[BEER]

i don't come in here often but i figure this is the best place to ask.

who defines "evil"?

we as human beings define child molesters as evil right?

but religions the world over have leaders of their various faiths molesting children, and those religious leaders are not struck down by God.

we consider violent criminals that kill innocents as evil, yet God dosen't strike them down.

i get the whole "free will" thing, but at some point there has to be a limit right?

so if God cast out satan for merely questioning him, why wouldn't he strike down those that would not only cause harm to us his greatest creation, but especially the weakest of us the children?

who decides what "evil" truly means? us, or God? and which is correct?

[Gunhaver]

Evil is just what we call it when someone gives us the **** end of the stick. I once watched a leopard grab a monkey and take it up into a tree to dine right in front of the other monkeys. The reaction of those other monkeys left little doubt that they considered that leopard to be evil. But the leopard was just taking care of business and doing what he was supposed to do. Sucks to be the monkey.

We need for there to be a difference between us and other animals but nobody can come up with a definite difference between us and all the rest of the animals so we invent things unprovable like the soul or spirit or god to set us apart.

Child molesters? We call that evil and we know the damage that does to some kids but for most of human history that wasn't the way it worked. Most societies would sell their pre-teen daughters to the highest bidder because the only value they saw in girls was as sex toys and breeding stock for someone else. The damage done to kids is only in relation to modern day society (barring any physical harm) and it isn't even across the board. Plenty of underage people get touched by weirdos and suffer no ill effect. It does negatively effect enough kids in a way that makes it harder for them to comfortably live in a modern society where they are more than breeding stock and playthings so we as a society prohibit that and rightfully so.

Who defines evil? The people that you happen to be standing around at the moment. One guy that frequents this forum actually thinks that the government should execute drug and alcohol users. To him that's actually less evil that a government that has the power to take lives based on arbitrary consumption of random substances. Go figure.

[BEER]

that's what baffles me though. "evil' is arbitrary depending on who you associate with, and certain circumstances right?

i mean if i stand alone i set some random kid on fire that would make me evil, but if i did it surrounded by like minded individuals and that same child was set on fire so i could get to his/her dad who was a known bad guy that's no longer evil, that's just collateral damage.

i mean how is the judgement made?

[Gunhaver]

The judgment is made by judges. Usually 12 of them. Right and wrong are as arbitrary as who those judges are at any given time.

How else can we figure this out? 7,000,000,000 medium to large predators that have found numerous loopholes to the laws of natural selection that keep their population in check. Most of them are extreme narcissists that believe they are right about everything and have countless BS rationalizations floating around their heads that convince them that they're better than most. Most of them want access to limited resources to the point that they believe they should be in charge of it all or at least in charge of as much as they can grab in their lifetime and all of their offspring's lifetimes.

Basically, we're playing the same game all animals play. Gimmie gimmie and Eff you all. Frankly, I think any other outcome would be surprising, but not so much this one.

[Vic Hays]

Morality is what defines evil. That which is not moral and good is evil.

There is a moral law which can be found in the Bible Exodus chapter 20 that was not written by man. It is a perfect law because it was written by God himself.

Without the moral law all there is is a sliding slippery slope of depraved behavior.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

[DonGlock26]

Originally Posted by BEER

i don't come in here often but i figure this is the best place to ask.

who defines "evil"?

We do at a personal level, and society and institutions do at a social level.

[hooligan74]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

Morality is what defines evil. That which is not moral and good is evil.

There is a moral law which can be found in the Bible Exodus chapter 20 that was not written by man. It is a perfect law because it was written by God himself.

Without the moral law all there is is a sliding slippery slope of depraved behavior.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

What about the Code of Hammurabi or the Code of Ur-Nammu? Those predate the bible by hundreds of years and are an example of moral laws.

There is no requisite for a diety for there to be a mutually agreed upon set of morals within a given society.

[volsbear]

I do. I define evil. It's me. I'm all over it.

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by hooligan74

What about the Code of Hammurabi or the Code of Ur-Nammu? Those predate the bible by hundreds of years and are an example of moral laws.

There is no requisite for a diety for there to be a mutually agreed upon set of morals within a given society.

How much influence have the Ten Commandments had versus those others?

Morality is about absolutes. If there is a Truth there must be absolute truths, right?

God is the absolute.

John 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

Morality is about absolutes. If there is a Truth there must be absolute truths, right?

God is the absolute.

John 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

Forbidding slavery and rape didn't make God's Top Ten (in fact they get a bit of a nod), but Heaven forbid we covet our neighbor's ass.

-ArtificialGrape

[steveksux]

Originally Posted by BEER

i don't come in here often but i figure this is the best place to ask.

who defines "evil"?

we as human beings define child molesters as evil right?

but religions the world over have leaders of their various faiths molesting children, and those religious leaders are not struck down by God.

we consider violent criminals that kill innocents as evil, yet God dosen't strike them down.

i get the whole "free will" thing, but at some point there has to be a limit right?

so if God cast out satan for merely questioning him, why wouldn't he strike down those that would not only cause harm to us his greatest creation, but especially the weakest of us the children?

who decides what "evil" truly means? us, or God? and which is correct?

You of all people should know that evil its defined in the Code of Hammurabeer.

Randy

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

[hooligan74]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

...Morality is about absolutes...

Nope, can't agree with you there. Morality is absolutely fluid and dependent on a given society.

We view slavery as wildly immoral now, but the Old Testament was A-OK with slavery - just as an example.

In the USA eating dogs would be considered VERY immoral, in some Asian countries it is completely accepted and normal.

Morality is NOT absolute.

Being that the Code of Hammurabi is VERY similar to the 10 Commandments, I would argue that the 10 Commandments were nothing more than a recording of the morality of the day - most likely inspired, in large part, by Hammurabi's code.

[TX OMFS]

Originally Posted by BEER

i don't come in here often but i figure this is the best place to ask.

who defines "evil"?

we as human beings define child molesters as evil right?

but religions the world over have leaders of their various faiths molesting children, and those religious leaders are not struck down by God.

we consider violent criminals that kill innocents as evil, yet God dosen't strike them down.

i get the whole "free will" thing, but at some point there has to be a limit right?

so if God cast out satan for merely questioning him, why wouldn't he strike down those that would not only cause harm to us his greatest creation, but especially the weakest of us the children?

who decides what "evil" truly means? us, or God? and which is correct?

Good thoughts Beer. The Biblical answer is that all men are evil and evil is not arbitrary. There may be degrees of evil but we're all in the same boat. One single sin is enough to seperate us from God.

Following that line of thinking, it's hard to ask God to rain down fire on certain sins while ignoring our own. If I want all the child-touching clergy to die now why wouldn't God also take me out?

God has ordained government to handle evil on this earth for now while he gives us individually more time to repent of our sins. Eventually, though, all sin will be judged and telling God you were better than this person or that person isn't going to work.

The question is, how do we deal with our own sin? Sin leads to death. One man, Jesus Christ, lived without sin as he was the Son of God. Hard to understand but he was completely human and completely Diety. He did not deserve to die and death couldn't hold him. When he died he paid the price for our sins.

[Lone Wolf8634]

Evil is situational. What is evil and wrong now can change to right and necessary with a simple change in your situation.

[hogfish]

I was told by a very faithful and indoctrinated Catholic that Evil is simply the absense of God.

[Tilley]

Originally Posted by BEER

who defines "evil"?

<-------------me

[volsbear]

Originally Posted by Tilley

<-------------me

No way I called it on page one.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

[fowl intent]

It's really rather simple. Evil, at least in the context of human evil, is acting with total disregard of the consequences to others, to satisfy one's own wants/desires. I don't argue with the idea that the 10 commandments (or the earlier codified "laws") benefit human society. I just argue with the idea that they are God given.

[Tilley]

Originally Posted by volsbear

No way I called it on page one.

Duhhhhhhh!

You gotta be quick here!

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

How much influence have the Ten Commandments had versus those others?

Morality is about absolutes. If there is a Truth there must be absolute truths, right?

God is the absolute.

John 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

You act as if before the 10 commandments was handed down nobody had a problem with being murdered, having someone fool around with their wife/wives, having their stuff stolen or people thinking about stealing their stuff, or people lying about them. These are all things that people have always has an aversion to and just because someone listed most folk's major gripes about other folks and piled on a few rules about god does not make it divine insight.

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by fowl intent

It's really rather simple. Evil, at least in the context of human evil, is acting with total disregard of the consequences to others, to satisfy one's own wants/desires. I don't argue with the idea that the 10 commandments (or the earlier codified "laws") benefit human society. I just argue with the idea that they are God given.

Actually you are somewhat in agreement with the Bible. The basis for God's moral law and the teachings of the Bible is loving God and loving others as yourself.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by Gunhaver

You act as if before the 10 commandments was handed down nobody had a problem with being murdered, having someone fool around with their wife/wives, having their stuff stolen or people thinking about stealing their stuff, or people lying about them. These are all things that people have always has an aversion to and just because someone listed most folk's major gripes about other folks and piled on a few rules about god does not make it divine insight.

You missed the first four Commandments.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

You missed the first four Commandments.

In a system of morality, I doubt anybody would really miss those -- they make God come across a bit too needy.

-ArtificialGrape

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

Actually you are somewhat in agreement with the Bible. The basis for God's moral law and the teachings of the Bible is loving God and loving others as yourself.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Reciprocal morality, which is what you're discussing, also predates Jesus' version of the Golden Rule.

-ArtificialGrape

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

In a system of morality, I doubt anybody would really miss those -- they make God come across a bit too needy.

-ArtificialGrape

I am the needy one. These laws have always existed because they are a transcript of God's character.

God knows that we will be subverted if we follow other Gods and make idols of them. Using His name in vain will lead to disrespecting Him. Forgetting His Sabbath leads to forgetting about His creation. What we dwell upon changes us. I would certainly like to be more like Jesus in thought word and action.

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.