Home Forums Classifieds GT Store Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups


Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2013, 20:33   #1
Senior Member
mr00jimbo's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,353
Is the tactical shotgun obsolete?

I know lots of guys will wade through the muck with their Benelli or Wingmaster shotguns and bring ducks home for dinner.

But I'm talking about the shorter ones, the 18-inch-ish configuration ones with the purpose of using it for police work, "SHTF" or whatever, essentially using it for the purposes one would use a carbine.

While watching an episode of Rescue 911 (Bonus points if you remember when that show was on the air!) on YouTube, an officer was being shot by an offender at a distance that apparently was out of shotgun range, so after being injured he had to somehow reach for his M14 patrol rifle and fire back.

People have valid criticisms of the shotgun, including:
"It's too heavy!"
"It's too slow to reload"
"It holds too few rounds"
"Its limited in effective distance which puts me at a disadvantage"

All of those are good points. I mean, after all, an AR which holds 30 rounds (or 5 to 10 depending on how horrible your local laws are ) is lighter, quicker handling, and recoils significantly less. It can be reloaded quicker, is more accurate, especialy out to distance, and can be used in versatile conditions.

It seems to be the nail in the coffin of what would be a tactical shotgun. I mean, wouldn't cops or civilians alike want 30 rounds on tap compared to 6 or 7? Faster follow-up shots versus having to pump? Eliminating the jams associated with short stroking the action? Something easier on both the shoulder and the pocketbook (assuming we're talking buckshot and slug prices).

Surely somebody will stick up for the tactical shotgun? I voted with my money, with a top of the line 870 Police Magnum. Though 7.62x39 semi-automatic rifles that hang in the safe have many of the same positive attributes.

Despite the demerits against the shotgun, I can't help but grab it and a pocket full of buckshot and slugs when I head out into the woods.

But I see less and less people who want a shotgun and make a b-line for some kind of a carbine in its place, or keep the 12 gauge for birds or maybe a slug barrel for deer in wooded areas.

Your thoughts? Is the tactical shotgun role obsolete? Does it have many redeeming qualities over the AR15 platform?
"Learning to shoot with a Glock is like learning to drive with a car with a smashed windshield and two flat tires."
mr00jimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 20:36   #2
U.S.A.F. Ret.
Seriously?'s Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the woods.
Posts: 189
Ok for certain applications, but mostly obsolete.
Seriously? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 20:38   #3
Lifetime Membership
MrMurphy's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Buried in the X-files
Posts: 31,720
Not obsolete, though far from optimal for all-around use.

Inside 20 yards against only a few opponents, the shotgun can wreak havoc in a trained user's hands. In an area where you may rapidly change ranges from 1 yard to 200 and face multiple moving opponents, the rifle reigns supreme as we've known since the 1800s.
"And Shepherds we shall be. For thee, my Lord for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et fili, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."
MrMurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 20:39   #4
Happy Member
FLIPPER 348's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Klamath Falls OR
Posts: 26,401
Originally Posted by mr00jimbo View Post
Your thoughts? Is the tactical shotgun role obsolete? Does it have many redeeming qualities over the AR15 platform?
No, not even close to your first question

........you can find 12g ammo on the shelf now, how about 5.56??
FLIPPER 348 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 20:39   #5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Twin Tiers, NY
Posts: 404
Military still uses the scatter gun for close combat situations so I guess it depend on the scenario. For HD why not, still the best choice AFAIC
Had em' all, love my G30, G27 & now my G20
God Bless America and those who keep us free
wdp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 20:42   #6
Silver Membership
Senior Member
Cole125's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far West, USA
Posts: 7,598
Obsolete? **** no! My tactical shotgun will be the extension of my boot when I
jam it up zombies arse.
Cole125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 21:16   #7
Senior Member
ancient_serpent's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,933
No, I don't think it's obsolete at all.

-ballistic breaching
-less lethal munitions
-home defense
"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."
-Daniel Webster
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have."
ancient_serpent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 21:29   #8
Senior Member
TK-421's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 8,530
Obsolete? No. Limited uses? Yeah.
TK-421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 21:31   #9
Senior Member
Aceman's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,772
Seriously? Ok...

There is no one gun that is perfect for everything. A 12g shotgun - in it's envelope of effectiveness - is THE number ONE manstopper period.

Say what you want; Take an AR and a 12g and shoot 100 BG's with each. The 12g will STOP significantly more, and more permanently. The AR fanboys will tell you how an AR can do anything from killing a squirrel for food at 1000 yards to stopping a vehicle at 30ft. Whatever. .223 moving at high velocity is as likely to pass clean through a target (particularly up close) as it to tumble, ricochet blah blah blah...

As for 30 rounds - how often are you going to miss??? And what is the cost of a miss in the home or in the neighborhood?

A rifle is not an ideal weapon indoors period IMO. Not saying it can't work, or won't work. But small cal high vel .223 rounds are not my first choice for target within 30ft, that might shoot back.

A Shotgun has an AWFUL lot going for it indoors. And in SHTF, the flexibility of the ammo for hunting small to large game from 0 to 100 yards, on land or on the windy, is unbeatable.

As mentioned - the AR has it's benefits like moving from a down the hall to a down the street shot.

Last edited by Aceman; 02-24-2013 at 21:32..
Aceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 21:34   #10
Senior Member
G23c's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: houston, texas
Posts: 4,302
for me, its the best HD option. so, not obsolete. A HD scenario needing more than 7 rounds is unlikely. dont need the worry of overpenetration, I'm not lugging it around all day, and not looking to combat reload.
G23c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 21:35   #11
Not Assimilated
Boats's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 1,355
Carbines are for the weak men and strong girls. And the 300m+ battle space is way over emphasized by the Mattel fans. The zombies aren't real.

Even ol' coots on the interwebs can do minute 'o baddy at 230 yards using a bead sight and off the shelf slugs.

Besides, who wants to watch the bad guy just drop when you can use him as a human spray paint can? Why would you want something that is liable to break or adjustably collapse if you only want to smash some perp face with the stock?

Boats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 21:36   #12
427's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: KUMSC
Posts: 7,000
Shotguns are devastating short range weapons. In an urban environment I'd be very happy with a 12 gauge.
Death twitches my ear. "Live," he says, "I am coming."
Virgil, Minor Poems

Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 22:02   #13
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
JohnnyReb's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,224
They have their uses, but that list grows shorter and shorter, especially if you are dealing with possible body armor.

I enjoy the debate though.
Confederate General Albert Pike: The struggle against oppressive authority is universal and eternal.
JohnnyReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 22:18   #14
Senior Member
arclight610's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,056
Shotguns are only good for killing headcrabs jumping at you
arclight610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 22:19   #15
ChuteTheMall's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Anti-Obamaville
Posts: 67,438

Shotguns are fun, as are revolvers, and they are still useful inside some rooms for home defense within pistol range, but I'd almost always prefer to grab just about any carbine: 7.62x39 AK, or .357 magnum lever action, or even 9mm carbine.

These all have increased effective range over a shotgun, not to mention greater pinpoint accuracy where every projectile has a lawyer attached, and you can choose ammo with various amounts of penetration if that is an issue.
Local cops & swat teams choose 9mm carbines, making that politically correct here in liberalville.
I prefer 7.62x39 for just about everything else within self-defense range, but then I'm a bad guy anyway.

That said, there's always been a loaded shotgun near the bed among other things.

Too bad indoor ranges seem to restrict shotguns so much, I can't shoot them as often as I would like, although the NRA range allows shooting slugs out to 50 yards indoors.

I have the most fun with my SxS rabbit-eared Cimarron/TTN coachgun shooting cowboy action matches, competing against Winchester/Norinco model 97 pump guns. Quick reloading and quick shooting is stressed in this sport.

A cheap shotgun makes a better home defense weapon than a cheap rifle, and it's pretty easy to learn.
Adventure Before Dementia

Johnny Thunder lives on water, feeds on lightning.
Johnny Thunder speaks for no one, goes on fighting.
ChuteTheMall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 22:29   #16
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: at your 6
Posts: 9,654
Originally Posted by 427 View Post
Shotguns are devastating short range weapons. In an urban environment I'd be very happy with a 12 gauge.

This ^^^ Yes...

Not obsolete
LASTRESORT20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 22:30   #17
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
I have too many of the type in question to call them obsolete but I will be the first to say, that, outside of the role at which they are the most effective tool, they quickly become a compromise of diminishing effectiveness especially as distances increase.

I can dump slugs from my favorite Mossberg into reasonable target @100 yds or better, but it's a heck of a lot easier with my SOCOM 16,and as distances increase even more so.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 22:42   #18
Senior Member
method's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 6,365
With a good hard slug, a 12 gauge can cleanly kill any animal that walks the earth.

Will most people ever need that sort of sheer power? Of course not, but then again most people will never need the range and capacity of an AR.

A shotgun can't do everything a .223 can, and vice-versa.
method is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 23:38   #19
Louisville Glocker
Urban Redneck
Louisville Glocker's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,253

Don't forget about a real combat shotgun like the Saiga 12

Watch up to the two or three minute mark at least. Some good shooting right at the end too.. you can get twenty round drums, or magwells that allow very quick magazine changes.

Choose the right shotgun for your needs. The Saiga 12 is an amazing shotgun.
Louisville Glocker
Louisville Kentucky
G19 G26 G30 Sig 2340 357 Beretta U22 (kid's) Two Saiga 12 Two Draco 7.62x39 "pistols" Colt 6920 Saiga SGL21-94, M92 Krinkov "pistol," PSA Patrol Carbine Saiga 223
Louisville Glocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 23:57   #20
Nakanokalronin's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,723
A pump is still a good choice for defending boarders. The rifle can do a lot, but a shotgun still has a place as a defensive firearm. Training and practice can have you firing and reloading a pump shotgun very quickly. Another nice thing about a 12ga is the wide variety of rounds, including rifled inserts for pistol calibers.
Nakanokalronin is offline   Reply With Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:01.

GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
GT Store

Users Currently Online: 761
181 Members
580 Guests

Most users ever online: 4,867
May 19, 2015 at 1:03