GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2013, 08:06   #326
Glockdude1
CLM Number 185
Federal Member
 
Glockdude1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Beaumont,Texas
Posts: 26,629


Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
If you can hold a Glock with one hand, you can easily rack the slide on just about anything, belt, table edge...


Maybe, with no fully loaded magazine in place.......
__________________
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
Glockdude1 is online now  
Old 02-18-2013, 16:19   #327
Peace Warrior
CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
 
Peace Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: With the other 7,999,999
Posts: 26,188
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laslo View Post
... In the unfortunate event that you are attacked you will be taken off guard in such a way that your reaction time and what you do to react, might make the difference between life and death.

Do you feel good with that?

Laslo
Great post Laslo, we learned it as being called, "retaking the initiative."
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 02-18-2013 at 16:23..
Peace Warrior is offline  
Old 02-18-2013, 18:15   #328
SevenSixtyTwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tampa Bay Area Fl
Posts: 2,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockdude1 View Post


Maybe, with no fully loaded magazine in place.......
Why would you say that? A loaded mag isn't going to change the spring rate of the slide. You might find yourself in a position to need to rack a round single handed some day.




SevenSixtyTwo is offline  
Old 02-18-2013, 18:24   #329
SevenSixtyTwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tampa Bay Area Fl
Posts: 2,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Please try it sometime... and remember, for the purpose of training, you cannot use your non-dominant hand or arm in any way. Now, try training to put one in the tube with your non-dominant hand only. Remember, use only your non-dominant hand and do not use your dominant hand or arm in any way.

If you're honest, you'll admit that having to first un-holster your gun, and then having to chamber a round would take way too much time given the right "manure"HTF circumstances.

Simply put, if you CC a Glock with a holster, lock and load.
I've never said otherwise. If I have, please quote. On the other hand, if you don't have time to chamber a round, there's an even better chance you've lost your chance to even draw from concealment. SA fail. I carry C1 but, I also practice for the possibility of having to chamber a round single handed. In reality, the perfect scenario is highly unlikely. Drawing from concealment is our biggest obstacle.
SevenSixtyTwo is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:13   #330
Peace Warrior
CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
 
Peace Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: With the other 7,999,999
Posts: 26,188
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
Awesomeness.

Thanks for posting.
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales
Peace Warrior is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:15   #331
Peace Warrior
CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
 
Peace Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: With the other 7,999,999
Posts: 26,188
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
I've never said otherwise. If I have, please quote. On the other hand, if you don't have time to chamber a round, there's an even better chance you've lost your chance to even draw from concealment. SA fail. I carry C1 but, I also practice for the possibility of having to chamber a round single handed. In reality, the perfect scenario is highly unlikely. Drawing from concealment is our biggest obstacle.
Good for you. It's been a year or so, but I also train to reload, rack, and fire single handed, ambidextrously.

It just makes sense. You know?
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales
Peace Warrior is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 07:59   #332
vandros
10mm fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: southwest
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
Why would you say that? A loaded mag isn't going to change the spring rate of the slide. You might find yourself in a position to need to rack a round single handed some day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHEZrbv3fvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMsAvWOEj-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUkiu-oiq0A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Zbm0CO7yI
Interesting vids. The real worst-case scenario is when you have type-3 malfunction (spent case in the chamber, and another round fails to feed, jamming into the spent case) when operating the weapon one handed. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out how to clear this malfunction one handed... It seems if this happens during a fire fight, you are pretty much f&^*ed!
__________________
glock 4 gun; strider 4 knife

Last edited by vandros; 02-19-2013 at 08:00..
vandros is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:40   #333
PhotoFeller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Midwest and south
Posts: 2,687
Blog Entries: 2
I have revealed that I prefer to carry C3, and I often don't carry a firearm at all. My explanation for these choices is that my lifestyle (retired, gated community, low-crime town) allows me to stay away from places/areas where assaults and armed robberies happen; the exceptions would be stopping points while traveling, late-night visits of necessity to the drug store, etc.

For those who CC every place, every day and choose C1, are there any circumstances where you would feel comfortable unarmed? Are there any places where you could turn off situational awareness and eliminate the tension of being constantly prepared for attack?

Since most who always CC feel a low probability of attack still doesn't allow for being comfortable without a weapon, I'm wondering why so many people in the general public, including nearly everyone I've known over 70+ years, see no need to be armed in everyday life. Where is the disconnect?

I understand there are dangerous places in cities everywhere. I realize there can be random acts of violence in churches and other safe havens. What I don't understand is why so few see the need to be armed always while so many never take self defense measures beyond locking their doors.

Is the disconnect the result of naïveté among the masses? Is my perception of relative safety in my life a matter of self deception? Is continuous carry in C1 and constant readiness for combat, including preparation for operating a gun after sustaining wounds, a prescription for every sensible person? Or, are different levels of SD preparedness reasonable based on the circumstances of one's life? I believe this is a relevant aspect of the C1-C3 discussion.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 02-19-2013 at 11:41..
PhotoFeller is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:59   #334
GIG4FUN
Senior Member
 
GIG4FUN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
I have revealed that I prefer to carry C3, and I often don't carry a firearm at all. My explanation for these choices is that my lifestyle (retired, gated community, low-crime town) allows me to stay away from places/areas where assaults and armed robberies happen; the exceptions would be stopping points while traveling, late-night visits of necessity to the drug store, etc.

For those who CC every place, every day and choose C1, are there any circumstances where you would feel comfortable unarmed? Are there any places where you could turn off situational awareness and eliminate the tension of being constantly prepared for attack?

Since most who always CC feel a low probability of attack still doesn't allow for being comfortable without a weapon, I'm wondering why so many people in the general public, including nearly everyone I've known over 70+ years, see no need to be armed in everyday life. Where is the disconnect?

I understand there are dangerous places in cities everywhere. I realize there can be random acts of violence in churches and other safe havens. What I don't understand is why so few see the need to be armed always while so many never take self defense measures beyond locking their doors.

Is the disconnect the result of naïveté among the masses? Is my perception of relative safety in my life a matter of self deception? Is continuous carry in C1, constant readiness for combat including preparation for operating a gun after sustaining wounds a prescription for every sensible person? Or are different levels of SD preparedness reasonable based on the circumstances of one's life? I believe this is a relevant aspect of the C1-C3 discussion.
Fantastic words. I commend your reflection and I share this thinking as well.
Great post in my view.
BTW - I've carried since 1978. (I'm a bit older as well... Chuckle)


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Christian strong willed old man...
G17G4 G22G4 G23G4 +--> G32 barrel
Colt M4 w/EOTech HHS1- SA M1 (Garand & Carbine)
SArmory XDm.45compact - H&K .45c / NRA member
S&W & Browning & Ruger & Winchester & Remington
GIG4FUN is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:12   #335
VinnieG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
I have revealed that I prefer to carry C3, and I often don't carry a firearm at all. My explanation for these choices is that my lifestyle (retired, gated community, low-crime town) allows me to stay away from places/areas where assaults and armed robberies happen; the exceptions would be stopping points while traveling, late-night visits of necessity to the drug store, etc.

For those who CC every place, every day and choose C1, are there any circumstances where you would feel comfortable unarmed? Are there any places where you could turn off situational awareness and eliminate the tension of being constantly prepared for attack?

Since most who always CC feel a low probability of attack still doesn't allow for being comfortable without a weapon, I'm wondering why so many people in the general public, including nearly everyone I've known over 70+ years, see no need to be armed in everyday life. Where is the disconnect?

I understand there are dangerous places in cities everywhere. I realize there can be random acts of violence in churches and other safe havens. What I don't understand is why so few see the need to be armed always while so many never take self defense measures beyond locking their doors.

Is the disconnect the result of naïveté among the masses? Is my perception of relative safety in my life a matter of self deception? Is continuous carry in C1 and constant readiness for combat, including preparation for operating a gun after sustaining wounds, a prescription for every sensible person? Or, are different levels of SD preparedness reasonable based on the circumstances of one's life? I believe this is a relevant aspect of the C1-C3 discussion.
To give you my answers to some of your questions.
I am an LEO and always carry. When I go places that I can't carry I hate it and feel naked.
I live in a low crime area also, a town of 190 people, and I rarely go to the city. The main reason that I carry all of the time is because I refuse to be a helpless victim, no matter what the chance is of that happening.
Also as an LEO if a shooting would happen in a place that I'm at, I'm going to get involved, armed or not. So I wanna give myself the best possible chance of survival and victory.
There are a couple places that I feel comfortable unarmed, but I carry anyway. One is my dads house and the other is my inlaws house. I can let my guard down when there are dogs around to tell me if something is wrong.
There is a good chance that I feel the way that I do because of my job. I always carry c1 at work and I always carry c1 when I'm off.
In earlier posts people have talked about the dangers of carrying c1 and that they would basically take there chances with being shot by a bad guy rather than have the danger of shooting themselves. I would rather take my chances with shooting myself than to have some low life do it for me.
Hope I didn't stray too far off
VinnieG is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 13:07   #336
PhotoFeller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Midwest and south
Posts: 2,687
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieG View Post
To give you my answers to some of your questions.
I am an LEO and always carry. When I go places that I can't carry I hate it and feel naked.
I live in a low crime area also, a town of 190 people, and I rarely go to the city. The main reason that I carry all of the time is because I refuse to be a helpless victim, no matter what the chance is of that happening.
Also as an LEO if a shooting would happen in a place that I'm at, I'm going to get involved, armed or not. So I wanna give myself the best possible chance of survival and victory.
There are a couple places that I feel comfortable unarmed, but I carry anyway. One is my dads house and the other is my inlaws house. I can let my guard down when there are dogs around to tell me if something is wrong.
There is a good chance that I feel the way that I do because of my job. I always carry c1 at work and I always carry c1 when I'm off.
In earlier posts people have talked about the dangers of carrying c1 and that they would basically take there chances with being shot by a bad guy rather than have the danger of shooting themselves. I would rather take my chances with shooting myself than to have some low life do it for me.
Hope I didn't stray too far off
You didn't stray at all. Your post was clear and on point.

I suspect your LEO status does influence your feelings about carrying all the time. For one thing, cops and attorneys make enemies along the way that could result in being targeted for a harmful attack.

Not all of the anxiety about C1 carry comes from fear of self-inflicted wounds. I'm more worried about some innocent person getting hurt because of C1 carry without a manual safety.

You didn't address the larger issue of why most people in society, at all socioeconomic levels, don't carry a weapon for SD. I grew up in a middle class community where almost everybody worked hard, owned property, loved their kids and went to church faithfully; nobody I knew personally carried a weapon for SD. I worked in a large mid-west city as part of the professional community from 1970 until 2000, and I only knew one lawyer who carried; he just loved firearms and owned lots of them.

Is there a common denominator for folks who want/need to be armed all the time? Is it because of a heightened perception of danger where they live and work? Is it because of a life-changing, frightening experience that indelibly changed their view of the world? Is it concern driven by a general uneasiness about all things that can be potentially dangerous?

I don't consider myself to be brave or dumb or particularly naive about the world around me. Something, though, prevents me from being extremely sensitive about the danger of attack while others frame their everyday lives around the ability to prevent a deadly surprise encounter. I'm just wondering why our perceptions are so far apart. Preference for C1 instead of C3 is partial evidence of our divergent views.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 02-21-2013 at 11:15..
PhotoFeller is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 13:50   #337
vandros
10mm fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: southwest
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
You didn't stray at all. Your post was clear and on point.

I suspect your LEO status does influence your feelings about carrying all the time. For one thing, cops and attorneys make enemies along the way that could result in being targeted for a harmful attack.

Not all of the anxiety about C1 carry comes from fear of self-inflicted wounds. I'm more worried about some innocent person getting hurt because of C1 carry without a manual safety.

You didn't address the larger issue of why most people in society, at all socioeconomic levels, don't carry a weapon for SD. I grew up in a middle class community where almost everybody worked hard, owned property, loved their kids and went to church faithfully; nobody I knew personally carried a weapon for SD. I worked in a large mid-west city as part of the professional community from 1970 until 2000, and I only knew one lawyer who carried; he just loved firearms and owned lots of them.

Is there a common denominator for folks who want/need to be armed all the time? Is it because of perceived danger where they live and work? Is it because of a life-changing, frightening experience that indelibly changed their view of the world? Is it concern driven by a general uneasiness about all things that can be potentially dangerous?

I don't consider myself to be brave or dumb or particularly naive about the world around me. Something, though, prevents me from being extremely sensitive about the danger of attack while others frame their everyday lives around the ability to prevent a deadly surprise encounter. I'm just wondering why our perceptions are so far apart.


You are asking for a social psychology dissertation here... ha-ha!! And, I hope somebody is working on such dissertation right now (if it hasn't already been written).

The issue you've raised in your last 2 posts is extremely interesting and important. And, I've been pondering the same in the last couple of years that I've been a gun owner (I'm from academic background, and, like you, from a relatively safe area - where gun ownership is an exception, rather than the norm).

I think one way to approach the issue is to think about it this way: Our society (i.e., human race) has been quite successful over thousands of years of evolution. And your observation appears correct: Most people go about their daily lives not worried about terrorism, meteor attacks, alien invasion, being a victim of mass shooting or home invasion, U.S. collapsing into chaos because of disruption in energy supplies, SHTF situation caused by street riots or natural disasters (yes, I've been watching Doomsday Preppers lately - which was highly entertaining - but I digress... )... It appears that happily ignoring (or being blissfully unaware of) real threats that have high severity (ie, one can die if hit by a meteor) but relatively low likelihood of occurring has been the norm and has served our human race well. Psychologically and practically, there are many benefits to thinking this way: lower stress level, lower blood pressure, lower level of ordinary confrontations escalating to lethal levels (if carrying any weapon), lower likelihood of hurting oneself/others inadvertently (if carrying a firearm). Also, we can afford to think this way in part because we have police, laws penalizing violent/nonviolent crimes, (imperfect) laws preventing (many, not all) criminals from getting access to guns, and citizens who are able to protect others, or who can protect themselves even during a surprise attack. I think flight/fight reflex is there for a reason: It helps us survive an unexpected attack, without having to constantly worry about such threats. Perhaps, another reason why today most people are not worried too much about such threats is because our society has become safer (I have no data on this, but this appears plausible due to advances in education, healthcare, manufacturing safety, workplace safety, violence being less tolerated by society at large...). I think the trend is society getting safer and fewer and fewer people having to worry about external threats (again, no data - just my hunch).

What's my point? There is no point at the moment... Just some rambling thoughts of somebody who is sleep deprived at the moment. But, I promise to revisit this topic soon...

Why I carry a knife and gun? I like knives and guns (like that lawyer from your post). Being an innocent victim of some idiot with an IQ in the single digits sucks! Picturing my loved ones violently murdered by some homicidal lunatic is the worst nightmare for me (or for anyone else). But, are these "rational" reasons to worry about these attacks (and even owning a gun, and much more carrying a gun, and even more carrying a gun in C1)? In my case, the answer is probably "no". In my case, carrying a gun and knife is mostly a strong emotional response (with occasional rational use)... I do enjoy training and enjoy shooting, for whatever its worth.

I'm looking forward to reading about philosophies/thoughts on this from older, wiser, and more experienced individuals than I'm...
__________________
glock 4 gun; strider 4 knife

Last edited by vandros; 02-19-2013 at 15:51..
vandros is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 15:58   #338
VinnieG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
You didn't stray at all. Your post was clear and on point.

I suspect your LEO status does influence your feelings about carrying all the time. For one thing, cops and attorneys make enemies along the way that could result in being targeted for a harmful attack.

Not all of the anxiety about C1 carry comes from fear of self-inflicted wounds. I'm more worried about some innocent person getting hurt because of C1 carry without a manual safety.

You didn't address the larger issue of why most people in society, at all socioeconomic levels, don't carry a weapon for SD. I grew up in a middle class community where almost everybody worked hard, owned property, loved their kids and went to church faithfully; nobody I knew personally carried a weapon for SD. I worked in a large mid-west city as part of the professional community from 1970 until 2000, and I only knew one lawyer who carried; he just loved firearms and owned lots of them.

Is there a common denominator for folks who want/need to be armed all the time? Is it because of perceived danger where they live and work? Is it because of a life-changing, frightening experience that indelibly changed their view of the world? Is it concern driven by a general uneasiness about all things that can be potentially dangerous?

I don't consider myself to be brave or dumb or particularly naive about the world around me. Something, though, prevents me from being extremely sensitive about the danger of attack while others frame their everyday lives around the ability to prevent a deadly surprise encounter. I'm just wondering why our perceptions are so far apart. Preference for C1 instead of C3 is partial evidence of our divergent views.
I'm not sure what the answer is bro. When I was growing up only a few people I know carried.
A lot more carry now and I'm not sure but I'd think that it is because there is more violence in places that you would not expect it (malls and such).
As for your question about those that don't carry. I think it is either they are comfortable that nothing is going to happen where they are. Or they are the type that think it could never happen to them. Then you have the sheep, they will only run from trouble and hope the sheepdog is close by to help them.
I'm a very tolerant person and am not trying to judge anyone. I know how I feel about things and what I'm comfortable with, it's not for everyone

Last edited by VinnieG; 02-19-2013 at 16:05..
VinnieG is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 16:41   #339
PhotoFeller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Midwest and south
Posts: 2,687
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieG View Post
I'm not sure what the answer is bro. When I was growing up only a few people I know carried.
A lot more carry now and I'm not sure but I'd think that it is because there is more violence in places that you would not expect it (malls and such).
As for your question about those that don't carry. I think it is either they are comfortable that nothing is going to happen where they are. Or they are the type that think it could never happen to them. Then you have the sheep, they will only run from trouble and hope the sheepdog is close by to help them.
I'm a very tolerant person and am not trying to judge anyone. I know how I feel about things and what I'm comfortable with, it's not for everyone
That's fair. Thanks.
PhotoFeller is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 17:20   #340
BobbyS
You Talkin ToMe
 
BobbyS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In The Noise
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
You didn't stray at all. Your post was clear and on point.

I suspect your LEO status does influence your feelings about carrying all the time. For one thing, cops and attorneys make enemies along the way that could result in being targeted for a harmful attack.

Not all of the anxiety about C1 carry comes from fear of self-inflicted wounds. I'm more worried about some innocent person getting hurt because of C1 carry without a manual safety.

You didn't address the larger issue of why most people in society, at all socioeconomic levels, don't carry a weapon for SD. I grew up in a middle class community where almost everybody worked hard, owned property, loved their kids and went to church faithfully; nobody I knew personally carried a weapon for SD. I worked in a large mid-west city as part of the professional community from 1970 until 2000, and I only knew one lawyer who carried; he just loved firearms and owned lots of them.

Is there a common denominator for folks who want/need to be armed all the time? Is it because of perceived danger where they live and work? Is it because of a life-changing, frightening experience that indelibly changed their view of the world? Is it concern driven by a general uneasiness about all things that can be potentially dangerous?

I don't consider myself to be brave or dumb or particularly naive about the world around me. Something, though, prevents me from being extremely sensitive about the danger of attack while others frame their everyday lives around the ability to prevent a deadly surprise encounter. I'm just wondering why our perceptions are so far apart. Preference for C1 instead of C3 is partial evidence of our divergent views.

People that don't carry, and have never felt the need to, feel safe. Nothing has ever happened to them.

Some people like LEO and some former military are, lets say, self programed to be always aware. These people do not want to get caught without a gun in a bad situation.

I know some vets that after returning from the crap holes they were in feel naked without a gun.

In the world we live in now, s-hitting the fan can start anywhere anytime. If you want to feel safe by carrying, ok. If you already feel safe and don't want to carry, ok.
__________________
I don't mind shooting, as long as the right person gets shot! - D. Harry
BobbyS is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 17:33   #341
PhotoFeller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Midwest and south
Posts: 2,687
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandros View Post


Why I carry a knife and gun? I like knives and guns (like that lawyer from your post). Being an innocent victim of some idiot with an IQ in the single digits sucks! Picturing my loved ones violently murdered by some homicidal lunatic is the worst nightmare for me (or for anyone else). But, are these "rational" reasons to worry about these attacks (and even owning a gun, and much more carrying a gun, and even more carrying a gun in C1)? In my case, the answer is probably "no". In my case, carrying a gun and knife is mostly a strong emotional response (with occasional rational use)... I do enjoy training and enjoy shooting, for whatever its worth.
I think your entire post (#337) is pretty darn insightful. The above excerpt in particular hits close to home for me, and I wonder if it might apply to many people who carry a firearm.

Enjoying the hardware first and foremost, and seeing a practical application for it (self defense), makes it pretty natural to embrace concealed carry in one form or another. This could explain why most of us who CC own multiple handguns; many of us own far more than we could ever justify for self defense alone.

This may be the most plausible explanation for a substantial number of gun owners who carry for SD. I suspect there aren't lots of folks who will admit it, but I will.

This doesn't explain why C1 is the generally preferred mode of carry. Maybe its as simple as the firearms trainer explained in an earlier post: guns should be carried in the manner they were designed to be carried.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 02-19-2013 at 18:10..
PhotoFeller is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 17:58   #342
PhotoFeller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Midwest and south
Posts: 2,687
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyS View Post
People that don't carry, and have never felt the need to, feel safe. Nothing has ever happened to them.

Some people like LEO and some former military are, lets say, self programed to be always aware. These people do not want to get caught without a gun in a bad situation.

I know some vets that after returning from the crap holes they were in feel naked without a gun.

In the world we live in now, s-hitting the fan can start anywhere anytime. If you want to feel safe by carrying, ok. If you already feel safe and don't want to carry, ok.
In Florida, the state with the highest number of CC permits, less than 4% of the population have a license to carry. Texas has a higher population but fewer permit holders.

The explanation for this low level of Florida CC license holders would be, based on your statement, that the population has a very, very low incidence of crimes committed against them or against someone close to them. They feel safe.

Your explanation certainly answers part of the puzzle. I've read posts in other threads about attack experiences involving ex-husbands and in-laws, jealous lovers, bar situations, that conditioned the victims to be forever prepared for trouble.

The daily experiences of LEOs would, of course, make them wary. The same is true of military combat veterans.

These situations provide real-life reasons some people are motivated to carry.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 02-20-2013 at 07:20..
PhotoFeller is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 18:11   #343
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,846
I carry one in the chamber. I want to be able to use one hand, draw the G17, and shoot my attacker.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 18:18   #344
BobbyS
You Talkin ToMe
 
BobbyS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In The Noise
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Your explanation certainly answers part of the puzzle. I've read posts in other threads about attack experiences involving ex-husbands and in-laws, jealous lovers, bar situations, that conditioned the victims to be forever prepared for trouble.

The daily experiences of LEOs would, of course, make them wary. The same is true of military combat veterans.

These situations provide real-life reasons some people are motivated to carry.

Yup! Hindsight is always 20/20........IF you can still see!
__________________
I don't mind shooting, as long as the right person gets shot! - D. Harry
BobbyS is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 20:11   #345
PhotoFeller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Midwest and south
Posts: 2,687
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
I carry one in the chamber. I want to be able to use one hand, draw the G17, and shoot my attacker.
SC-
From the looks of your low crime statistics in Hartford, you'd have a hard time finding an attacker to use your G17 on. Thats a very good thing for you and fellow residents.

The state of Vermont also has a remarkably low rate for violent crimes:

"Based on this report [City Ratings.Com], the crime rate in Vermont for 2013 is expected to be lower than in 2010 when the state violent crime rate was lower than the national violent crime rate average by 71.88% and the state property crime rate was lower than the national property crime rate average by 2.33%."

You folks are doing something right up there to discourage violent crime. What's your secret? Maybe this is part of the explanation:

"Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont does allow anyone who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind."

Good for Vermont!!

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 02-20-2013 at 09:22..
PhotoFeller is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:44   #346
FloorPoor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 134
I've been following this thread with great interest. The discussion is, for the most part, intelligent. It has caused me to take a look at my personal CC habits. I used to always carry C1, no matter what, because my weapon wont fire unless I make it. But the last two weeks I have been going C3 at work, because the likelihood of actually needing to defend myself there is pretty slim (although I have fired a nutjob who made threats to other employees, which I took seriously because I knew he had weapons in his vehicle, so nothing is a sure thing) I live in a generally low crime area, with the majority of violent crime being either domestic or drug related. I doubt that I will ever need to even draw my EDC because I avoid those types of situations, however, there is always the slight chance. So I'll probably go C3 while working on-site, and C1 in places I think it might be appropriate, and not at all in places prohibited by law.

My difficulty with CC in general is the fact that I can carry where I probably don't need to, but am prohibited from carrying in places that have a high likelihood I will actually need to defend myself. I often travel to jobs out of state, often in states that do not recognize my permit. When I was sent to work on a building in Oakland, CA, for example, and I traveled a few short blocks from the job to get some lunch, I had to be buzzed into a Taco Bell, at 2 in the afternoon I felt a little naked. I'm sent to work in rough neighborhoods, in rough cities far too often. Another time I just finished getting gas near a job in a rough area of Omaha, when two guys started fighting in the parking lot, I got the heck out of there, but heard shots fired as I pulled away The whole logic of the gun grabbers baffles me. Every city I've been to that has strict gun laws and no CC, are also high crime areas.

Anyway, I've strayed from the topic, thanks for keeping this thread intelligent, far too many of them degrade into something less.

Last edited by FloorPoor; 02-19-2013 at 21:47..
FloorPoor is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 20:01   #347
Peace Warrior
CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
 
Peace Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: With the other 7,999,999
Posts: 26,188
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandros View Post
Interesting vids. The real worst-case scenario is when you have type-3 malfunction (spent case in the chamber, and another round fails to feed, jamming into the spent case) when operating the weapon one handed. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out how to clear this malfunction one handed... It seems if this happens during a fire fight, you are pretty much f&^*ed!
Uncle Mike's ankle holster.
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales
Peace Warrior is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 20:28   #348
Peace Warrior
CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
 
Peace Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: With the other 7,999,999
Posts: 26,188
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
I have revealed that I prefer to carry C3, and I often don't carry a firearm at all. My explanation for these choices is that my lifestyle (retired, gated community, low-crime town) allows me to stay away from places/areas where assaults and armed robberies happen; the exceptions would be stopping points while traveling, late-night visits of necessity to the drug store, etc.

For those who CC every place, every day and choose C1, are there any circumstances where you would feel comfortable unarmed? Are there any places where you could turn off situational awareness and eliminate the tension of being constantly prepared for attack?

Since most who always CC feel a low probability of attack still doesn't allow for being comfortable without a weapon, I'm wondering why so many people in the general public, including nearly everyone I've known over 70+ years, see no need to be armed in everyday life. Where is the disconnect?

I understand there are dangerous places in cities everywhere. I realize there can be random acts of violence in churches and other safe havens. What I don't understand is why so few see the need to be armed always while so many never take self defense measures beyond locking their doors.

Is the disconnect the result of naïveté among the masses? Is my perception of relative safety in my life a matter of self deception? Is continuous carry in C1 and constant readiness for combat, including preparation for operating a gun after sustaining wounds, a prescription for every sensible person? Or, are different levels of SD preparedness reasonable based on the circumstances of one's life? I believe this is a relevant aspect of the C1-C3 discussion.
There was a time, in what I refer to as the by-gone days, where only criminals and Cops carried guns on a regular basis. Simply put, the "average Joe and or Josephine" only needed a gun to go hunting or shooting.

As far as criminals, they were involved with things that precipitated being armed so as to protect their specific criminal interest, albeit nefarious as it were on the whole. As far as Cops, they were (are) The Keepers of the Peace, which necessitated they carrying a gun as a device to ensure their several abilities to maintain their sworn affidavit to keep the peace in their community(ies).

So what about today? Well, today, criminals have learned that armed Police are NOT the ones in which to visit their pursuit of criminality upon. Instead, the criminals have decided to go after those persons that usually would not expect to be a subject or victim of criminality due to these same latter persons not being part of the criminal lifestyle. Simpler to state it as the criminals are trying to find EASY victims.

Go talk to some prison inmates. Personally look them in the eye and ask them what they fear(ed) the most while perpetrating their crimes. If they are honest, practically 100% of the time you will get a response, paraphrased, along this wise or these lines. "I mostly feared my intended victim possibly being armed with a gun or having a weapon that was sufficiently capable of being used against me while he/she defended himself/herself from my intentions."

If you get the same or a similar response, then ask them, as a follow up question, Weren't you more afraid of the Police, or the Judge's sentence, or maybe even someone "snitching" you out?!?

As far as the follow up question, personally speaking, I have had criminals laugh me in the face for asking. Simply put, the only thing a bad guy or criminal is really afraid of are those law abiding citizens that carry concealed weapons with which they can defend themselves.

We do NOT live in Grandpa's or Grandma's G-d fearing world. We live in a world where darkness abounds and those that would thrive in that darkness are only scared of those citizens that are armed to defend themselves and their family members.
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 02-20-2013 at 20:30..
Peace Warrior is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 20:33   #349
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,260


[sarcasm]
Has anyone considered carrying ammunition without a firearm? If the situation warrants, you can just manually insert the bullets where they need to be without the firearm at all. That's how they do it in the real tough neighborhoods.
[/sarcasm]



.




.




.





.





.





.




.


Exercise your personal choice, and carry, or don't carry any way you like as long as it is legal.

Be safe. Bad things happen in nice places.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 22:54   #350
PhotoFeller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Midwest and south
Posts: 2,687
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior;
We do NOT live in Grandpa's or Grandma's G-d fearing world. We live in a world where darkness abounds and those that would thrive in that darkness are only scared of those citizens that are armed to defend themselves and their family members.
Well said, PW. I disagree with most of your analysis, but thats simply my view versus yours.

From your vantage point, as I understand it, we live in a dark, dangerous place where only armed citizens keep the criminals in check. I judge society based on what I experience day-in and day-out, and its far different from your description. You choose to emphasize the underbelly, and I generally see a positive, peaceful, God fearing society.

Time will tell who has the clearer view.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 02-20-2013 at 23:01..
PhotoFeller is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:07.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 625
194 Members
431 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42