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Old 03-01-2013, 07:49   #281
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Or,......simply replacing the Glock with an HK or a 1911
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:51   #282
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If you've never shot a HK45C? You don't know what you're missing.

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Old 03-02-2013, 18:43   #283
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Originally Posted by Wil Ufgood View Post

i wish they would bring back the P7 series.
It would result in a worldwide steel shortage.
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:29   #284
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i bought a registered receiver hk91 (g3) from a friend years ago, knowing the barrel was pitted by someone using corrosive ammo. not trashed, but not nice and shiny either.
anyway, i thought i would someday have the barrel changed out for a new one, but money got in the way. long story short, i cooked up some 168 grain handloads for it and it shoots .5-.75 MOA all day long. i doubt any other self-loading 308 battle rifle would do that, even without a pitted bore. every single hk rifle, even the clones, i have shot are all 1 MOA or less. hk pistols are nice, but for my money, the rifles are really where the extra cost is justified.
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Old 03-05-2013, 22:08   #285
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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
Looks like you prefer a Corvette?
Why drive that when a Vega will get you to the same darn place?
Well let's see... a 440 HP 'vette performs incredibly differently than a 110 HP Vega, and has a higher price tag to reflect that.

A $500 Glock has slightly more inherent accuracy from a rest and a better trigger than a $900 HK. It makes sense to buy the less expensive item if it outperforms the more expensive one, as is the case with HK and Glock. However, since this isn't the case with the Vega and Corvette, your analogy makes absolutely no sense...
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Old 03-07-2013, 18:15   #286
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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
Or,......simply replacing the Glock with an HK or a 1911
Yep i did....
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:44   #287
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Think about it.

Why HK?

1. Most are designed, built and tested to NATO MIL specs (ACC-225), not commercial specs. NATO specs includes tests not conducted by many commercial makers such as drop tests, obstructed bore tests, extreme temps, ice, static sand, OTB, elevated/depressed, etc.

2. All (100%) of HK firearms are test fired and zeroed at the factory. In some companies only a % are tested.

3. HK materials (steel, barrel, etc.) are of the highest quality available and it shows in long-term or worst case scenarios. The superior barrel performance is a good example, though you may never see it in casual use.

4. HK pistols are not assembled by armorers’ students and then sold to customers. Some companies have been known to do so.

5. The average German worker is paid at a far higher rate than the equivalent US worker. Part of the reasons why includes the mandatory training they must receive and tests they must pass before receiving the position. The cost of living in Germany is also higher and HK contributes to a substantial “Pensioner Fund” for its retirees. Many also work at the same company for decades and not uncommon are 40 year employees!) and therefore rise high on the pay scale for their extensive hard-earned skill and experience.

6. HK barrels are made by a cold hammer forged process using a material that is unique to HK guns. Many barrels get special HK-unique steps added such as a tapered, poly, hybrid poly bore profile or induction hardening and all long-gun barrels are straightened. As an example, Stelite liners are not used in HK MG barrels – they are simply not needed and perform as well or better.

7. Compare the polymer molding and machining of say an HK P30 and a SIG P229. It is RARE to see machining marks on an HK.

8. HK rigorously tests their products to destruction in a "Firing Lab" manned with very senior test personnel before the design is frozen. This reduces the incidence of post-release issues. HK also takes and test its products at remote environmental test facilities to include desert (Yuma Proving Grounds, Saudi Arabia), arctic (Norway, Alaska), jungle (Brunei, Panama). That costs BIG bucks but pays off in hard core performance.

9. HK guns are imported for the most part (or the parts used to assemble them in NH) are imported. That results in mandatory FET, freight and exchange rate subsidies being added and passed on to the customer. HK as a German gun maker and importer they also have to comply with stringent export controls and that too costs money, which gets passed along in sale prices.

10. The cost of the production tooling (and materials) used by HK to produce, assemble and QA product is high as it includes QA tests and steps not conducted by many other makers. HK cut its teeth as a mass producer and still today builds the production tooling with that in mind –high volumes with a lot of automation. That tooling and gauging costs money as does the high hourly rates of the skilled workers and the additional time required to conduct it.

11. 10-20% of HK’s annual operating budget is spent on its extensive “Technique” departments to include Design, Prototype Fabrication and the Firing Lab. These are the highest paid, most skilled workers at HK and that costs money as well. They are best of breed and always have many more projects up in the air then you might think, or know of (Phased Plasma Rifle in the 80 watt Range).

12. HK places itself purposely in the “higher end” of the market. Like BMW and Mercedes HK knows it rates are higher and always will be compared to say Colt, S&W, Beretta, etc. So they go after superior performance and quality at a higher price point to fewer purchasers versus a cheaper, lower quality product to more buyers.

13. @ 15% of HK annual revenue is reinvested in new products, and infrastructure. While that may not seem like a lot it is and the state of the factory at in Oberndorf shows it. Look at the state of their competitors factories. There are few that compare to HK GmbH in the eyes of those who have been to many others. HK spends the revenue it makes off of both commercial and Government sales on new product so in a way the US commercial buyer who purchases an HK45 pistol helps fund the development of the MG4 LMG or XM25.

14. HK builds much of the weapon parts in house to maintain quality control. While cheaper subs are available one loses some control in doing so. HK’s goal has always been to minimize cost but maintain quality and to do so it keeps many items in house that in many others companies go to the higher bidder (magazines, small piece parts, etc.). HK also has some of the very best MIM and molding capabilities and can thus up the quality of their product by using their own, superior product.

15. Like HK, HK’s subs are of a higher quality for the same reasons and with the same end results. You buy the very best frame mold in Germany, it will cost you but the end product is superior.

16. Interchangeable parts – very few HK parts are not fully interchangeable without hand fitting. Even in a gun like the GMG, there are no parts that require hand fitting. This requires that each and every raw material and finished part, and each tool that fabricates the part, is dimensionally and exactly the same and maintained the same at all time by constant checks by skilled personnel with high dollar measuring devices and gauges. Again something you may never see but it insures when you replace a part it both fits and works w/o modifications.

17. HK has voluntarily developed, tested and included in their product unique features like USP firing mode modularity, MK23 barrel O-rings, special high performance finishes, unique G36/HK416 gas systems, drop-in LEM trigger systems, side-loading 40mm grenade launchers, GMG’s with extruded aluminum receivers and HK211’s with Ti receivers, unique cartridges for things like MP7 and P46, etc. HK also makes over 100 models of HK firearms currently and 1000’s of modular variants for users the world over speaking many languages, which costs money to build, inventory, document and record these countless production variations.
I'm sure HK is a fine hand gun, in fact I was interested in buying one. But I just couldn't justify the difference in price between the HK and Glock. I decided to go ahead and order the Glock 30S.
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Old 04-05-2013, 16:55   #288
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No Compromise

Quote:
Originally Posted by BADOS View Post
I'm sure HK is a fine hand gun, in fact I was interested in buying one. But I just couldn't justify the difference in price between the HK and Glock. I decided to go ahead and order the Glock 30S.
I take it you've never actually owned a HK then?
Heckler & Koch Forum

Last edited by barth; 04-05-2013 at 17:00..
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:03   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BADOS View Post
I'm sure HK is a fine hand gun, in fact I was interested in buying one.
But I just couldn't justify the difference in price between the HK and Glock. I decided to go ahead and order the Glock 30S.

What car do you drive? Do you live in a $45k home?
Do you drive a basic $14k Yugo, or a more expensive model? Do you live in a 900 sq ft,
one beadroom home or a larger & more expensive one? I'd much rather defend my loved ones
with a weapon that I believe is superior. Yes, the cost is greater, to me, it's worth it.

If you are content with a Glock, that is great, I am just happy you are
willing to defend your loved ones and yourself. I really do not care what you
decide to carry or defend your home with. But look at it like I do for a minute.
Many seem to have the same thoughts as I do.

A Glock is a good weapon, an HK is a great weapon.

Last edited by faawrenchbndr; 04-06-2013 at 06:48..
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:46   #290
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I take it you've never actually owned a HK then?
Heckler & Koch Forum
My Hk 45C worked on by Grayguns is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot! It's that good! Hk lives up to the hype.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:49   #291
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I hear Gray does outstanding trigger work!
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:17   #292
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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
I hear Gray does outstanding trigger work!
That's probably an understatement! The man is a genius! He did both my Hk's! Spoke to him yesterday and getting ready to send my Mark 25 out to him. Worth every penny!!
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:41   #293
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I followed his work with other platforms, never with HK.
You are correct as well, he is an amazingly talented PistolSmith

What did you have done to your trigger? Thinking of sending my P30
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:11   #294
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This is straight from his site.


Heckler & Koch Reduced Reset Carry Perfection Package – $365

Comprehensive action refitting and smoothing work, full feed and reliability package; gauging of safety and sear engagement values and assessment of condition; sight regulation and thorough range testing.

This package includes an internal over-travel stop as necessary and a 12lb mainspring is provided for a reduced DA trigger pull of proven reliability when tested with your carry ammo. This package includes our Proprietary Reduced Reset providing approx. 40-45 percent reduction in total trigger reset and reuptake travel while maintaining Firing Pin Block integrity and all other factory safety values. Includes refinishing of all fire control parts with Nickel PTFE for the smoothest and most durable action possible. (Note: Some parts like hammer and axle will be externally visible.)

This package can be applied to the following Heckler & Koch pistols including: HK USP, USP Compact, P2000 or P2000SK, P30, P30L, P30S, HK45, and HK45 Compact, and is applicable to all DA/SA, SAO, LEM or DAO action variants.

My single action pull is around 4lbs and double is around 10lbs. There is no creep in the single action. The reset is so short. It's fantastic. The action is smooth as glass with his Nickel ptfe coatings. I had him install Dawson Precision sights with the fiber optic front. I don't know which one I like better. The full size or compact. You will love it!
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:10   #295
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I've owned one P9S, three P7's, one USP, and three USP compacts. All were excellent, classy weapons. But....I sold the compacts because they just do not work for me for some reason. Go figure.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:45   #296
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I've owned one P9S, three P7's, one USP, and three USP compacts. All were excellent, classy weapons. But....I sold the compacts because they just do not work for me for some reason. Go figure.

Me too. Two USP Compacts in .45 and two P7 PSPs. Sold all of them. Great guns but just not something that I choose to keep long term. The P7 is such a unique gun that nothing else really is like it. I prefer a commander size 1911 to the USP Compact in .45 ACP. Just a better overall felling gun than the USP IMO.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:05   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLift45's View Post
That's probably an understatement! The man is a genius! He did both my Hk's! Spoke to him yesterday and getting ready to send my Mark 25 out to him. Worth every penny!!
You meant MK 23 right?

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Old 04-06-2013, 12:46   #298
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You meant MK 23 right?

Nope the Mark 25. It's the Navy Seal Sig 226.
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Old 04-06-2013, 16:00   #299
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Nope the Mark 25. It's the Navy Seal Sig 226.
Ok, I was "thinking" HK.....
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Old 04-06-2013, 18:23   #300
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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
I followed his work with other platforms, never with HK.
You are correct as well, he is an amazingly talented PistolSmith

What did you have done to your trigger? Thinking of sending my P30
There is a member on HKPro who had his P30's done by GGI and is very happy!! I just put the lfpbs in both mine and the da/sa was much better...but even before i liked the P30s trigger Bruce even shot HK's in competetion awhile back.
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