GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-27-2013, 06:22   #76
hooligan74
Senior Member
 
hooligan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Understanding the basics is one thing, but being able to quote verse by line and paragraph from memory on just about any subject is a bit obsessive.
In your opinion. Are you a psychologist or psychiatrist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Unless the motive is to battle the Christians. I did a bit of studying of the Koran when in conflict with Muslims. I didn't take the time to memorize it though.
And your way is the only way to do things?

I can't quote chapter and verse, myself, but I won't pass judgement on anyone who can for whatever reason.

I'm certain there have been and will continue to be atheist theology or world religions majors graduating from Universities all over the planet every year...
hooligan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 06:49   #77
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Well now wait. Jesus had a tantrum and tore up the Temple. Is tearing up God's house a sin? Does one get to do that because one does not like what's happening in god's house?
You have a sharp mind. I don't think that you really believe that cleaning the temple of the irreverent money changers was tearing up God's house. Rather, you are using it as a pretext to belittle and disparage God and His followers.

The reason why the money changers were thrown out of the outer court of the temple was so that the Gentiles could have a place of prayer with some peace and reverence. If course you have to read and understand the story to get there.

Matthew 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Matthew 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:23   #78
Arc Angel
Deus Vult!
 
Arc Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 10,956
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEER View Post
I don't come in here often but I figure this is the best place to ask. Who defines "evil"?

We as human beings define child molesters as evil right? But religions the world over have leaders of their various faiths molesting children, and those religious leaders are not struck down by God. We consider violent criminals that kill innocents as evil, yet God doesn't strike them down.

I get the whole "free will" thing, but at some point there has to be a limit right? So if God cast out Satan for merely questioning him, why wouldn't he strike down those that would not only cause harm to us his greatest creation, but especially the weakest of us the children?

Who decides what "evil" truly means? Us, or God? and which is correct?
Well, ……… if you’re asking this question about the Judeo-Christian God, as well as asking it of, either, practicing Christians or Jews then there can be only one authoritative source from which to obtain the correct answer. (If you want to know, ‘What’ sin is then the last individual you should ever ask would be a flagrant God-hating sinner. Right! ) That source is, of course, the canonized Holy Bible. (Both the Old and the New Testaments of God)

Broadly speaking, ‘Evil’ is anything that is antithetical to the expressed Will of God - Anything! Consequently, your question becomes, ‘What’ is the expressed Will of God? Hey, we’ve been given a large entire book on the subject! It’s, also, been my experience that men have an intuitive sense of, ‘right’ and, ‘wrong’; and that’s not all. Men have access to (What is actually.) an acquired personal conscience. The problem with individual conscience, though, is that it needs to be subjectively and deliberately educated before it might be of any, ‘good use’.

In order to be understood, ‘evil’ must first be conceptualized. According to the very limited thought-processes of the human mind, ‘evil’ may be described as, ‘the opposite of good’. What is not, ‘good’ is, then, ‘evil’. Therefore, it is not rationally possible to define, ‘evil’ without also defining, ‘good’.

Frankly I think you’re getting, ‘hung up’ on too many individual examples of the higher, all-encompassing definition that you’re looking for. A long time ago I learned that no matter where you live in the world, all men, everywhere, intuitively recognize an: honest man, a brave man, a compassionate man; or, alternatively: a dishonest man, a cowardly man, or a selfish man.

All you've got to do is interact with someone for awhile; and, if you're really smart, apply the famous, 'boondoggle test'. Do this, and you will find out, very quickly, what you want to know about the other guy(s). So, who is the most difficult person to identify? Surprisingly it's not someone who, 'masks' well; instead, it would be someone who is inconsistent and vacillates between the various extremes. (Hence, even, ‘the best of men’ commit sin. It's only a question of degree. *1. )

In Moses’ so-called, ‘universal creation myth’ there are two trees in the garden: One is the, ‘tree of life’; and the other is the, ‘tree of the knowledge of good, and evil’. Simplistically speaking, our progenitors, ‘ate’ of the, ‘tree of the knowledge of good, and evil’. Once, ‘Adam and Eve’ indulged themselves they discovered - to their eternal chagrin - that they had irrevocably changed themselves - NOT for the better, but for the worse!

I’ll try to conceptualize your question for you: The Christ said that, ‘Only God is good’. *2. King Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes that the real, the necessary, thing that everyman MUST do is to obey The Lord - Period! *3.

So, where do you (or anyone else) begin? There are 613 mitzvot (commandments) in the Old Testament. (The foundation upon which the New Testament is founded.) Of these 613 mitzvot, there are ten principal commandments, one outstanding secondary commandment, and two primary ancillary commandments. ALL are related to doing, ‘good’ before God. In my opinion, if all a man were to know about doing good, and evil were these 13 primary commandments then that man would have a very strong foundation in, ‘knowing’ the differences between good, and evil.

Specifically what did The Messiah say to that inquiring (and subtle) religious scholar? Christ said, ‘Thou shalt love The Lord, Thy God, with: all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.’ ‘THIS is the first, and great commandment.’ Then Christ went on to say, ‘The second commandment is like unto it: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.’ ‘Upon these two commandments rests all The Law, and all the teachings of all the prophets.’ *4. This in reply to the man’s devious request for Christ to identify for him, ‘the principal commandment’ in The Law!

What, then, is evil? Evil is, both, sin AND the personal willingness to commit sin. ‘Sin’, in turn, is anything that violates the expressed Will of God; the consequence of which is evil. ‘Sin’ and, ‘evil’ are, therefore, closely interrelated terms. There are three immediate and glaring discrepancies in your reasoning: (1) God did NOT throw Satan out of Heaven merely for questioning Him. (Where did you get that nonsense from?) (2) Neither does God not punish ANYONE who fails to obey His expressed will. That most learned of Torah scholars, the Apostle Paul, emphatically states, ‘The wages sin pays is death.’ *5. (Just how plain does it have to be for you? ) (3) You say that, ‘evil is arbitrary’; but Christ has said, ‘By their deeds ye shall know that which they truly are!

Because I’ve, now, had a considerable amount of experience in dealing with evil men I’m going to expand upon Christ’s last remark for you. (Ready?) ‘By both their deeds, and associations you will know the true character of those with whom you are dealing. *6. I hear ya; but, frankly, I don’t think you get, ‘the whole free will thing’ at all. Neither do you seem to understand the meaning and nuances of the term, ‘false prophet’. In closing let me add one more spiritual concept which I do not think you understand: ……… Karma.

I’m going to caution you against making the serious mistake of fooling yourself into believing that God does not see; that He does not hear; or that He does not judge, AND both reward and punish. The last thing I’m going to point out to you is Christ’s stern admonition that each and everyone of us IS GOING to answer for his every single: thought, word, and deed - Every single one! *7.

So, if you’re worried that God is allowing certain people to get away with anything, stop! As a practicing Christian, let me assure you that nobody ever gets away with anything - Not from the smallest of words to the largest of deeds. I would suggest that you should be VERY glad that it is not going to be you who has to pay for another man’s most despicable sins.

AROUND HERE THERE ARE NO FREE RIDES! (OK)



*1. Refer: Isaiah 64:6, ‘But we are all as an unclean thing; and all our righteousness is as filthy rags. We, all, do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

*2. Refer: Matthew 19:17, ‘And He said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? There is none good, but One, that is God; but if thou wilt enter into life, then, thou must keep the Commandments of God.

*3. Refer: Ecclesiastes 12:13, ‘Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole duty of a man.

*4. Refer: Matthew 22:37-41.

*5. Refer: Romans 6:23.

*6. Refer: Matthew 7:15-20: ‘Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

*7. Refer: (1.) Ecclesiastes 12:14, And (2.) Matthew 12:36: (1) ‘For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.’ (2) ‘But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Arc Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 15:24   #79
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,260


Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan74 View Post
In your opinion. Are you a psychologist or psychiatrist?



And your way is the only way to do things?

I can't quote chapter and verse, myself, but I won't pass judgement on anyone who can for whatever reason.

I'm certain there have been and will continue to be atheist theology or world religions majors graduating from Universities all over the planet every year...
Awful touchy today aren't you? Relax. I'm just saying it's odd. I wasn't making a diagnosis, just an observation.

I just think it's a little weird to be that familiar with a book you don't agree with. Seems kind of an "active" thing to do.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-27-2013 at 15:47..
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 18:36   #80
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 13,392


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Awful touchy today aren't you? Relax. I'm just saying it's odd. I wasn't making a diagnosis, just an observation.

I just think it's a little weird to be that familiar with a book you don't agree with. Seems kind of an "active" thing to do.
Why do you always resort to the dishonest tactic of mischaracterizing the argument of others as somehow containing emotion that just isn't there? You realize that it's not actually fooling anyone, right?

As for your second point, it would be pretty illogical to disagree with a book that you weren't familiar with, wouldn't it? How else could one form an opinion on it? Some of us here are actually in possession of inquisitive minds that lead us to investigate topics that are unknown to us.

Not all of us are content to wallow in the pit of our own ignorance. Some of us are on a search for answers.
__________________
CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 02-27-2013 at 18:37..
Geko45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 18:43   #81
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilley View Post
<-------------me
For the first time in the history of Glock Talk, I agree with Tilley.
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 04:26   #82
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,260


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Why do you always resort to the dishonest tactic of mischaracterizing the argument of others as somehow containing emotion that just isn't there? You realize that it's not actually fooling anyone, right?

As for your second point, it would be pretty illogical to disagree with a book that you weren't familiar with, wouldn't it? How else could one form an opinion on it? Some of us here are actually in possession of inquisitive minds that lead us to investigate topics that are unknown to us.

Not all of us are content to wallow in the pit of our own ignorance. Some of us are on a search for answers.

geko,

No one is expecting you to be objective where I am concerned. If you didn't see emotion in his post, that's your version, I saw it. Just one more among many things we can disagree on.

Inquisitiveness is one thing, but detailed study like that seems to be more than necessary. It seems more like a "know your enemy" thing than a "let me study this so I will firmly not believe in it" thing.

It seems the motivation would more likely be one way or the other for someone that believed it should be eliminated. Be honest.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 05:33   #83
hooligan74
Senior Member
 
hooligan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Awful touchy today aren't you? Relax. I'm just saying it's odd. I wasn't making a diagnosis, just an observation.
No, I'm not touchy at all. I thought this was a discussion? I'm not allowed to share my opinions and observations, as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I just think it's a little weird to be that familiar with a book you don't agree with. Seems kind of an "active" thing to do.
You're more than welcome to your opinion, of course. However, you have been given several perfectly normal reasons (IMO) as to why non-believers might be that familiar with the texts of the Bible. I guess I just don't find it that strange, especially in this country.
hooligan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 05:36   #84
hooligan74
Senior Member
 
hooligan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
...If you didn't see emotion in his post, that's your version, I saw it...
And as the author of the post in question, I can assure you that you're reading much too far into it.

I just found it odd that you stated your opinions in that post as undeniable fact. No "in my opinion" or "it would seem" or "I think" to be found anywhere. That's all.
hooligan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 07:37   #85
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,260


Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan74 View Post
And as the author of the post in question, I can assure you that you're reading much too far into it.

I just found it odd that you stated your opinions in that post as undeniable fact. No "in my opinion" or "it would seem" or "I think" to be found anywhere. That's all.
I hear you. Most of my posts are typed on a phone. Economy of words is a factor.

But just to be clear, if I ever state that I think something is an undeniable fact, I'll preface it with: "this is irrefutable".
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 14:46   #86
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Just curious, but about how much time are atheists spending studying and researching the bible? I haven't read a word out of one in well over 25 years.

It just seems a bit odd that some of the more comitted atheists reference it so often.
Some people actually believe in studying something before they decide to believe it or not, rather than the lazy approach of saying there are two alternatives and pretending both are therefore equally likely.

Others are more comfortable wallowing in ignorance and trying to get it all over everyone they come into contract with.

Randy

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
steveksux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:02.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 854
230 Members
624 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42