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Old 03-07-2013, 07:05   #51
ilgunguygt
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Its amazing how the same people who claim that its stupid to compare the second amendment to nuclear bombs and tanks will jump up and proclaim that gay marriage will translate into pedophilia and bestiality. Stupid bigots. You wonder why the republican party cant win a presidential election? Its you.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:14   #52
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I can agree with some of the "liberal" positions, but am curious at the remarks that indicate Republicans should "become liberals" if they want to win elections.

That position is certainly understandable as our nation has gone past the tipping point and I can't see any conservative of any stripe being elected President. But I don't see the point of Republicans suddenly becoming liberals. If conventional wisdom is that Republicans need to become liberals to have a chance of being elected, then why not simply vote Democrat and avoid all the moaning and groaning about what Republicans need to do??
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:32   #53
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I can agree with some of the "liberal" positions, but am curious at the remarks that indicate Republicans should "become liberals" if they want to win elections.

That position is certainly understandable as our nation has gone past the tipping point and I can't see any conservative of any stripe being elected President. But I don't see the point of Republicans suddenly becoming liberals. If conventional wisdom is that Republicans need to become liberals to have a chance of being elected, then why not simply vote Democrat and avoid all the moaning and groaning about what Republicans need to do??
Why do you have to "become liberal" to see that its wrong to persecute gays? This IS a free country you know.

Again, its an all or nothing with people in the Republican party. "well, if I have to accept something like that I may as well vote democrat!"

That sounds a lot like "If we allow AR15s we may as well allow nuclear weapons!"


If the only thing that makes you vote republican is your opposition to gay rights, you have some serious issues in yourself. Fiscal conservatism doesnt matter if gays have a right to marriage? Gun control doesnt matter if gays have a right to marriage? Come on, get real.

50 years from now, whether the bigots like it or not, the gay marriage thing will be regarded in the same light as the Jim Crow laws are now.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:45   #54
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None.

Marriage is not a federal issue.

The fed has no authority to regulate narcotics except for the importation of them.

Social security and Medicare are socialism/welfare.



These are conservative principles. The problem is the ranks of conservatives are polluted with neocons and fascists so most people don't recognize them as such.


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Old 03-07-2013, 07:48   #55
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Not really seeing any liberal causes I agree with.

Sorry.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:53   #56
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gay rights. they're people just like the rest of us. quit using your old book and morals to make them feel like 2nd class citizens.

the separation of church and state. does this really need to be explained?
We should always err on the side of liberty. If people believe gay marriage will be a significant detriment to society the burden of proof is on them. They need to produce hard evidence of this hypothesis.
It's the same thing with gun control - banning assault weapons will reduce crime and prevent mass murders? Based on what evidence, you're intuition and fear of guns?
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:57   #57
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Why do you have to "become liberal" to see that its wrong to persecute gays? This IS a free country you know.

Again, its an all or nothing with people in the Republican party. "well, if I have to accept something like that I may as well vote democrat!"

That sounds a lot like "If we allow AR15s we may as well allow nuclear weapons!"


If the only thing that makes you vote republican is your opposition to gay rights, you have some serious issues in yourself. Fiscal conservatism doesnt matter if gays have a right to marriage? Gun control doesnt matter if gays have a right to marriage? Come on, get real.

50 years from now, whether the bigots like it or not, the gay marriage thing will be regarded in the same light as the Jim Crow laws are now.
I'm not opposed to gay rights and I've never persecuted a gay person in my life.

I'm hearing the talk about appealing to women, appealing to "young", appealing to hispanics, appealing to blacks, appealing to illegal immigrants, appealing to left handed Methodist numismatists, etc. What possible changes can Republicans make that would make them more appealing to all of these groups than the original Democrat Party?
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:14   #58
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Funny you don't address transgender Marines, don't tell me you're against transgender Marines, RACIST!

Are you in favor of some boy being sent to the bathroom with your six year old daughter because his freaking progressive parents have decided that he's transgender?

You haven't followed any of the arguments coming from the left about children having consensual sex with an adult, are you anti-pedophile? Like I said, slippery slope.
Transgender marines.. Sure if they can meet all the standards of a normal marine. The transgender child I honestly don't know and leave that up to the school board and state no need for federal government to get involved.

I don't follow arguments of people comparing homosexuality and gay rights to pedophiles and bestiality. The same way I don't acknowledge people who ask me if I want to be able to defend myself with a gun why not a nuke next..

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:16   #59
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I'm not opposed to gay rights and I've never persecuted a gay person in my life.

I'm hearing the talk about appealing to women, appealing to "young", appealing to hispanics, appealing to blacks, appealing to illegal immigrants, appealing to left handed Methodist numismatists, etc. What possible changes can Republicans make that would make them more appealing to all of these groups than the original Democrat Party?
simple, everyone can agree on fiscal conservatism. People want low taxes, a balanced budget, strong economy with good jobs, strong defense.

Focus on that, not social issues, let states handle that stuff.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:21   #60
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I'm not opposed to gay rights and I've never persecuted a gay person in my life.

I'm hearing the talk about appealing to women, appealing to "young", appealing to hispanics, appealing to blacks, appealing to illegal immigrants, appealing to left handed Methodist numismatists, etc. What possible changes can Republicans make that would make them more appealing to all of these groups than the original Democrat Party?
Become the party of small government again. Reduce spending across the board. Also give a lot of the power back to the states.

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:22   #61
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Absolutely none.

In fact, I think the gov't should have NO involvement in marriage whatsoever. If the gov't insists on a piece of the pie, it should be a civil union pie. Everyone can get a gov't approved and licensed civil union with whomever or whatever the hell they want. Or they can just shack up. Then if your church wants to perform marriage ceremonies for gays, or polygamists, fine. They can. if they don't, also fine. Mine won't, and you cannot make it. But there are many that will, and you can always start another one. Everyone gets what they want. Problem is solved. Why the heck is that so hard?

I'm sick to death of GLBT "rights" issues. You HAVE all the same rights I do right now. If you want to staple your eyebrows and run a chain from your nose to your ear, tattoo your face, pierce your tongue, and wear clothing in public that is usually seen on the bodies of the opposite gender, fine. Do so. But don't complain to me that there are consequences for all these ACTIONS. Permanent physical characteristics deserve legal protections (race, gender, handicap), but voluntary actions do not. If I want to wear a dress and long nails, then I shouldn't be applying for work as a lineman. If I want to wear a hijab, then I shouldn't be applying for work at Hooters. I don't go seeking public approval for the things Mr.C&I entertain ourselves doing in private. It's self-defeating for the GLBT crowd to be so hung up and needy about getting everyone to approve of their peccadilloes. They'd get farther coming up with a rational, well-reasoned argument for why I should approve of their lifestyle, instead of saying, "Mommy Gov't says you have to play with me."

Government is a poor excuse for God. The larger it gets, the more intrusive and evil it becomes, eventually stealing free will from citizens, and turning them into subjects, and ultimately into slaves. I neither need nor want the approval of the government for my actions, choices, possessions, or life. I accept that there are consequences to my actions, both public and private, and you can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:26   #62
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Absolutely none.

In fact, I think the gov't should have NO involvement in marriage whatsoever. If the gov't insists on a piece of the pie, it should be a civil union pie. Everyone can get a gov't approved and licensed civil union with whomever or whatever the hell they want. Or they can just shack up. Then if your church wants to perform marriage ceremonies for gays, or polygamists, fine. They can. if they don't, also fine. Mine won't, and you cannot make it. But there are many that will, and you can always start another one. Everyone gets what they want. Problem is solved. Why the heck is that so hard?

I'm sick to death of GLBT "rights" issues. You HAVE all the same rights I do right now. If you want to staple your eyebrows and run a chain from your nose to your ear, tattoo your face, pierce your tongue, and wear clothing in public that is usually seen on the bodies of the opposite gender, fine. Do so. But don't complain to me that there are consequences for all these ACTIONS. Permanent physical characteristics deserve legal protections (race, gender, handicap), but voluntary actions do not. If I want to wear a dress and long nails, then I shouldn't be applying for work as a lineman. If I want to wear a hijab, then I shouldn't be applying for work at Hooters. I don't go seeking public approval for the things Mr.C&I entertain ourselves doing in private. It's self-defeating for the GLBT crowd to be so hung up and needy about getting everyone to approve of their peccadilloes. They'd get farther coming up with a rational, well-reasoned argument for why I should approve of their lifestyle, instead of saying, "Mommy Gov't says you have to play with me."

Government is a poor excuse for God. The larger it gets, the more intrusive and evil it becomes, eventually stealing free will from citizens, and turning them into subjects, and ultimately into slaves. I neither need nor want the approval of the government for my actions, choices, possessions, or life. I accept that there are consequences to my actions, both public and private, and you can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
What about tax law? That's the only part I think that requires the "permission" of the federal government for marriage.

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:39   #63
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For the most part I don't care what people do so long as I'm not required to pay for it.

If you dude want to get married so be it. They deserve to be miserable also.

Legalize pot, it's somewhat harmless and impossible to eradicate.

Protect the environment but do so reasonably.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:53   #64
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I am not sympathetic to the Lefties at all. Nor am I sympathetic to the Righties.

I think that they both had ruined America enough already and that they need to be gone.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:57   #65
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I'm on board with abortion. I also don't think government should have any role in adult relationships which means no hand in marriage....gay or otherwise.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:58   #66
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I agree with helping the less fortunate. The blind, crippled, mentally unstable and poor etc.. The way to go about helping is where I differ from current protocol. The best kind of help is getting people jobs. The Government can't seem to do anything efficiently. Too much of the dollar collected goes to the collecting and administering and not enough to those who need it.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:16   #67
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So many people don't understand how the progressive game works, we started with gay unions, which I had no problem with, then gay marriage, gays in the military, now we have people wanting transgender Marines. I just read about a transgender first grader whose parents were upset that he couldn't go to the bathroom with the girls.

In other words they wanted to be treated like other adults independent of their sexuality?
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:20   #68
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I agree with helping the less fortunate. The blind, crippled, mentally unstable and poor etc.. The way to go about helping is where I differ from current protocol. The best kind of help is getting people jobs. The Government can't seem to do anything efficiently. Too much of the dollar collected goes to the collecting and administering and not enough to those who need it.
This.

and futhermore, quit telling specific groups that it is all someone else's fault, all the while holding them as slaves to the entitlements that the politicians promise to pass out in exchange for a faithful vote.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:32   #69
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I usually avoid these discussions because they're so predicable. This time, I have to say that I am encouraged by how varied the responses are. Our nation has never been so polarized, and it's clear to me that this is a political strategy common to both parties. Guns are just the latest play in their book.

Just for now, can we set aside our differences and ALL write to our legislators to say that while we support/oppose gay rights, choice, leash laws, etc. WE OPPOSE NEW GUN REGULATIONS and will vote against any candidate who supports them?
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:34   #70
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I also agree with their supposed stance on the poor and their compassion. I just never see them actually putting their money where their mouth is.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:40   #71
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What are the "left/liberal" things you get?

Gay Rights. Much as I hate to admit it, I had to come to terms with the fact that they have as much right to the happiness and/or misery of marriage as I do. And all the "legal" benefits and/or heartaches that go along with it. Now If we could just get them to be quiet about their lifestyle.

Be proud, be gay, but for Petes sake.........BE QUIET!

Abortion. Again, I do not agree with it in principle, its a piss poor form of birth control. I would never advise any woman to have one unless it was a case of rape, or the pregnancy endangered the life of the mother. But I came to my opinion about it using my own morals and ethics. Everyone else should be allowed to do the same.

Religion. I do not care about religion insomuch as it exists and people are into it. But it does not belong in schools, government or in my face. It's kinda like being gay....Fine, whatever, but please, not everyone agrees with you or wants to hear about it all the time. If ya wanna say "God bless you" when I sneeze, or "Merry Christmas" during the holidays, I'll return the sentiment. But I don't need you to pray for me and I don't want your religious values informing laws that I must adhere to.

Environment. The all or nothing attitude about tree huggers pisses me off. I think we can protect the environment and get the resources we need to sustain ourselves. Responsible stewardship and a common sense approach to logging, oil and gas exploration, and other needs can go a long way without saying "You may never use this land for anything ever". On the other hand, destroying forests, eradicating entire species of animals and destroying wildlife habitats seems incredibly short sight, selfish and foolish to me. There has to be a way to accomplish both goals.

Liberals and conservatives both have some good ideas, they both have some ideas that don't work out so well in practice, and they both have hare brained ideas that should have been squashed before they were uttered aloud.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:06   #72
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I do not support Gay Marriage. I do however, support treating all people fairly and I believe some arrangement could be made to ensure that civil unions are available to those who are Gay for benefits, etc.

I support forging a path to citizenship for the 12 million Mexican illegal aliens who are not going back with the caveats of real border security and the requirement that all of these 12 million pass an English language proficiency test.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:14   #73
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I do not support Gay Marriage. I do however, support treating all people fairly and I believe some arrangement could be made to ensure that civil unions are available to those who are Gay for benefits, etc.
This is the most important aspect of this argument. Even if you don't support gay marriage, it isn't your place to tell them they can't get married. Just like if they don't like guns, it isn't their place to tell you that you can't have them.

Government needs to stay out of our lives, and let us make the decisions we want, regardless of whether they agree with it or not.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:30   #74
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Marriage for some Christians and Jews goes beyond Government. It is thought of to be ordained by God Almighty as a relationship between one man and one woman. Suddenly, after 10,000 years we learn we have been wrong? I don't think so.

The ideal compromise is to give Gay people the benefits and rights via a Civil union. If we chose to do away with God's interpretation of Marriage then it is only fitting that we eliminate Christmas and Easter holidays---that we end the practice some U.S. companies engage in whereby 5 personal days are granted for things such as observances as the high holy days in the Judaism or the sacred events of Islam. We should also end the practice of the Christmas Bonus, end any government entities receipt of taxes for goods sold in observance of Christmas, Hannukah, Ramadan or Bar Mitzvahs or Bah Mitzvahs. Anything that is remotely tied to religion should be hands off to the Government.

Again, I do not mistreat Gay people. I refuse to. I do not put up with jokes or disparaging comments. I ask that they honor my beliefs as well. I teach my children that marriage is between one man and one woman but that we are to keep our opinions to ourselves. I teach then that the public speech Obama gave last year was wrong and that we are test anything anyone in authority tells us against our own values but that we are to be kind in so doing.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:36   #75
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Fear. This is what I think is behind most liberal complaints with society. I believe they are afraid of others that seem more confident and see this as personally threatening. I believe they are afraid of "not being right" and must force others to agree with them to believe they are right, both in living their lives and in their decisions.

Liberals seem to let fear be the central controlling factor in their lives. I can see how this can be, but I cannot understand how you can let it consume you. Conservatives, for the most part, appear to have taken the reins from fear and try to control their own destiny,with the self confidence that they can make their own lives better by being in control of themselves and their fears. Conservatives have fears but have learned to control them.

I can understand fear. The fear that all of us develop during our lives comes from various sources. Fear is a natural defense against something we perceive that may seriously injure or kill us, emotionally or physically.

It starts out being a learned protection, unless it is learned from fearful parents. Then their emotionally crippling fears are transferred to their children. This starts a chain of increasingly fearful generations that eventually cannot function within society since everything is feared and threatening to them, until they feel society must be changed to ally their fears.

Fear is something we should have learned about during our emotional development. We should have learned that we are individually in control of it and no one else can assume that responsibility for us. It is within each of us at our beginning, to learn how to properly deal with it. This seems to have escaped many of us.

What I don't understand is the additional fear of confronting it, and adjusting your own life to minimize the effects it has on individual behaviors. You don't have to be a superman to control or face your fears; you just have to believe you can do something about it/them. The belief that you can control somethingis key to being in control.

But to turn to government to ban or control everything that we are afraid of, is absurd. Each of us have fears of some things. If we all try to eliminate each of our individual fears by controlling others we perceive as potential threats to us, we may pretty soon have nothing to be afraid of, but no freedom of action and no real life. Anything we do will be viewed as threatening by someone else and we will be stopped from doing it. This is serfdom.

Government panders to these fears because it imparts more power to the government, and governments will never believe they ever have enough power. The progression of government is to control everything, thereby achieving ultimate power to do to us what it thinks is right, or at least what it thinks we must do. Liberals are now driving this government machinery towards the cliff.

Most all laws are based on minimizing fear in the populace. Some of this is for the general good. But most of it is for the advantage of the most affluent,vocal, or largest most fearful group. It is an emotional burden being placed on us all, by some.
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