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Old 03-17-2013, 14:32   #1
Doughnutman_923
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Experienced GLocker, Interesting Issue with Trigger Control

I may only be 20 years old but I have fired thousands of rounds through Glocks chambered in 9mm, .40 S&W, and 10mm without any problems ever since I got my G22 at 16 Years old.... until I got my beloved G21. (I have boxes and boxes of empty ammo in my closet to prove it...for an unknown reason) I have always been surprised by how accurate I can be with my G23 and G22 out to 25 yards.

With my G21 I have also experienced this infallible accuracy, until I decided to test out my trigger control with a paper plate at about 20 feet.


I can hit a soda can thrown down the hill and across the river (around 75 feet) dead on every single time, I can hit a floating shotgun shell moving swiftly down the river, but when I drew circles on a paper plate and tried to hit them at 20 feet I was about 4'' down and 3'' left of the silver dollar sized target...(Which I understand is a common problem with new shooters) every single time, not even when I fired the pistol resting on a table. Ammo was Federal Bulk 230gr and Hornady XTP Custom 200gr.

I have Glock Night Sights (Much thanks to the gentlemen who sent them to me!) with a little - above the line on the rear sight, so I assume it is the correct height.

Just wondering if anyone has any advice. I tried adjusting my grip and placing my trigger finger on the trigger different ways. Just can't seem to get that close accuracy down. When I dry-fire, I put a dime on the front sight, and it hardly ever moves or falls off. Guess I'm just better at long shots?

Any advice is appreciated, even if it's a stern "You suck!" or "Stop limpwristing it!". lol
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Old 03-17-2013, 14:44   #2
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I gleaned alot of info from this I am a new shooter and have the infamous low left problem. even though you're not new maybe you can get something out of it.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1476828

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Old 03-17-2013, 17:11   #3
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Assuming you weren't speeding up your trigger pull at 20 ft (you didn't mention that), could it be you that were focussing on the circles rather than on the front sight? Looking for the bullet holes (thus also focussing on the target rather than on the front sight)?
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Old 03-17-2013, 19:13   #4
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Just to let you know, the night sights are 6.9 mm which is what comes on the G21 from the factory.
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Old 03-17-2013, 19:27   #5
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Get some dummy rounds and read this--> (click) http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/blog.php?b=4

Do what it says with the dummy rounds and you'll see where the problem is.
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Old 03-18-2013, 18:01   #6
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FWIW. Shooting Glock about 2 years. Had the down and left problem till last week. Right hand dominant, tried all kinds of different holds and trigger technique with no help.

Watched a UTube video last week where the shooter stressed what you do with your non dominant hand. Tried placing my left differently and the bullets started flying straight instead of making left dives.

Maybe this will help, maybe it will just rule out one possible problem. Good Luck. It feels Soooo good when the bullets start going strait!
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Old 03-18-2013, 18:27   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul53 View Post
FWIW. Shooting Glock about 2 years. Had the down and left problem till last week. Right hand dominant, tried all kinds of different holds and trigger technique with no help.

Watched a UTube video last week where the shooter stressed what you do with your non dominant hand. Tried placing my left differently and the bullets started flying straight instead of making left dives.

Maybe this will help, maybe it will just rule out one possible problem. Good Luck. It feels Soooo good when the bullets start going strait!
Can you post a link to that video or remember the title?
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Old 03-18-2013, 19:49   #8
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Guys, if you can dry fire the gun without pulling the sights off your target, all you have to do is do the same thing with ammo in the gun.....right?

Even if you can stand on your head and shoot the gun with your left foot, as long as the sights are aligned on the target and you squeeze/press/pull the trigger without moving the sights off the target, the shot will be good.

The hard part is getting the trigger to fire the gun without moving the gun. You can have the sights aligned on the target perfectly all day, but if you don't pull the trigger correctly (like you do when you dry fire), you miss.

Get some dummy rounds and do as I describe in my blog, they will let you see how you are pulling the trigger....something that you can't see when firing live ammo due to recoil and muzzle blast.
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Old 03-18-2013, 20:16   #9
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Believe it or not:
a. You are a new shooter. I've shot "thousands of rounds through Glocks" in under a week, when you've shot tens of thousands or hundreds of throusands abd spent lots of time in formal training, competition, etc., then start considering yourself experienced..

B. Practice does not make perfect - only perfect practice makes perfect. There are people I have shot and trained with who have been regular, enthusiastic shooters for 30 years or more...but they never learned the fundamentals really well, so they will never be able to shoot.

You need to work on grip and trigger control, correctly.
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Old 03-18-2013, 20:29   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch View Post
...Even if you can stand on your head and shoot the gun with your left foot, as long as the sights are aligned on the target and you squeeze/press/pull the trigger without moving the sights off the target, the shot will be good...

I call it my Daniel Day Lewis shot.
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Old 03-18-2013, 22:18   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch View Post
Guys, if you can dry fire the gun without pulling the sights off your target, all you have to do is do the same thing with ammo in the gun.....right?

Even if you can stand on your head and shoot the gun with your left foot, as long as the sights are aligned on the target and you squeeze/press/pull the trigger without moving the sights off the target, the shot will be good.

The hard part is getting the trigger to fire the gun without moving the gun. You can have the sights aligned on the target perfectly all day, but if you don't pull the trigger correctly (like you do when you dry fire), you miss.

Get some dummy rounds and do as I describe in my blog, they will let you see how you are pulling the trigger....something that you can't see when firing live ammo due to recoil and muzzle blast.
I have dry fired so much it's not funny. lol But I'm sure I have a self remedy for this problem! (practice more and focus on my fundamentals of marksmanship)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Believe it or not:
a. You are a new shooter. I've shot "thousands of rounds through Glocks" in under a week, when you've shot tens of thousands or hundreds of throusands abd spent lots of time in formal training, competition, etc., then start considering yourself experienced..

B. Practice does not make perfect - only perfect practice makes perfect. There are people I have shot and trained with who have been regular, enthusiastic shooters for 30 years or more...but they never learned the fundamentals really well, so they will never be able to shoot.

You need to work on grip and trigger control, correctly.
I understand exactly what you're saying, and after a minute of thought I realize I am quite the amateur considering how much time I don't spend shooting, I just need to get used to the Glock platform in a new caliber is all it boils down to!
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Old 03-18-2013, 22:28   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughnutman_923 View Post
I have dry fired so much it's not funny. lol But I'm sure I have a self remedy for this problem! (practice more and focus on my fundamentals of marksmanship)
I'm not suggesting more dry fire.....
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Old 03-18-2013, 23:04   #13
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In the OP, you mention experience with 10mm. Were you shooting a 20 or 29?

If the 21 is your first full size large frame Glock, there is a decent chance your fingers are placed just differently enough to induce some type of mechanical force transmission changes. If you were dead on with a 20, though, this observation becomes less relevant.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:05   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughnutman_923 View Post
....... With my G21 I have also experienced this infallible accuracy, until I decided to test out my trigger control with a paper plate at about 20 feet.

I can hit a soda can thrown down the hill and across the river (around 75 feet) dead on every single time, I can hit a floating shotgun shell moving swiftly down the river, but when I drew circles on a paper plate and tried to hit them at 20 feet I was about 4'' down and 3'' left of the silver dollar sized target .......
Well, ....... these ARE the comments of a promising, but, grossly undisciplined shooter. (No offense, OK!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughnutman_923 View Post
I have Glock Night Sights (Much thanks to the gentlemen who sent them to me!) with a little - above the line on the rear sight, so I assume it is the correct height.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here? Maybe something about your sight picture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughnutman_923 View Post
Just wondering if anyone has any advice. I tried adjusting my grip and placing my trigger finger on the trigger different ways. Just can't seem to get that close accuracy down. When I dry-fire, I put a dime on the front sight, and it hardly ever moves or falls off. Guess I'm just better at long shots?

Any advice is appreciated, even if it's a stern "You suck!" or "Stop limpwristing it!"
I'm tempted to say it; but I won't!

Plain and simple: You're jerking the trigger. Exactly 'Why'? remains uncertain. The most likely cause is that you're losing your, 'target focus'. Instead of aiming at the target in the same way you do on those, 'shotgun shells in the water', you're expanding your vision to aim at the whole plate rather than that one small spot on the plate you actually want to hit. Perhaps the proximity of the plate is, also, throwing you off? You're definitely overconfident, and definitely jerking the trigger back too quickly. I suggest you return to the fundamentals of good marksmanship, and begin carefully watching your front sight AND the target, again.

I've been shooting for a lot longer than you. (I'm no longer able to imagine what it must be like to be 20 years old, again, and have my first pistol!) At 7 yards I'll often not even look at the sights. (What for?) After awhile it all becomes just, 'point 'n shoot', anyway. You, however, haven't been shooting for long enough to have your concepts of, 'spatial relationships and targets' fixed firmly in your head.

Take my advice and return to the fundamentals of all good marksmanship. When you get your mental discipline back, you'll be fine. Right now you ain't anyplace the rest of us, also, haven't been at one time or another. After the heart attack I - to my absolute amazement - had to reeducate myself in, both, how to drive a car as well as precisely use a pistol.

Skill with a firearm is a, 'depreciating physical asset'. You either use it, and keep up; or it will gradually be taken away from you. As you go through life, changes in your physical health - the ways in which your mind relates to your body - will, also, affect your personal ability to hit the target. MANY TIMES, I've seen this, 'aiming phenomenon' occur in others - Mostly older men. (So now, I suppose, I'm getting my turn!) Happily, and with practice, it is curable to a certain extent!

(Nobody ever said it was going to be easy - Right! Go back to the fundamentals.)
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