

Just trying to figure out if I got new ammo, or some old stock from some time before???
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Old 03-21-2013, 23:37   #2
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Think that's a law enforcement version of the Black Talon. Slightly different bullet design than the Black Talon bullet in a more "politically correct" name.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:46   #3
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Sounds like an older version.

Does the case-head stamp have a year date? Some do, some don't.

I still have some earlier production boxes of the 127gr +P+ loads, with the box end flap labeled SXT and RA9SXTP.
Caliber Corner
Caliber Corner

Here's a couple different revisions of the standard pressure 147gr load. Notice both are labeled as SXT, but one has the Symbol Code RA9SXT and the other one is RA9T. I have boxes of each, and I think I also have some of the more current T-Series/RA9T, as well. (Although no picture)
Caliber Corner

Aside from dropping the black Lubalox coating, they've also made some revisions over the years. Some can be seen when you look carefully inside the nose cavity, comparing the jacket petal cuts/shape.
Caliber Corner

Hotpig's a better resource for the info, as I don't try to keep up from one revision, refinement or tweak to the next. I mostly take it from the boxes and just use it.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:50   #4
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Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
Sounds like an older version.

Does the case-head stamp have a year date? Some do, some don't.

I still have some earlier production boxes of the 127gr +P+ loads, with the box end flap labeled SXT and RA9SXTP.
Caliber Corner
Caliber Corner

Here's a couple different revisions of the standard pressure 147gr load. Notice both are labeled as SXT, but one has the Symbol Code RA9SXT and the other one is RA9T. I have boxes of each, and I think I also have some of the more current T-Series/RA9T, as well. (Although no picture)
Caliber Corner

Aside from dropping the black Lubalox coating, they've also made some revisions over the years. Some can be seen when you look carefully inside the nose cavity, comparing the jacket petal cuts/shape.
Caliber Corner

Hotpig's a better resource for the info, as I don't try to keep up from one revision, refinement or tweak to the next. I mostly take it from the boxes and just use it.
Excellent photos!
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Old 03-22-2013, 16:51   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
Sounds like an older version.

Does the case-head stamp have a year date? Some do, some don't.
Nope just "9mm LUGER" with "WIN" above it. It does look like the middle round though. Mine is 147 standard pressure.

Good info though thanks!
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Old 03-22-2013, 18:01   #6
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Be advised, they stopped making the black coated Rangers in the 1990's. I still carry the balck 147's in my G17 but I carry the newer T Series in my LC9 as it is designed to expand better at lower velocities.
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Old 03-22-2013, 18:14   #7
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Be advised, they stopped making the black coated Rangers in the 1990's. I still carry the balck 147's in my G17 but I carry the newer T Series in my LC9 as it is designed to expand better at lower velocities.
If I recall what the rep told us back toward the end of the 90's, it was the revision which dropped the SXT from the Symbol Code (ie RA9T instead of RA9SXT), which benefited from the lowering of the expansion/velocity window. He said this was done due to the increasing presence of the shorter barreled guns among LE users.
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Old 03-22-2013, 18:45   #8
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If I recall what the rep told us back toward the end of the 90's, it was the revision which dropped the SXT from the Symbol Code (ie RA9T instead of RA9SXT), which benefited from the lowering of the expansion/velocity window. He said this was done due to the increasing presence of the shorter barreled guns among LE users.
Yeah, you're more knowledgable on this stuff than I am. My black coated stuff was our old duty ammo. We switched to the 165 grain black Rangers when we went to 40, and then they turned brass colored and with a nickle case. The newer stuff I have I bought from the local police equipment shop recently so The changes in 9mm didn't happen in front of my eyes. I have old stuff and new stuff, but none of the stuff in between that may have had subtle changes.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:58   #9
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I didn't get interested in the older BT after seeing it's performance in some early fed testing.

It wasn't until a fed agency that sometimes used our range was using their 127gr +P+ RA9SXTP that we started to look at it.

I carried the RA9SXTP until the SXT/RA9TA came along, and then later on I carried an issued .40 with the SXT/RA40TA (165gr).

Since that time I've carried RA40T 180gr (in both the SXT & T-Series versions), as well as the different RA9T versions, and the RA45SXT, RA45SXTP, RA45T & RA45T, depending on what was available whenever we were ordering duty ammo.

Production & supply being what it is from time to time, though, I've also carried issued the Remington HPJ/Golden Sabre (non-bonded) in all 3 of our duty calibers.

If ATK's Speer GDHP or Federal's HST or TB loads were more popular/available in my area of the state, I'd have been carrying those as issued loads, too ... so it's not like I have any particular "favorite" when it comes to any of the more modern, quality hollowpoints.
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Old 03-23-2013, 16:57   #10
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I have a box of 25 SXT 45ACP 230g with the box marked S45.
The case head is just stamped W-W 45 Auto with a red sealant around the primer.The cases are nickel plated and the bullets are the copper colored not black.

I thought the SXT line was just the Black Talon line with the tips of the petals on the bullet rounded instead of coming to a sharp point.

The best thing about this box is the price for those 25 rounds..........$12.99 !!!
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Old 03-23-2013, 17:13   #11
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I have a box of 25 SXT 45ACP 230g with the box marked S45.
The case head is just stamped W-W 45 Auto with a red sealant around the primer.The cases are nickel plated and the bullets are the copper colored not black.

I thought the SXT line was just the Black Talon line with the tips of the petals on the bullet rounded instead of coming to a sharp point.

The best thing about this box is the price for those 25 rounds..........$12.99 !!!
The original commercial Black Talon had "SXT" on the packaging which was an acronym for "supreme expansion talon" (I think). When Black Talon was pulled from commercial sales, they changed the meaning of SXT to supreme expansion TECHNOLOGY. The talons are gone, and you basically have a "regular" JHP with some spiffy marketing. I have a box of the non-BT SXT in 147 9mm and it has a nickel case and copper colored bullet with eight serrations on the tip. That is probably what you have, the SXT replacement for the original SXT Black Talon.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:45   #12
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The Black Talon rounds got too much false press stories early on. They look so evil.
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Old 03-25-2013, 20:17   #13
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Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't the RA9SXT rounds considered collectors item's?

I know I have two boxes of that stuff around here somewhere.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:28   #14
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The original commercial Black Talon had "SXT" on the packaging which was an acronym for "supreme expansion talon" (I think). When Black Talon was pulled from commercial sales, they changed the meaning of SXT to supreme expansion TECHNOLOGY. The talons are gone, and you basically have a "regular" JHP with some spiffy marketing. I have a box of the non-BT SXT in 147 9mm and it has a nickel case and copper colored bullet with eight serrations on the tip. That is probably what you have, the SXT replacement for the original SXT Black Talon.
The liberal point of view is:

Why make such awful bullets against a poor and destitute man just looking for his next meal?
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Old 03-26-2013, 23:07   #15
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The liberal point of view is:

Why make such awful bullets against a poor and destitute man just looking for his next meal?
That's right. for it is not his fault that he refuses to work and pay his taxes, It's society fault.

What's really sad, is that they actually believe this crap.

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Old 03-27-2013, 03:38   #16
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Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't the RA9SXT rounds considered collectors item's?

I know I have two boxes of that stuff around here somewhere.
More or less, yes. They bring around $50 per box of so on Gunbroker.

I still have two boxes of .40 in my ammo locker.
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Old 03-27-2013, 16:56   #17
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N.y.p.d.

I have like like 500rds., of the original order loaded for the N.Y.P.D., before they got "cold feet" over "talons."

Can't ever remember what generation they are. "Hot Pig" knows, but I forgot what he told me!

Any ideas?
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:52   #18
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That's right. for it is not his fault that he refuses to work and pay his taxes, It's society fault.

What's really sad, is that they actually believe this crap.
And they voted for the Kenyan BHO twice!
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Old 03-30-2013, 16:18   #19
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Quote:
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I have like like 500rds., of the original order loaded for the N.Y.P.D., before they got "cold feet" over "talons."

Can't ever remember what generation they are. "Hot Pig" knows, but I forgot what he told me!

Any ideas?
They are the SXT without the lublux.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:33   #20
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Does it really matter? A bullet with any coloring is still bad news.

Pastels may sooth the hippies.
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Old 04-01-2013, 23:08   #21
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I have like like 500rds., of the original order loaded for the N.Y.P.D., before they got "cold feet" over "talons."

Can't ever remember what generation they are. "Hot Pig" knows, but I forgot what he told me!

Any ideas?
The nickeled case from '95 (with the blue primer pocket sealant) in my above image is from that NYPD production run, as I recall. I think I only have a few hundred rounds of it left (because it got buried in a plastic bin on the bottom of an ammo box).
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:59   #22
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Here is some in .44 mag:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104372280


Don't look at the price, lol..
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:56   #23
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Here is some in .44 mag:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104372280


Don't look at the price, lol..
In .44 Magnum?! How very evil! And the price is even more evil!!!
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Old 04-02-2013, 16:41   #24
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In .44 Magnum?! How very evil!
LOL...

I don't know what's more evil, the .44 magnum Black Talons or the price.
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Old 04-02-2013, 17:29   #25
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Thanks

Thanks guys, for help with my N.Y.P.D. ammunition. IIRC, I got them for $12 per fifty.

I've stated this before, but it's worth mentioning again. The original Black Talons usually didn't work as claimed.

The late Joe Zambone inventor of MagSafe ammunition, was a test-o-holic of about every bullet both conventional, and non-conventional back in the day.

He never shot bare gel. It was always interesting what he place in front of it. Might be just a t-shirt. Might be a winter coat. Might be a big slab of brisket. Sometimes, it was just a couple of credit cards. And a couple of them, would indeed defeat the hollowpoints of the late 80's/early 90's.

I recall the B/T's were pretty miserable. The 147gr. 9mm's would bore through 24-inches of gel, and then whistle off into the timber. Several of the .45's were recovered. They didn't work. I wish I could find the two tapes he sent me. Very
eye-opening. On one .45 Talon test, he digs the slug out of the gel, while the bullet is still hot. As he noted: The bullet could have been reloaded!

Back then, he carried a Glock 19 a lot, and he thought hands-down, the Cor Bon +P 115gr. 9mm, was the best of the conventional ammunition.

Anywho thinking back on controversy:
------------------------------------
Tuesday, December 27, 1994 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

E-mail article Print

Flesh-Ripping Bullets Use Plastics To Avoid Ban On `Cop Killers'
By Robert Dvorchak

AP

Two new super-destructive handgun bullets - one designed to do maximum damage to human tissue, a second that can penetrate body armor - are about to go on sale, despite the objections of police and gun-control advocates.

The inventor, a research chemist making his first venture in ammunition, defends Rhino-Ammo, the flesh-ripping bullet, as "a strictly defensive round" for citizens protecting themselves against attackers and intruders.

"The beauty behind it is that it makes an incredible wound," says David Keen, chief executive of Signature Products Corp. in Huntsville, Ala. "That makes the target stop and worry about survival instead of robbing or murdering you."

Police worry that criminals will use the armor-piercing rounds, which make officers' bulletproof vests worthless.

"Once they're on the market, they're out. They can get into the wrong hands," says Beth McGee of the National Association of Police Organizations.

"What if an antitank round falls into the wrong hands?" Keen retorts. "I cannot promise anyone this round won't fall into the wrong hands. I can assure you we will sell only to the right people."

The packaging for Rhino-Ammo claims the bullet breaks into thousands of razor-like fragments when it strikes human flesh:

"Each of these fragments becomes lethal shrapnel and is hurled into vital organs, lungs, circulatory-system components, the heart and other tissues. The wound channel is catastrophic. . . . Death is nearly instantaneous."

Rep. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said today he would introduce legislation banning any bullet that can penetrate bullet-proof vests.

The Black Rhino version has a convex point designed to penetrate bullet-stopping material such as Kevlar. Once it reaches soft flesh, Keen says, it is as destructive as Rhino-Ammo. According to its package, "Nothing stops a charging Rhino!"

FIRM NEEDED NEW MARKETS

Signature Products originally made coatings for radar-evading stealth aircraft. But when the Cold War ended and defense contracts dropped off, Keen needed new markets for his technology.

"When (Rhino-Ammo) hits somebody, they're going to die," Keen says. "It causes a horrific wound. That's not by accident. It's engineered by design. The round disintegrates as it hits. There's no way to stop the bleeding.

"I don't care where it hits. They're going down for good."

Keen says Black Rhino bullets will be sold only to police and federally licensed firearms dealers. But there are approximately a quarter million such dealers in the nation, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

"It's non-sporting ammo. The concern is that it's basically increasing firepower that's out there," says Bob Walker, a lobbyist for Handgun Control Inc., the group formed by Sarah Brady, wife of former White House press secretary James Brady, who was disabled by a bullet meant for President Reagan in 1981.

In 1986, Congress banned the manufacture of "cop-killer" bullets that were Teflon-coated or made of certain metal alloys. This year's crime bill broadened the ban to include other metal-alloy bullets.

"Cop killers" are any bullets that can penetrate a bulletproof vest, like the Black Rhino can. But because Rhino rounds are made of carbon-based plastics called polymers, rather than metal, they sidestep the ban.

"NOTHING ILLEGAL"

"There's nothing illegal under federal law" about Rhino bullets, confirms Jack Killorin, spokesman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

New types of ammunition come onto the market all the time.

One especially destructive bullet was yanked off the open market voluntarily after public uproar. Black Talon bullets, which peel back upon impact and create gaping wounds, prompted several congressmen to propose stiff taxes on them to offset the costs of treating such wounds.

Black Talons, made by the Winchester division of Olin Corp., are now legally available only to police, but knockoffs are readily available, forensic experts say. And they still figure in crimes: Black Talons killed six commuters and wounded 19 on a Long Island Rail Road train last year.

Black Talons belong to a category of metal bullets, commonly called hollow points, that fragment or flatten on impact. As deadly as hollow points can be, they pale in comparison to Rhino-Ammo: A typical hollow point loses about 10 percent of its mass to fragmentation upon impact, while 90 percent of a Rhino-Ammo bullet breaks into pieces.

That means Rhino-Ammo makes a bigger hole. Rhino rounds test-fired into gelatin molds produced holes the size of baseballs, Keen says.

Rhino-Ammo will sell for $4 per round, or about seven times as much as traditional bullets, and come with a money-back guarantee, Keen says.

"The mentality on the street is that if something costs more, it's better. Every kook in the world is going to go out and buy it," says George Kass of Forensics Ammunition Service, a consultant to local, state and federal police agencies.

Keen says he supports gun control and favors the federal ban on assault weapons but he's not concerned over criticism of his Rhino products.

"I think we should only have guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. And the only reason people should have guns is to defend themselves until they can summon law enforcement," Keen says.

"I sleep real well at night. You break into my house, you're dead."

Copyright (c) 1994 Seattle Times Company, All Rights Reserved.
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