GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-16-2013, 14:23   #21
Bill Lumberg
BTF Inventor
 
Bill Lumberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,185
We had 1 breechface crack with a high round gun, around 8 years old, used by a member of our competition team. That was a crack. We have never had erosion like you've posted. No breechface issues from high round count glocks except for the one. No failures from gen 4's yet, but we only have a handful that already have a 10K plus round count.
__________________
Did someone talk to you about your TPS reports?

Last edited by Bill Lumberg; 02-16-2013 at 14:26..
Bill Lumberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 19:29   #22
whitey4311
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California, Highland
Posts: 457
I agree with it not being a primer leak issue. We talked about this alot today at the match and if you look closely only the vertical sides are messed up. If a primer were to leak its circular and so would be the pitting which its not.

There are at least 5 glocks I know of right now from talking to my friends who have this one is even on a SS lone wolf slide. The caliber varies from my 45 to their 9mm and 40cal. Its obviously a design issue and the quality of the metal. I dont think my friends look as bad as mine but I have only spoke to them and have not seen it for myself. A friend is hooked up with a Glock regional manager and he took a pic for him so I will wait and see what they say.

I am let down and back to playing with my 1911 but I really do like my current 21sf setup for competition and ccw. Let see how it turns out and if I have a change of heart. Blamming reloads will piss me off because I see no evidence to suggest that. I looked at my empty brass today and it was clean with no signs of burning around the primers. The thing which bothers me most is the metal looks so cheap and porous. I wish glock would cost maybe $150 more and the quality was pushed up a bit higher. The design obliviously is dead on but the parts and metal seem so cheaply made.

Last edited by whitey4311; 02-16-2013 at 19:35..
whitey4311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 19:38   #23
whitey4311
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California, Highland
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBS View Post
If the striker nose showed evidence of etching I would say you are getting some pierced primers. However your striker nose looks to be pristine and polished. Your primer ring on the breach face shows little to no etching or pitting so leaking primer pockets are few and far between. The missing metal from the striker port looks like metal fracture not erosion. Metal fracture is a problem on sharp edges with nitriding steal, where it comes to a sharp corner or edge like in your port. This is why most corners have a radius on them even if very small. I would say this is a hardness problem and suggest sending your photo to Glock. Any other slide but a Glock and it could be bored out and a new striker/firing pin port pressed in.
Very good info, thanks. My stiker is perfect and has no signs of wear like that. We think its the metal failing from the stiker impact on the back side. I dont really dry fire more then to show clear or to put the gun away etc but I dont just dry fire at a wall for any amount of time.
whitey4311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 19:52   #24
mongo356
Senior Member
 
mongo356's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: IL
Posts: 886
If you would keep us posted.

I'm curious of the outcome. The stainless LWD slide kinda throws a wrench in it. Strange for sure.

Last edited by mongo356; 02-16-2013 at 19:54..
mongo356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 19:55   #25
whitey4311
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California, Highland
Posts: 457
I sure will. I will also be asking to look at glocks during the next match.

Recently a friend bought a gen4 g17 and I told him about the polymer being so thin the frame rails arent covered. He said it was fine but after I took it apart I showed him all the exposed metal from the frame rails. I am sure this is cosmetic but still it doesnt seem right. On the other hand my HK has the same issue.

For $500 I dont expect cosmetics to be nice but my issue is uncalled for at just 15k rounds and not simply a cosmetic flaw.

Last edited by whitey4311; 02-16-2013 at 19:56..
whitey4311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 06:10   #26
INEEDMILK
Senior Member
 
INEEDMILK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 755
Have about 10,500-11,000 through my Gen4 19 with zero failures. All ammo fired has been commercial 115gr or 124gr with a few hundred rounds of +P or +P+ SD JHPs.

I just inspected the breech face and it is in pristine order.
__________________
Glock 17 RTF2 G
Glock 19 RTF2 G


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
INEEDMILK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 10:23   #27
voyager4520
-----
 
voyager4520's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SE Colorado
Posts: 8,582
Have you noticed any pierced primers out of the rounds you've shot through the gun? That could flame cut in that fashion and it'd probably take a relatively small number of rounds to do that much damage, so you may only be getting like 1 in 1,000 pierced primers.
__________________
G23 G27

Last edited by voyager4520; 02-18-2013 at 10:23..
voyager4520 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 11:04   #28
whitey4311
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California, Highland
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by voyager4520 View Post
Have you noticed any pierced primers out of the rounds you've shot through the gun? That could flame cut in that fashion and it'd probably take a relatively small number of rounds to do that much damage, so you may only be getting like 1 in 1,000 pierced primers.
I have not but I don't inspect each primer either. I don't know why primers would be pierced and if they were the striker would have just as much wear and tear which it does not.
whitey4311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 11:30   #29
Tiro Fijo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,245
A thoght crossed my mind re this matter. Is it just possible that the Russkies are still making/using/selling CORROSIVE primers?
Tiro Fijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 11:31   #30
njl
Senior Member
 
njl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: :noitacoL
Posts: 9,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
Here is a tidbit I picked up from someone who went to the advanced armorers class.
...
Glock has also seen some damage
from Blazer aluminum case ammo as well. This is from flame cutting the firing pin and breach-face. This occurs because the aluminum case allows hot gases to escape around the primer which damage the firing pin and breach-face. This ammo is not recommended in Glocks.
I have a hard time buying that. I don't know if they currently do, but in the past Glock has used Blazer (aluminum) at the factory to test fire pistols and provide the test fire cases.

I shot many cases of 9mm Blazer aluminum through several early Gen3 Glocks (and .40 Blazer through Gen2 and early Gen3 Glocks) and never noticed the breach faces falling apart.

For the OP, that breachface does look troubling. I'm curious what sorts of loads you've been shooting. i.e. primer brand/type, powder charge, etc.
__________________
what guns?
Lifetime GSSF & NRA.

Last edited by njl; 02-18-2013 at 11:31..
njl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 13:40   #31
whitey4311
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California, Highland
Posts: 457
Bullseye powder 4.8grn, Wolff primers LP have been through this gun. I have an equal split of this ammo through my 1911 and g21sf. That 1911 has total of about 40k rounds and breech face looks great. About 15k of wolf primers were used on each gun. The 1911 is SS so there is some machining marks which are vertical lines but no pitting. The glock metal looks cheap and cast to me. It's porous and doesn't look like it could hold up to much anything.

Last edited by whitey4311; 02-18-2013 at 14:33..
whitey4311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 14:55   #32
njl
Senior Member
 
njl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: :noitacoL
Posts: 9,568
Are your 21SFs USA or Austrian production? It should say so right on the slide. I've no idea how true it is, but it's been said online that the USA produced Glocks do not have the same tenifer treatment Glock does in Austria, as the exact process is not doable in the US due to EPA restrictions. All of my Glocks are Austrian. Perhaps the USA made ones are softer?...or you just got a bad slide. Either way, I'd say your slide is going to need a trip to Smyrna sooner or later, and they'll probably just replace it, and you'll end up with a mixed serial # "parts gun". Not really a big deal...but it does hurt resale value.

On the bright side, when talking to Glock, I'd strongly suggest that for this warranty issue, they don't need to see your lower. Since the lower "is the firearm" as far as the government and UPS/Fedex are concerned, the slide can be sent to Smyrna much cheaper than the entire pistol...because it's just parts (not a firearm).
__________________
what guns?
Lifetime GSSF & NRA.
njl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 15:16   #33
sciolist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,529
My P-series G34 slide had about 55K on it when it died. Almost all of that was with Power Pistol and Federal primers. I fried a couple of striker tips (so there was definitely some primer piercing) but no damage to the breech face.

I donít know whatís going in photo in Post #1, but it sure looks like etching (as opposed to mechanical damage).
sciolist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 15:58   #34
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey4311 View Post
Good info guys, thanks.

Reading on the 1911 forum there are some 1911s doing this as well from loose primer pockets. I dont have this issue on my 1911 and it must have ran about 10-15k of these russian Wolf primers. The fact that my friends have the same issue and they only use once fired brass and dont pick theirs up makes me think loose pockets might be BS.
There is a distinctive ring on the breech face where the primer hits it. There is also a ring where the outside of the case impacts the breech. The damage in the middle is too far inside the primer ring to be caused by gas leaking out around the edges. Primer pitting is VERY apparent by its location.

So, that leaves two possibilities: First, you are puncturing the primer and the gas is blowing out around the firing pin but that should be easy to spot on the spent cases. Second, the metal 'chipped' away and that's what it looks like to me. I don't think the damage is at all related to ammo. You breech face looks like every one I have ever seen except for the area around the firing pin hole.

Quote:
My reloads are with bullseye powder and I have used both moly lead and FMJ in the glock with no issues. My primers were the Wolf LP and I am down to the last 1k and have 40k Winchester on hand which I much prefer. I use brass and not aluminum or steel cases. I cant think of anything else but I would be very disappointed if I find out its my ammo. I cant see anything wrong with my reloads but perhaps there is one more thing to be learned that I dont know about. :(
Post over on the Reloading Forum here at Glock Talk. There are some pretty knowledgeable folks over there.

Incidentally, I have a few thousand reloaded rounds through my G21SF and the breech looks nothing like yours.

I didn't know that anybody 'preferred' Winchester primers. I'm a Federal primer kind of guy in better times. Right now I am a 'whatever I can get' kind of guy! And, yes, I bought about 15k of Tula primers. The small rifle work very well on .223 and I'm about to try the small and large pistol.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin

Last edited by F106 Fan; 02-18-2013 at 16:04..
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 16:12   #35
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,036
Another thing that looks odd: Over on the far right, it looks like there is a radius in what should be a straight face running vertically up the breech. It just forward of the breech face and the radius kind of matches the outer diameter of the case. I don't know how that radius got there but it sure looks like your slide missed the heat treat process.

From the photo, I can't tell if the ramp below the breech face has a bevel. It may be due to the reflection. On mine, the surface is beveled back about 45 degrees.

Maybe it's nothing...

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin

Last edited by F106 Fan; 02-18-2013 at 16:12..
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 20:56   #36
whitey4311
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California, Highland
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
There is a distinctive ring on the breech face where the primer hits it. There is also a ring where the outside of the case impacts the breech. The damage in the middle is too far inside the primer ring to be caused by gas leaking out around the edges. Primer pitting is VERY apparent by its location.

So, that leaves two possibilities: First, you are puncturing the primer and the gas is blowing out around the firing pin but that should be easy to spot on the spent cases. Second, the metal 'chipped' away and that's what it looks like to me. I don't think the damage is at all related to ammo. You breech face looks like every one I have ever seen except for the area around the firing pin hole.



Post over on the Reloading Forum here at Glock Talk. There are some pretty knowledgeable folks over there.

Incidentally, I have a few thousand reloaded rounds through my G21SF and the breech looks nothing like yours.

I didn't know that anybody 'preferred' Winchester primers. I'm a Federal primer kind of guy in better times. Right now I am a 'whatever I can get' kind of guy! And, yes, I bought about 15k of Tula primers. The small rifle work very well on .223 and I'm about to try the small and large pistol.

Richard
Yes that is a good observation. I thought the same as the damage doesnt match the primer profile and isnt conducive with primer blow out. My striker would be fried if that were the case and all is well in there. I even thought today that the inner plastic liner for the striker channel would be surely damaged if hot flame was tossed in there but its all fine.

I am currently waiting for my cop friend to send my photo to the regional manager at glock. Maybe I can skip some of the standard BS and get taken care of quicker.

Either way my major concern is with the other guys having the same issue on their glocks. If I just got a bad slide that would describe my luck with things. No matter what I get its jacked up from the start it seems, lol. But if other glocks are failing then I am pretty upset. Most the older guys I shoot with have old old glocks and they seem to think quality and materials have gone down over the years.
whitey4311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 21:50   #37
mongo356
Senior Member
 
mongo356's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: IL
Posts: 886
The friend you said with the stainless LWD slide with the same problem is what makes me tend to look at the ammo.

The 1911's have a round firing pin, the Glocks is spear tipped to keep the pin from sharing off because of the way the firing pin stays forward while the slide unlocks. Maybe shape plays a part?

I'm personally leaning towards a pierced primer as well. I read where hard anvils can pierce the primer cup and allow gas to leak.

Tuff call as they say, you don't know what you don't know.
Curious what Glock HQ thinks.

Best of luck
mongo356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 08:10   #38
whitey4311
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California, Highland
Posts: 457
I am being told that the Glock Regional Manager says its a warranty issue and I will be given a new slide. I will have this email forwarded to me shortly. This coming from my cop buddy who knows the manager so I cant verify the info first hand just yet.
whitey4311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 11:31   #39
mq105
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Let us know what comes of this. The information about the LW slide does add a wrinkle in the search for a cause.
I have a Gen 2 G19 and a Gen 3 G19 and they do look different in some ways. The look of the materials is not the same, particularly the slides. Both are Austrian-made guns. Having said that, I have 12-13000 rds through the newer gun with no visible problems.
mq105 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 11:47   #40
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
It really looks like the primers you are using are too hard and the pressure of your loads is too low. If the pressure is too low and the primer is too hard, then the hard primer is not able to seal fully against the shell casing when the round goes off. I believe that's what causes those flame cuts on your breech face.

Sometimes the extreme heat of that gas escapes through the firing pin hole because it is looking for an path of least resistance. The gas gets even hotter when it meets fresh oxygen near the FP hole.
There would be a ring around the FP hole on the breech face from gas cutting if what you described was happening.(like in the picture below) His breech face has no ring so I am not seeing how that theory holds any water.

If he was piercing primers causing erosion around the FP hole his firing pin should show wear and the FP channel should be very dirty. The OPs issue kinda looks to me like the steel is chipping away slowly around the FP hole due to the pressures involved with firing the gun.

General Glocking

Last edited by dkf; 02-20-2013 at 11:49..
dkf is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 13:47.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,176
305 Members
871 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31