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Old 02-19-2013, 23:50   #221
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Originally Posted by seanmac45 View Post
Aside from being grammatically a mess, your diatribe does not answer the question.

Why punish the cops who do not make the idiotic laws?
So the politically appointed hacks calling themselves cops like Gary McCarthy will have to go back to their teets and tell them they are no longer able to outgun the subjects who stand in the way of a police state.

Many cops have their heads on straight, and everyone knows this. But street guys don't usually have permission to speak publicly on political issues. So the admins who owe their jobs to powergrubbing mayors get to go on TV and make claims that the rights of citizens should be revoked and granted by internet opinion polls because that's what the mayor told them to do.

If a "weapon of war" is too dangerous for a peaceful man to use to protect his home, it certainly has NO business being wielded by those that would enforce the law upon us. This is not "screwing" with cops. It is simply a refusal to treat them as a privileged class of citizenry.

The *probability* a cop will need to use lethal force may be greater than mine, but the *severity of need* once lethal force is called for is equal for all men, regardless of who signs your paycheck. If probability was the measure by which we assign need, than cops in places like Newtown would not even be carrying guns.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:01   #222
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Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
I read a headline that several firearm/accessory manufacturers (Olympic arms and larue included) were supposedly refusing to sell to cops in states where politicians are passing stricter gun laws.

Is this true?

Why the hell are they punishing the cops who have nothing to do with these political games?
Because most police unions throw their support behind gun-grabber initiatives BECAUSE there is always a LEO exemption. When individual cops start letting their unions know that Brady Bunch-supported/initiated laws aren't acceptable, then they'll start getting sympathy from the firearm companies that are defending RKBA as well as those of us who aren't treated as an equal-but-not-really class.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:31   #223
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Police enforce the laws that politicians make, many are not on the side of the people, but on the side of the government. If the police are on the side of the people then they should come out and say they won't enforce the anti 2nd amendment laws and in that case the companies should continue to sell to them.

Regardless, police should not have access to weapons that the people do not have access to, LEO are still civilians and should not be militarized.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:49   #224
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Police enforce the laws that politicians make, many are not on the side of the people, but on the side of the government. If the police are on the side of the people then they should come out and say they won't enforce the anti 2nd amendment laws and in that case the companies should continue to sell to them.

Regardless, police should not have access to weapons that the people do not have access to, LEO are still civilians and should not be militarized.
Okay, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, show me a single verified police officer on this forum who has said they are anti-Second Amendment, or will come take your guns or will sit outside your house at night like the boogeyman.

And don't even get me started on the so-called "militarization" of the police...
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:55   #225
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Okay, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, show me a single verified police officer on this forum who has said they are anti-Second Amendment, or will come take your guns or will sit outside your house at night like the boogeyman.

And don't even get me started on the so-called "militarization" of the police...
I don't frequent many parts of this board aside from the AK forum, so I can't. In addition to that, I highly doubt there is very many anti-2nd amendment cops using a firearm enthusiast forum. We know that there have been some big PDs that have straight up come out against gun rights, Chicago PD and NYPD being the big 2.

The police do not need to be militarized to do their job. I see Sheriffs and SWAT teams with APCs and I think abuse of power and misuse of tax payer money.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:37   #226
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1. Because they enforce them.
2. Because their political groups support them.
3. They appear for photo ops with politicians who do write the laws.
4. They should not be above the laws they enforce.
The us/them attitude is nauseating. I know more cops willing to stand up and lose their jobs over your rights than you have any idea. You don't understand what allies you have in LE, at least until you start the jackboot bull****. Cops I know have spoken out about this issue at greater risk to their jobs than any non LE I know.

As for your points:
1. I started on the job prior to the end of the last AWB. Guess how many guns w/ flash hiders I took or +10 rnd mags?? Zero. We also have an adultery law on our books. Guess how many people I've arrested for that? Don't think we are a bunch of lemmings that just shrug our shoulders and violate our oaths on a whim from some ********* politician.

2. I don't know about the big union agencies, but my political group consists of ~50 officers and a Chief with more integrity than you could find at a Boy Scout Jamboree. Everyone else can go to hell.

3. Who appears in the photo ops? The chiefs of a few of the largest cities in the country who also happen to have the worst violent crime in the country. Those puppets don't speak for all of law enforcement or even the majority of their departments. They are political figureheads who do political bidding and the state of their cities shows it.

4. We are all in the same boat together. Just because there may be a job related need to have access to something Joe on the street doesn't have or to run code through a red light on occasion doesn't put cops above anyone else. It's part of the job and a part that could make the difference between life/death for you or a loved one someday. Those things also happen to put a lot of guys at greater personal liability than you have to worry about at the office.

This attitude sounds just like the liberals who are *****ing/moaning about why anyone needs an "assault" weapon. They think gun owners will wield weapons as they themselves would and they fear the result. Too many people think all cops ride around with a Napoleon complex, sitting on a pedestal above the citizenry because if they had that "power", that's what they would do. Reality is 99% of the guys work their asses off for little or no thanks and consider their risks, sacrifices and meager pay to be worth the personal satisfaction found in serving their communities and those who cannot protect nor serve themselves.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:38   #227
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I don't frequent many parts of this board aside from the AK forum, so I can't. In addition to that, I highly doubt there is very many anti-2nd amendment cops using a firearm enthusiast forum. We know that there have been some big PDs that have straight up come out against gun rights, Chicago PD and NYPD being the big 2.

The police do not need to be militarized to do their job. I see Sheriffs and SWAT teams with APCs and I think abuse of power and misuse of tax payer money.
Okay, have you seen the 13,000 officers of CPD all in lockstep saying they don't support the 2nd Amendment? How about the 40,000 officers of the NYPD? No, you've seen a couple high ranking puppets in each department parroting what their mayors said so they can keep their job. So before you go slinging mud against a department, do a little critical thinking on the subject.

As for SWAT teams and APCs? I'm sorry you don't agree with them, but how would YOU have handled something like the Dorner shootout with nothing more than your spiffy class A uniform and pistol? I'll defer to your tactical expertise on the subject...

OR you can admit a miracle happened, and your vocal chords moved to your rectum, cuz you're talking out your ass.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:51   #228
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Originally Posted by HWI View Post
I don't frequent many parts of this board aside from the AK forum, so I can't. In addition to that, I highly doubt there is very many anti-2nd amendment cops using a firearm enthusiast forum. We know that there have been some big PDs that have straight up come out against gun rights, Chicago PD and NYPD being the big 2.

The police do not need to be militarized to do their job. I see Sheriffs and SWAT teams with APCs and I think abuse of power and misuse of tax payer money.
Two things.

The APC's are free from uncle sugar.


Do you want the officers to just get shot up by the guy in the building with the high powered rifle.


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Old 02-20-2013, 05:31   #229
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That is interesting. Will people who are victims of violent crime in the "no gun" states be able to sue the state for not being allowed to protect themselves?
I would argue that by forcing people to give up their means of protection the government is creating a special relationship with everyone they disarm.

I don't know if I would win that argument, but I'd make it.


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Old 02-20-2013, 05:47   #230
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I tried to find them, but I'm not going through every post in every thread since Sandy Hook to find them. If I could, I would point out the Troll that posted it. But I'm not because I can't find it. It may have been edited. Who knows. But it was there.
It may have been a troll, but it wasn't a cop here. I've been a member for 9 years, and I've never seen a real cop post anything even remotely close to that.


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Old 02-20-2013, 05:57   #231
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The police do not need to be militarized to do their job. I see Sheriffs and SWAT teams with APCs and I think abuse of power and misuse of tax payer money.
You condemn because you don't understand.

You "think" because you don't know.

If you would like to start a new thread, to ask why the things you mentioned are needed, I'm sure you will be able to find plenty of guys who will explain.

If you actually take a moment or two to think about, you might even be able to rationalize it yourself, without even having to start a thread.



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Old 02-20-2013, 06:15   #232
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Yes.

The SCOTUS came about when a family tried suing a police department after their daughter was murdered by her ex-husband, who she had a restraining order against. The contention was that they expected the police to protect her.

The ruling was that there is no Constitutional requirement for the police to protect a single individual over society as a whole, unless a previous special relationship exists. We serve the people, not a person.

The ruling was not the "cops get to thumb out noses at anyone who calls for help, and ignore them" that people like you make it out to be.

As a practical matter, we cannot be everywhere all the time, and protect everyone. So if something happens to you, you don't get to sue the cops, because we couldn't be there to stop it.

That's what the ruling was about.




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I was involved in an incident in the early 90's where I and my doorman were getting the crap beat out of us by 8 guys. 2 town cops pulled up in their car, and then left us to get beat up even more.

After we got out of the ER we went to the police department to file a complaint. The cop a the desk refused to discuss the incident with us and we were told to leave. I figured I had already gotten one ass kicking that night, and didn't really need another one, so we left. We tried setting up an appointment with the police cheif, but he would not meet with us.

My quesstion is this. If 2 cops are not held responsible for leaving people to be beaten, what kind of message does that give the public?
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:02   #233
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I was involved in an incident in the early 90's where I and my doorman were getting the crap beat out of us by 8 guys. 2 town cops pulled up in their car, and then left us to get beat up even more.

After we got out of the ER we went to the police department to file a complaint. The cop a the desk refused to discuss the incident with us and we were told to leave. I figured I had already gotten one ass kicking that night, and didn't really need another one, so we left. We tried setting up an appointment with the police cheif, but he would not meet with us.

My quesstion is this. If 2 cops are not held responsible for leaving people to be beaten, what kind of message does that give the public?
clancy, where did this happen?

What led up to the fight?

Was it right for them to not intervene? Not in my opinion.

Give us more about the incident, please.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:29   #234
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I was involved in an incident in the early 90's where I and my doorman were getting the crap beat out of us by 8 guys. 2 town cops pulled up in their car, and then left us to get beat up even more.

After we got out of the ER we went to the police department to file a complaint. The cop a the desk refused to discuss the incident with us and we were told to leave. I figured I had already gotten one ass kicking that night, and didn't really need another one, so we left. We tried setting up an appointment with the police cheif, but he would not meet with us.

My quesstion is this. If 2 cops are not held responsible for leaving people to be beaten, what kind of message does that give the public?
I don't know. You didn't share enough info to make any informed decision.


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Old 02-20-2013, 08:53   #235
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We know that there have been some big PDs that have straight up come out against gun rights, Chicago PD and NYPD being the big 2.
You KNOW that for a fact, do you? The Chicago police SUPERINTENDENT has come out against concealed carry. Do you think that translates to the entire department?

Because the Chicago Police Sergeants have gone on record with the state legislation SUPPORTING concealed carry. And joining them in going on that record is the Chicago Police Lieutenants Association.


I would recommend checking on little, pesky things like facts and details before making such declarative statements.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:41   #236
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You KNOW that for a fact, do you? The Chicago police SUPERINTENDENT has come out against concealed carry. Do you think that translates to the entire department?

Because the Chicago Police Sergeants have gone on record with the state legislation SUPPORTING concealed carry. And joining them in going on that record is the Chicago Police Lieutenants Association.


I would recommend checking on little, pesky things like facts and details before making such declarative statements.
April, 2011... Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police voted to support concealed carry
Quote:
In so doing, the IACP joins the Chicago Police Sergeants Association, who expressed their support for Illinois HB 148, the "Family and Personal Protection Act," when it came up for a committee vote on March 8. The Illinois Sheriffs' Association has supported concealed carry since 2009. The Illinois State Police have taken a neutral stance.
Chicago Cops Come Out for Concealed Carry
Cop Talk

Facts...
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:54   #237
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I applaud principled companies in the firearms industry for making a lawful stand against tyranny. The only thing that makes us different from the rest of the world is that our system does not relegate ordinary citizens to second or third class status. Consider one of the influential people at the forefront of the effort to disarm America. By the standards of our Founders, he would be considered a tyrant. He used wealth and influence to negate a term limit law for the mayoral office of NYC that he might have even been involved in establishing-----I am not sure.

If free, law-abiding, competent citizens are debarred the use of assault-style rifles and high capacity magazines then no one should be privy to their use. Criminals have never cared, do not care now and will never care about obeying the law. If they did, they wouldn't be criminals in the first place.

I am all for greater scrutiny of citizens with regards to gun purchases. I am all for requiring background checks on all transfers private or commercial outside of family heirlooms. I do not think anyone legally prescribed certain classes of drugs should be able to own a firearm. In fact I am certain they should not be.

Certain firearms manufacturers are not attacking our men and women in blue. They are fighting to stand in the gap against politicians who think they give people rights when in fact these freedoms are endowed by God and recognized by our foundation for self-governance.

If you are upset with what is happening then make a sensible, lawful and principled stand for the tax payers who provide the infrastructure for you to pursue you passion in the first place. We did build this-----not the government.

In the heat of this debate, don't forget those currently in power seek to divide us. They purpose to divide and conquer. Whether you agree or disagree with me, I think you will agree we all need to a step back and take a deep breath. Look at the news cycle. For the last four years, we have been kept in edge constantly. Make no mistake this is by design from people who do not believe we are exceptional----people who want us no different than other socialist Euro States. We cannot allow ourselves to be their pawns until this passes.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:55   #238
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Thanks for covering my back. My Google-fu was weak this morning trying to come up with that.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:03   #239
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In other words, the politicians are pitting the rank and file LEO's against the average Joe. Let's not lose sight of this.

The first rule of bird dog training: Be smarter than the dog.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:24   #240
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Thanks for covering my back. My Google-fu was weak this morning trying to come up with that.
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