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02-12-2013, 12:26
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#51
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CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 40,613
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Feinstein and Boxer Ask Californians to Lay Down Their Weapons During Statewide Manhunt
(PP)- As an ex-Los Angeles police officer killed three people and went on a deadly shooting rampage in a vendetta to punish those he attributed for his firing, California Senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer pleaded for calm, and asked both law enforcement and civilians to lay down their weapons.
http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...ewide-manhunt/
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".
"A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read."
Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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02-12-2013, 12:56
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#52
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NRA Life Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Jersey...sucks
Posts: 29,415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO
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I thought it was serious for about 30 seconds. My head almost exploded.
__________________
I deserve to lose a gunfight if I ever take gunfighting advice from James Yeager.
Last edited by Bren; 02-12-2013 at 12:58..
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02-12-2013, 13:04
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#53
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CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 24,680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO
asked both law enforcement and civilians to lay down their weapons.
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Wow, she wants law enforcement to lay down their guns.
I am not sure what to say about this. Is she really this dumb?
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
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02-12-2013, 13:11
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneegrl
If they are using the drone to locate him - what's the problem? Seems like a good use of resources to me.
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Well, a good test of things like this is to ask yourself "how would I feel in this situation if I were wrongly suspected/accused of a crime?"
Would you want the government hunting you down with drones? Surveillance satellites? Traffic cameras on traffic signals? GPS tracking of your vehicle?
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02-12-2013, 13:15
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 518
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This situation is an excellent example of how the current administration in Washington, and their followers all the way down to local government like to handle situations like this.
The potential use of drones against American citizens has been in the news lately and has been causing a lot of well-deserved outrage.
What to do about it? Take a situation such as Dorner, whom almost everyone agrees is a really, really bad guy, and suggest that we use drones to find (and kill?) him. Oh, people say. What a great idea.
Obama administration: "never let a good crisis go to waste."
The precedent is then set, and it won't be all that long before drones are flying around all over the place watching everything we do.
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02-12-2013, 13:17
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#56
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 38,951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditto1958
Well, a good test of things like this is to ask yourself "how would I feel in this situation if I were wrongly suspected/accused of a crime?"
Would you want the government hunting you down with drones? Surveillance satellites? Traffic cameras on traffic signals? GPS tracking of your vehicle?
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Would they need to be hunting for you? Wouldn't you have already gone in an straightened it out? 
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, usually that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards that are earned.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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02-12-2013, 13:19
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#57
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 38,951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren
I thought it was serious for about 30 seconds. My head almost exploded.
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__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, usually that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards that are earned.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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02-12-2013, 14:14
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#58
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BLR
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Utah
Posts: 5,393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditto1958
This situation is an excellent example of how the current administration in Washington, and their followers all the way down to local government like to handle situations like this.
The potential use of drones against American citizens has been in the news lately and has been causing a lot of well-deserved outrage.
What to do about it? Take a situation such as Dorner, whom almost everyone agrees is a really, really bad guy, and suggest that we use drones to find (and kill?) him. Oh, people say. What a great idea.
Obama administration: "never let a good crisis go to waste."
The precedent is then set, and it won't be all that long before drones are flying around all over the place watching everything we do.
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agreed
__________________
“A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot...”― Robert A. Heinlein
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02-12-2013, 14:44
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#59
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 38,951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditto1958
This situation is an excellent example of how the current administration in Washington, and their followers all the way down to local government like to handle situations like this.
The potential use of drones against American citizens has been in the news lately and has been causing a lot of well-deserved outrage.
What to do about it? Take a situation such as Dorner, whom almost everyone agrees is a really, really bad guy, and suggest that we use drones to find (and kill?) him. Oh, people say. What a great idea.
Obama administration: "never let a good crisis go to waste."
The precedent is then set, and it won't be all that long before drones are flying around all over the place watching everything we do.
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BAN all drones. They, like ATM machines are taking jobs away from good people, in this case, pilots and observers and mechanics and air traffic controllers and...wait, no, they are still in the equation...
ditto1958, you add, "(and kill)", where has anyone involved with the search for Dorner said that armed drones are up looking for Dorner.
Where in any of the documents related to using drones for tactical weapons does it even imply that they can be used within the borders of the USA?
I know, I know, the fear is about use, rather misuse in the future. But you imply there are armed drones seeking out this guy in LA. Where in the actual documents do you read of that possibility today?
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, usually that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards that are earned.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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02-12-2013, 14:57
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#60
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CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 40,613
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Shootout in progress at Big bear.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".
"A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read."
Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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02-12-2013, 15:18
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#61
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 38,951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO
Shootout in progress at Big bear.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
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No drones involved...
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, usually that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards that are earned.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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02-12-2013, 17:08
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#62
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CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 40,613
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Prayers for the fallen Officer, the critical Officer, and families.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".
"A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read."
Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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02-12-2013, 17:41
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#63
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 38,951
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Cancel the drones...
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, usually that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards that are earned.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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02-12-2013, 17:44
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#64
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Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 19,738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
Cancel the drones...
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Not just yet...
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
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02-12-2013, 17:58
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#65
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,590
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Breaking news: Police believe they've located Dorner. Some one inside the cabin is screaming "DON'T DRONE ME BRO......DON'T DRONE ME......
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02-12-2013, 18:02
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#66
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Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 36,327
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Latest looks like he's a crispy critter now.
I hope this is over.
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02-12-2013, 18:04
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#67
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren
You making things up is what we call a "straw man" argument. There was no information about using missiles and no change to the law that would apply to using them in downtown LA. You are inventing a fantasy world to argue in, that has nothing to do with the reality. If the police use drones, they can only use them in the same way they'd fire a rifle from a helicopter. If he's in downtown LA, currently law wouldn't allow the use of bombs and missiles that could hit others and if he's out in the desert, current law already allwos the police to kill him with a missile or anything else they have. Use of force law says when the police can use deadly force - it doesn't say what they can use to kill you.
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Bren, the LA PD called Predators to search for 3 armed men that stole 6 cattle a few months ago: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec...rrest-20111211
You don't think the LA PD would send a Predator (unarmed) to look for a domestic terrorist (Dorner)?
Seems like a logical assumption to me, thus why I said I have no problem with sending a Predator to look for him as long as it's unarmed. A Predator carries one type of munition, hellfire missiles.
If there is another type of drone (there are many) that YOU are assuming will be used, then please post a pic or a link of one with a sniper rifle on it and we can talk about that. At the moment there is no strawman argument because quite frankly you and I aren't even discussing the same subject... You might be trying to draw me into some type of argument with you, well I'm just not interested honestly. You asked me to clarify my comment, and I did.
__________________
"There is only one kind of freedom and that's individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it."
Ron Paul
Last edited by BenjiEDF; 02-12-2013 at 18:12..
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02-12-2013, 18:09
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#68
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc
Latest looks like he's a crispy critter now.
I hope this is over.
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I hope this is over too, a dirt nap for Dorner be a happy ending to this fiasco.
__________________
"There is only one kind of freedom and that's individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it."
Ron Paul
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02-12-2013, 18:11
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#69
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Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 36,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjiEDF
Bren, the LA PD called Predators to search for 3 armed men that stole 6 cattle a few months ago: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec...rrest-20111211
You don't think the LA PD would send a Predator (unarmed) to look for a domestic terrorist (Dorner)?
Seems like a logical assumption to me, thus why I said I have no problem with sending a Predator to look for him as long as it's unarmed. A Predator carries one type of munition, hellfire missiles.
If there is another type of drone (there are many) that YOU are assuming will be used, then please post a pic or a link of one with a sniper rifle on it and we can talk about that. At the moment there is no strawman argument because I clarified my comment when you asked me too. Quite frankly you and I aren't even discussing the same subject... |
The predators can carry a few munitions, more are on the way.
Armament
2 hardpoints
2 × AGM-114 Hellfire (MQ-1B)
4 × AIM-92 Stinger (MQ-1B)
6 × Griffin air-to-surface missiles
It's still just a weapon system, a pilot fires the weapons. I'd still not like to see explosives used within the borders of the USA. With the possible exception of drug smugglers on the border.
Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-12-2013 at 18:15..
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02-12-2013, 18:14
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#70
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc
Latest looks like he's a crispy critter now.
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Waco game plan? 
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02-12-2013, 18:36
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#71
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Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 36,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
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Waco game plan? |
He had his chances. No innocents inside. Sympathy level is very low.
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02-12-2013, 19:03
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#72
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"Cracker"
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc
Latest looks like he's a crispy critter now.
I hope this is over.
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Janet come out of retirement?
__________________
No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session- Mark Twain
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal
Emma Goldman
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02-12-2013, 19:07
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#73
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Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 36,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruble Noon
Janet come out of retirement?
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So, who are you picking as the bad guy here?
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02-12-2013, 19:21
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#74
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,590
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Breaking news: Chris Dorner has been buried at sea.
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02-12-2013, 19:30
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#75
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"Cracker"
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc
So, who are you picking as the bad guy here?
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Dorner of course. I thought maybe they had Janet come in and TCB. Fiery endings are her hallmark after all.
__________________
No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session- Mark Twain
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal
Emma Goldman
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