GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-19-2013, 21:51   #126
Kurly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
That's simply not true. Women who earn more than their husbands can be ordered to pay support, for example. Women who bring assets to the marriage can lose those assets. Saying women "only stand to gain" is insane.
Yes, that is true....but those type of situations are most certainly the exception.

My Mom was one who was taken by her husband of 10 years for over $800,000. He was a POS from the day we met him and my brothers and I, including her friends, urged her not to marry him but she did anyway. And for the first year or so, all we heard from him was how successful he was, how great his kids were, etc. etc. Turns out he didn't have a pot to pi$$ in and 2 of his 4 kids didn't talk to him.

Yes, there are men out there like that but most women aren't as naive as my mother was. Huge heart, but trusting to a fault.
Kurly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 21:52   #127
Kurly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingsoftpaw View Post
How many women that you know will tolerate a relationship where their husband make significantly less than they do? Think cash and prizes here.

Many females desire a partner at least on the same financial plane as they are.
Bingo....we have a winner.
Kurly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 21:59   #128
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurly View Post
Yes, that is true....but those type of situations are most certainly the exception.
Quick glance at the BLS shows that in nearly 30% of couples, the wives earn more than the husbands.

According to this graphic (based on census data), in roughly 10% of couples, the wife earns twice as much or more as the husband.

The Okie Corral

Last edited by devildog2067; 02-19-2013 at 22:05..
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 23:16   #129
Kurly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Quick glance at the BLS shows that in nearly 30% of couples, the wives earn more than the husbands.

According to this graphic (based on census data), in roughly 10% of couples, the wife earns twice as much or more as the husband.

The Okie Corral
Huh...there's no designation that this graph came from the BLS, but assuming that it's in fact true, why then is that 97% of all alimony is paid by men? How could that be true if these women were the breadwinners? Here's a link to a WSJ article that substantiates it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...448957522.html
Kurly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 23:35   #130
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurly View Post
Huh...there's no designation that this graph came from the BLS
The first number I quoted came from the BLS (link), the source cited for the graph is the US Census Bureau but I did not make it and cannot swear to its accuracy. I just found it through google image search once.

Quote:
but assuming that it's in fact true, why then is that 97% of all alimony is paid by men? How could that be true if these women were the breadwinners?
I don't know the answer, but off the top of my head I can think of several possible explanations. Perhaps the divorced men don't ask for alimony. Perhaps couples where the woman earns more are less likely to get divorced. Perhaps the trend of women earning more is so recent that the change hasn't been seen in alimony statistics yet.

The point is, the two things are related but not exclusive. It's entirely possible for both facts to be true.

Quote:
Here's a link to a WSJ article that substantiates it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...448957522.html
I wouldn't say it "substantiates" it at all. The story used an example of a wife being ordered to pay alimony to her ex-husband. Many of the examples were from Massachusetts, which is the last state in the entire country to award long-term alimony like that.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 16:47   #131
Kurly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
The first number I quoted came from the BLS (link), the source cited for the graph is the US Census Bureau but I did not make it and cannot swear to its accuracy. I just found it through google image search once.


I don't know the answer, but off the top of my head I can think of several possible explanations. Perhaps the divorced men don't ask for alimony. Perhaps couples where the woman earns more are less likely to get divorced. Perhaps the trend of women earning more is so recent that the change hasn't been seen in alimony statistics yet.

The point is, the two things are related but not exclusive. It's entirely possible for both facts to be true.



I wouldn't say it "substantiates" it at all. The story used an example of a wife being ordered to pay alimony to her ex-husband. Many of the examples were from Massachusetts, which is the last state in the entire country to award long-term alimony like that.
Thanks for the clarification and link on the BLS chart.

Regarding your comment: "I don't know the answer, but off the top of my head I can think of several possible explanations. Perhaps the divorced men don't ask for alimony. Perhaps couples where the woman earns more are less likely to get divorced. Perhaps the trend of women earning more is so recent that the change hasn't been seen in alimony statistics yet."

I think you're spot on that many men don't ask for alimony. I've read on several divorce boards that a lot of men simply walked away from pursuing alimony (even though they may have been entitled to it) because a they simply wanted to be done with their wife b) social stigma for a man to be 'taken care of' by a woman.

Where the woman earns more money and is less likely to get divorced I think is also spot on. Much like it is for men to remain in a marriage because financially it would hurt them to get out so they remain in a sexless/loveless marriage or do so for their kids.

And I do think the recent economic demise has affected men disproportionately than women. At least the unemployment figures certainly attest to that. Far more men have lost their jobs than women. I would guestimate some of that is due to PC policies that make it more difficult for an employer to down-size a female or the company's interest in maintaining their 'diversity' numbers. Therefore it's easier to lay a man off than a woman who could potentially file a discrimination lawsuit. Not too easy for a man (white male at that) to do so.

All that said, there is a growing Marriage Strike taking place in our country and it's a rapidly growing one. Those born after 1970 have seen the result of the War on Men and don't want to wind up like their buddies, fathers, uncle or family friends where the man took a HUGE economic hit when their exwife decided she no longer wanted to be in a marriage. And given that both sexes cheat at almost the same rate now, it's not simply an infidelity issue -- less than 25% of divorces occur because of infidelity and yet over 70% of marriages are initiated by women.

Where else would you enter into a contract that says you have a 50/50 chance of losing half of your assets, provide 20-40% of your income for either lifetime (in some states until she remarried) for alimony or until she remarries, and child support for up to 18 years? Even if she was the one who cheated or wanted out?

Please take a look at this article -- it'll re-orientate your perspective on the double-standard and pitfalls when it comes to marriage...and why a growing number of males are simply opting out:

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

I'd also urge you to read an article from the Futurist that shows why Marriage 2.0 is a lose-lose proposition the majority of the time for men. It's got links to the data behind what the article discusses. Quite enlightening:

http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/...ry-bubble.html

Last edited by Kurly; 02-20-2013 at 18:11..
Kurly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 20:09   #132
vikingsoftpaw
Senior Member
 
vikingsoftpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Willoughby, Ohio USA
Posts: 5,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurly View Post
I'd also urge you to read an article from the Futurist that shows why Marriage 2.0 is a lose-lose proposition the majority of the time for men. It's got links to the data behind what the article discusses. Quite enlightening:

http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/...ry-bubble.html
Also a point to consider from the females prospective: Marriage/relationship to a man who is paying 30-50% of take-home income to another women for children he had with her.

Now I know why conversation that I strike up with ladies my age quickly get to the subjects of my profession and the number of children I have.
__________________
G - Guns, PG - Plenty of Guns, PG-13 - More than 13 Guns.

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." - St. Augustine
vikingsoftpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 20:32   #133
silentpoet
Senior Member
 
silentpoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: This Old Caddy
Posts: 15,764
I want to marry, I just ain't found the right one yet. Going to keep looking till there's nothing left.
silentpoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 20:39   #134
Kurly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingsoftpaw View Post
Also a point to consider from the females prospective: Marriage/relationship to a man who is paying 30-50% of take-home income to another women for children he had with her.

Now I know why conversation that I strike up with ladies my age quickly get to the subjects of my profession and the number of children I have.
True.

But I thought feminism was all about "equality". Why, if she *LOVES* you, then she should "understand" and be "thankful" that you're being a responsible father to take care of your kids.

Wouldn't she want her kid's father to do the same? ;-)

Somehow it doesn't work both ways....does it?

LOL. And women wonder why men are starting to wise up and see them for who they are.

The Okie Corral

Last edited by Kurly; 02-20-2013 at 21:13..
Kurly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 20:49   #135
Kurly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentpoet View Post
I want to marry, I just ain't found the right one yet. Going to keep looking till there's nothing left.
And until then...keep it wrapped!
Kurly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 21:18   #136
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
You're conflating lots of different things, and jumping all over the place a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurly View Post
But I thought feminism was all about "equality". Why, if she *LOVES* you, then she should "understand" and be "thankful" that you're being a responsible father to take care of your kids.
My wife married me knowing that I was paying a sizeable portion of my income in child support, and that I would be doing so for the next dozen or so years. She's proud of me for taking care of my kids.

Quote:
Yet when we lust after a young, beautiful woman, we're "pigs".
There's a difference between noticing a beautiful woman and acting like a pig.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:11   #137
Gray_Rider
Senior Member
 
Gray_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville Fla.
Posts: 1,430
Blog Entries: 1
[QUOTE=devildog2067;20001786]As you point out, that's not for this thread. I'll leave it at this nugget

Yes please show me a place time or situation where slaves of any race, creed, color, were treated with more fairness than in the antibellem South. Including the sainted north.


Still waiting.

Gray_Rider
__________________
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862!
Gray_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:12   #138
silentpoet
Senior Member
 
silentpoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: This Old Caddy
Posts: 15,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurly View Post
And until then...keep it wrapped!
Sadly don't have to. But it is amazing how much debt you can knock out when you don't spend it on a woman.
silentpoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:20   #139
Antipaladin
Member
 
Antipaladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
One of my best friends just finished up 25 years on the job working 60-80 hours a week the whole time. Patrol, road jobs, details...whatever it took to put a roof over his family's head and food on the table. His wife never worked a day in the marriage. He was looking forward to finally being able to spend quality time with his 4 still high school and younger kids and wife. Oh no. The week after he puts in his retirement papers, the witch files for divorce. Takes half his pension and 48% of the new crappy job's takehome. He lives in a ****ty studio apartment. He lost his house because she stopped paying the mortgage and bills 6 months earlier knowing she was leaving...then moves in with the boyfriend immediately living rent free. She also took his truck in the divorce and gave it to her boyfriend. I don't think he's getting married again.

Last edited by Antipaladin; 02-20-2013 at 22:23..
Antipaladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:24   #140
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Rider View Post
Yes please show me a place time or situation where slaves of any race, creed, color, were treated with more fairness than in the antibellem South.
Uhh... they were still SLAVES. How do you not get this? It matters not whether people were treated worse elsewhere in the world. They were still property. Owning people is wrong.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:32   #141
HollowHead
Firm member
 
HollowHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the buffalo roam
Posts: 23,058


[quote=Gray_Rider;20013542]
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
As you point out, that's not for this thread. I'll leave it at this nugget

Yes please show me a place time or situation where slaves of any race, creed, color, were treated with more fairness than in the antibellem South. Including the sainted north.


Still waiting.

Gray_Rider
Benefits provided as the true measure of worth and station? You can't possilbly be serious. HH
__________________
Never trust a pastor with a day job.

Sent from two coffee cans connected by a string.
HollowHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:33   #142
Antipaladin
Member
 
Antipaladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
There is no real freedom, only the illusion of free will.
Antipaladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:41   #143
HollowHead
Firm member
 
HollowHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the buffalo roam
Posts: 23,058


[quote=Gray_Rider;20013542]
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
As you point out, that's not for this thread. I'll leave it at this nugget

Yes please show me a place time or situation where slaves of any race, creed, color, were treated with more fairness than in the antibellem South. Including the sainted north.


Still waiting.

Gray_Rider
A slave treated as royalty is far below a free man with nothing. HH
__________________
Never trust a pastor with a day job.

Sent from two coffee cans connected by a string.
HollowHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:42   #144
Woofie
CLM Number 293
Disirregardless
 
Woofie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 9,877
Send a message via AIM to Woofie
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post

There's a difference between noticing a beautiful woman and acting like a pig.
Based solely on my observations of many of my female friends and acquaintances the difference is whether the woman is single or in a relationship.

Any nice gesture or compliment made by a male seems to be seen as "trying to get a piece" by my friends in relationships, but is considered sweet by the single friends.
__________________
"Turns oit i had irrisputable proof i was out of the country" - youngdocglock

"I don't need to figure probabilities, and I don't need facts." - JBnTx

"Maybe they should drink like Woofie and come up with pure brilliance." - OXCOPS
Woofie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 22:45   #145
Woofie
CLM Number 293
Disirregardless
 
Woofie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 9,877
Send a message via AIM to Woofie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Rider View Post

Yes please show me a place time or situation where slaves of any race, creed, color, were treated with more fairness than in the antibellem South. Including the sainted north.


Still waiting.

Gray_Rider
You are nearly incapable of holding a conversation that doesn't involve praising the institution of slavery.
__________________
"Turns oit i had irrisputable proof i was out of the country" - youngdocglock

"I don't need to figure probabilities, and I don't need facts." - JBnTx

"Maybe they should drink like Woofie and come up with pure brilliance." - OXCOPS
Woofie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 23:57   #146
Gray_Rider
Senior Member
 
Gray_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville Fla.
Posts: 1,430
Blog Entries: 1
Gentlemen,

Where is a word of praise in any of my posts concerning this matter? All I have stated was fact. No "praise". Only it was used for thousands of years across all points of the globe. It built this nation when nothing else could have or did. There was never a uprising during the war that would have easily destroyed the CSA overnight. And only the Confederacy is ever blamed for it. You have not proved me wrong on one point, and HH, can YOU possibly be serious? Amazing how you people keep missing the point. But I guess that IS the point.

Gray_Rider
__________________
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862!
Gray_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 00:03   #147
Smacktard
Senior Member
 
Smacktard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,151


Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipaladin View Post
There is no real freedom, only the illusion of free will.


Sad but true.


.....
__________________
Did I mention there are at least 7 billion opinions on earth, of which yours is only one?

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
- Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany.
Smacktard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 00:16   #148
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Rider View Post
Where is a word of praise in any of my posts concerning this matter?
Seriously, you are a nutbag.

You've made statements like these:

Quote:
The slaves themselves were generally well treated
that are not only false, they are paradoxical. It is not possible to keep someone as a slave and simultaneously treat them well.

In fact, going back to some of your posts from 2-3 years ago, I see that you're actually quoting yourself. You posted these words at least once before, in June of 2010:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Rider View Post
Black slaves (were on the whole) treated better here than at any time in history or on any other contenient on the face of the earth including their beloved Africa.
You really, truly somehow don't get it.

It doesn't matter that slavery was practiced by other cultures throughout history. It doesn't matter that slavery was vital to the economic development of the United States. I agree with you that both of those are facts, but they don't change the underlying truth that slavery was wrong. There is no defending it. There is nothing that makes it "less bad." Treating another human being like property was, and is, evil.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 00:23   #149
Gryff
Senior Member
 
Gryff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 262
Send a message via AIM to Gryff
Fifteen glorious years of marriage so far.

As far as I can tell, it comes down to respect. I respect her as a friend and equal, and she treats me the same way. Occasionally we fight, or act like ****s to each other, but we always snap out of it within hours, and then address why we acted the way we did.

She never asks me to be different than who I am, but she makes me want to be a better man.

I'd chew my shooting hand off before I would lose this woman.
__________________
My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions.

Last edited by Gryff; 02-21-2013 at 00:23..
Gryff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 00:48   #150
Gray_Rider
Senior Member
 
Gray_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville Fla.
Posts: 1,430
Blog Entries: 1
HH, what is it that I don't get? Prove my statement wrong. Slavery worked for centuries across the world for tens of centuries. Not pretty. Not nice. BUT!!!~ Essential for tens of centuries for every culture on earth!! Sorry AS hell! Get over it! Slaves were treated better in the South than anyplace else in history. PROVE TO ME WHERE IT WAS BETTER for any slaves anywhere! EVER! Just prove that and drop all the moral crap that it was eeeevile! Stop blaming the Confederacy for it, and giving every other society and country in the world a pass including Africa and the sainted north as a whole. They were and still are better off than in Africa. They (blacks) are to this day better off here than in ANY part of the world! In every way, shape, matter, and form! G.T.H.O.I.!

It was essential. It worked. Tens of millions are living in freedom today because of it. Hundreds of millions before them lived in more freedom than they would have known anywhere else on the face of the globe. IT WORKED, and it cost this nation well over one half million lives for Lincoln to force it to end before its time. Its forced ending has cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars since and Lincoln and his band of cutthroat murders are hailed as saviours. Plus 150 years of racial trouble.

And you are still not happy!

Gray_Rider
__________________
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862!

Last edited by Gray_Rider; 02-21-2013 at 01:09..
Gray_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:38.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,329
381 Members
948 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42