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Old 03-13-2013, 14:36   #1
Goodrich
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G19 is shooting low Left

Took the 19 and 27 out today shot from about 6-7 yards the 19 was shooting low left the 27 was dead on. any idea's why ? i'm right handed, right eye dominate, was in isosceles. for both guns. 19 is stock except extended controls. Blue is point of Aim

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Second one is the 27.
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Old 03-13-2013, 14:42   #2
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Are you an experienced shooter? Because if not you could be torquing your pinky when you shoot the G19 your shots will always go low and left.
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Old 03-13-2013, 14:45   #3
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I am a new shooter.
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Old 03-13-2013, 14:49   #4
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It's YOU, not the gun.....Keep practicing.
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Old 03-13-2013, 14:52   #5
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Quote:
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It's YOU, not the gun.....Keep practicing.
I have no doubt it's me. just trying to get a general idea of what i'm doing wrong. love the 27 btw the snap is not nearly as bad as everyone describes it's actually enjoyable.
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Old 03-13-2013, 14:54   #6
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I hope this doesn't come of dickish


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Old 03-13-2013, 14:57   #7
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I hope this doesn't come of dickish


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Sorry last post got interrupted but if the blue dot was your point of aim and you were hitting at the white circle 6 yards out you need trigger time and lots of it. Do a quick web search on glock low and left and you will find a wealth of information. Good luck and happy shooting we all start somewhere.


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Old 03-13-2013, 14:57   #8
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I am a new shooter.
Jerking the trigger and tightening your whole hand while you pull/jerk the trigger is bad and is common with newer shooters. Grab the frame tightly with your middle and ring finger, the pinky should not have a deathgrip. Slowly pull the trigger to the rear in a smooth motion.

You can do dry-fire training at home (obviously unloaded pistol, be safe). When the trigger breaks your sights will lurch in a certain direction. When you can dry fire and maintain the sight picture steady and solid as a rock you are ready to go back to the range. Every 10 shots or so at the range you will notice you are doing it again lol, anticipating recoil... be safe and enjoy your new hobby.


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Old 03-13-2013, 15:00   #9
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Thanks for the chart I thought I was squeezing the trigger slower but honestly I wasn't even thinking about trigger pull i was more concentrated on aim. perhaps i was jerking it instead of a slow squeeze i'll have to be concious of it next time and see if it still happens.
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Old 03-13-2013, 17:13   #11
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Some great vids for viewing. Thanks for posting
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Old 03-13-2013, 18:10   #12
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Quote:
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Thanks for the chart I thought I was squeezing the trigger slower but honestly I wasn't even thinking about trigger pull i was more concentrated on aim. perhaps i was jerking it instead of a slow squeeze i'll have to be concious of it next time and see if it still happens.
I don't know your normal groups or anything, but the 19 group looks consistent with the 27 group. Have you had a more experienced shooter give it a try, or have you shot off a rest? I am inclined to say to check your sights, because your 19 group is about the same as your 27 group, just shifted way off from POA.

Also, dry fire every chance you get! Seriously, it's the best money you'll never spend. Dry fire practice is possibly the single most important thing a newer shooter can do to advance his/her skills. You'd be able to quickly get those groups in the orange with just a few minutes of practice each day.
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Old 03-13-2013, 19:28   #13
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Nah i haven't had anyone else shoot it just me and I took my mother out to let her try the 19 so she could decide weather or not she wanted a 26. no bench rest either this is only my second time shooting both of them put 50 rounds though each this time and it was on a piece of property up in the sticks we own. Windy, snowing and not on the most even ground. which i'm not using as an excuse for my poor shooting haha. the 27 has some truglo tritium bright sights I installed myself and the 19 has the stock field goal sights, doubt that would have anything to do with it though. I just need more range time.
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Old 03-13-2013, 19:32   #14
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Nah i haven't had anyone else shoot it just me and I took my mother out to let her try the 19 so she could decide weather or not she wanted a 26. no bench rest either this is only my second time shooting both of them put 50 rounds though each this time and it was on a piece of property up in the sticks we own. Windy, snowing and not on the most even ground. which i'm not using as an excuse for my poor shooting haha. the 27 has some truglo tritium bright sights I installed myself and the 19 has the stock field goal sights, doubt that would have anything to do with it though. I just need more range time.
We all need more range time.
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Old 03-13-2013, 19:34   #15
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We all need more range time.
haha i'm pretty happy with the group spacing now if i can just put them in the center.
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Old 03-13-2013, 19:44   #16
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You are anticipating the recoil. The short grip shows it less. It is subconcious.

The cure is a surprise break. Pull the trigger so slow that you don't know when it will fire. Take 30 seconds to slowly and steadily pull the trigger straight back toward the rear sight while keeping the sights on target.

If you don't know when the gun will fire, your brain won't know when to flinch, thus your hands won't be suddenly moving in anticipation of the recoil at that split second before the BOOM.

Later you can speed the trigger up after you've learned the basics.

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Old 03-13-2013, 19:52   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodrich View Post
haha i'm pretty happy with the group spacing now if i can just put them in the center.
Click--> http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/blog.php?u=135&page=2 and read at least the two articles about using the reset and trigger control.

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Old 03-13-2013, 20:45   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
You are anticipating the recoil. The short grip shows it less. It is subconcious.

The cure is a surprise break. Pull the trigger so slow that you don't know when it will fire. Take 30 seconds to slowly and steadily pull the trigger straight back toward the rear sight while keeping the sights on target.

If you don't know when the gun will fire, your brain won't know when to flinch, thus your hands won't be suddenly moving in anticipation of the recoil at that split second before the BOOM.

Later you can speed the trigger up after you've learned the basics.
That's a very savvy reply! I suggest you think about it. Butch's blog article on trigger control is a, 'must read' too.

It will, quite possibly, save you a lot of ammunition if you get yourself out of a conventional Isosceles Stance, and switch to a, 'Reverse Chapman' stance, instead. 'Why'? Because a lot of your problem is being caused by excess tension along the tendons of your upper (gun hand) forearm.

This excess tension is working against you, and actually exaggerating your tendency to, 'jerk' the trigger as the sear breaks. When you do this put a little more downward bend in your strong wrist, too - Try this for awhile and I'm sure that you'll see what I mean.

Last edited by Arc Angel; 03-13-2013 at 20:47..
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Old 03-13-2013, 21:34   #19
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Thanks for the chart, Benji and the videos, 4Rules. They'll be a great help for me teaching my wife correctly how to improve her (and my) shooting.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:00   #20
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Thank you for all the information guys i'll definitely study up and try to implement all of the info and tips.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:46   #21
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You'll get the hang of it in no time. Do a lot of dry fire practice and make sure your sights aren't moving at all.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:29   #22
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i have always had an issue shooting low and to the left until recently. i shoot fairly often, and i have narrowed it down to 100% anticipation. What was said about dry firing with some snap caps helps ALOT (or atleast it did for me). For me, there is something in my brain that is not allowing me to NOT anticipate the recoil. This will improve with more trigger time im sure.

What i have found to help tremendously is load up 2 mags (or 1) at the range and randomly mix some snap caps in the mags with the live ammo. If you have a shooting buddy, have them load it, if not, then just don't pay attention to the order. This way when your firing that mag, every time you get to a snap cap, you can see how bad you are pulling or dipping the gun. It has see to work fairly well for me...

Here is my last range visit, still anticipating the shot a little but getting much better from what i was... 7 yards, 50 rounds, G19 gen 3 NIBx... keep in mind, this is like an 8in target i believe...

General Glocking

Keep practicing man, you will get alot better

Last edited by Tscglock; 03-14-2013 at 07:31..
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:43   #23
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Try aiming higher and more to the right.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:44   #24
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This is fantastic advice. It is all about anticipation. You'll notice when you hit the snapcap that you will jerk the pistol as if there was recoil, even though nothing happened.

Your two photos are more consistent than you think. If you look at both, the overwhelming majority of hits are to the left of the center line. Like you I'm right handed, right eye dominant and my targets look much like yours if I'm not paying attention. Do the snapcaps interlaced into a normal mag drill and you will see improvement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscglock View Post
i have always had an issue shooting low and to the left until recently. i shoot fairly often, and i have narrowed it down to 100% anticipation. What was said about dry firing with some snap caps helps ALOT (or atleast it did for me). For me, there is something in my brain that is not allowing me to NOT anticipate the recoil. This will improve with more trigger time im sure.

What i have found to help tremendously is load up 2 mags (or 1) at the range and randomly mix some snap caps in the mags with the live ammo. If you have a shooting buddy, have them load it, if not, then just don't pay attention to the order. This way when your firing that mag, every time you get to a snap cap, you can see how bad you are pulling or dipping the gun. It has see to work fairly well for me...

Here is my last range visit, still anticipating the shot a little but getting much better from what i was... 7 yards, 50 rounds, G19 gen 3 NIBx... keep in mind, this is like an 8in target i believe...

General Glocking

Keep practicing man, you will get alot better
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:20   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditto1958 View Post
Try aiming higher and more to the right.
I’m sure you know better - Right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscglock View Post
I have always had an issue shooting low and to the left until recently. I shoot fairly often, and I have narrowed it down to 100% anticipation. What was said about dry firing with some snap caps helps ALOT (or at least it did for me). For me, there is something in my brain that is not allowing me to NOT anticipate the recoil. This will improve with more trigger time I’m sure.

What I have found to help tremendously is load up 2 mags (or 1) at the range and randomly mix some snap caps in the mags with the live ammo. If you have a shooting buddy, have them load it, if not, then just don't pay attention to the order. This way when your firing that mag, every time you get to a snap cap, you can see how bad you are pulling or dipping the gun. It has see to work fairly well for me...

Here is my last range visit, still anticipating the shot a little but getting much better from what I was... 7 yards, 50 rounds, G19 gen 3 NIBx ... keep in mind, this is like an 8in target I believe ...

General Glocking

Keep practicing man, you will get a lot better
It’s not really, ‘anticipation’. (The term is too broad!)

There are two different types of - for lack of better words - what I will call, ‘HYSTERICAL TRIGGER FLINCH’: Pre:ignition, and Post:ignition. Neither is the same thing as what I’m going to describe as, ‘AUTONOMIC AIMING REFLEX’.

Hysterical, pre:ignition flinch occurs at the same time as the trigger is pulled and BEFORE the primer ignites. It usually happens when the fingers of the gun-hand are progressively tightened, thereby, causing the trigger to, ‘jerk’. When this happens the muzzle tends to drop while it is pulled toward the weakest part of the enclosing hand. (Toward your body’s vertical centerline.)

Hysterical, post:ignition flinch occurs as the sear breaks and AFTER the primer has ignited. The most noticeable difference between, ‘pre’, and, ‘post’ ignition flinching is one of degree (or, extent). Pre:ignition flinching cause more deviation from the original point-of-aim than post:ignition flinching does. Hence the term, ‘trigger jerk’ is often used. Low left POI’s are a very common.

It’s taken me most of my lifetime in the shooting sports to realize that: ‘Not all flinching is flinching.’ Something else is, also, taking place. ALL flinching is NOT actually an undesirable learned response to, what is so often called, ‘negative stimulii’. Instead, ‘hysterical flinching’ is actually a necessary - BUT, IMPROPERLY TIMED - autonomic reflex action to a handgun going off. (You don’t know, ‘What’ I mean - Huh!) Have you ever watched someone fire a pistol really fast? You don’t see any flinching; do you! I will assure you, however, that some form of flinching is definitely taking place. (If it weren’t the handgun would end up pointing straight up in the air!)

How did I discover this? One afternoon I was firing a pistol very very fast and dumping one clip after another into the targets. Suddenly a round failed to go off; and guess what I saw my hands do? When the striker release my body instinctively initiated a perfect, front sight, ‘pull down’. For all the world it looked just like I had (hysterically) flinched - EXCEPT all of my shots had riddled the center of the target in the same way that they usually do.

I hadn’t flinched hysterically! Instead I had subconsciously and autonomically, ‘pulled the front sight down’ in order to reflexively recapture my front sight picture. While the pistol was actually going off nobody watching me would have seen anything out of the ordinary except for the pistol going off. That, ‘flinch’ was only observable during the middle of a shot string IF a cartridge primer didn’t ignite.

CONSEQUENTLY, IF YOUR AUTONOMIC TIMING AND BODY REFLEXES ARE PROPERLY SYNCHRONIZED THEN THERE IS NO, ‘HYSTERICAL FLINCH’. IF, HOWEVER, YOUR BODY’S AUTONOMIC TIMING AND REFLEXES ARE NOT PROPERLY COORDINATED THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THAT, ‘HYSTERICAL FLINCH’ WILL APPEAR.

All of which tells you, ‘What’ the physical problem(s) you’re dealing with is; but, not how to correct it. For correction of, ‘flinching’ problems I’m going to refer interested pistol shooters to the, ‘Flinching Inoculation Drills’ popularized by, George Harris. Mr. Harris is a Firearms Instructor whose thoughts and opinions on the subject of, 'flinching', while not identical, are compatible with my own.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm...k-the-trigger/

Last edited by Arc Angel; 03-27-2013 at 10:04..
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