[Batesmotel]

I had a Grendel .380. The one that loaded from the top. (P-10 I think)The hammer spring broke on the third magazine. Sent it back at my cost. They fixed it for "free" but gouged me about $30.00 in "handling" fees to send it back.

While they had it they replaced the extractor and/or ejector to the new upgraded one. It failed to extract or eject on every shot after that. The dealer I bought it from had an in-house smith who fixed it but I never trusted it.

The other was a Taurus 92 that was chewing it's self apart. If you looked at it from the top, the slide was rotating counter clockwise and shaving the frame away. Their customer service told me that's what I get for buying a cheep copy instead of an original Beretta 92.

[Booker]

1. AR7 Went full-auto after the first two shots!

2. S&W M&P9c Was my first single shot semi-auto. Factory fixed it, but didn't trust it!

3. Charter Arms Bulldog. The internals must be stamped out of Coke Cans. You could rotate the cylinder by hand when in full lock-up.

4. Taurus 44 Special. Factory bored 3 cylinders for 44, not sure about the other two, but a 44 wouldn't fit!

[Jason D]

Originally Posted by AA#5

A Remington 597 (22 rifle). After the first 10 rounds were OK, it started failing to feed and eject. Then, rounds would get stuck halfway down the magazine. Then, it got kinda fun when it started full-auto - 4 rounds with one trigger pull & the RO got a little pissed.

A buddy also bought one at the same time. His wouldn't fire a 10-rd. mag without malfunctioning.

After two factory "fixes" with nothing fixed, we both made Remington give us full refunds.

I bought one of the first LSS on the market back when they came out. Total piece of crap. My Dad bought the cheapest version they made around the same time I got my rifle and his has been nothing but reliable.

[garya1961]

I hate these gun bashing treads. I have a lot of these guns and they work fine. I believe a lot of these failures are owner induced such as limp wristing with Kel Tecs, and failure to clean and or reassemble correctly as in the Remington 597. I know the 597 had mag problem when they first came out but Remington fixed the problem and would send you a free mag if yours didn't work. Also if you tighten the rods/rails too tight in a 597 it won't run you have to leave them a little loose.
I'm not a 1911 guy but another thing that gets to me is people will buy a relatively cheap Rock Island 1911(I have nothing against Rock Island) then spend more money on upgrades than they paid for the gun to start with but swear it was a good gun. Then if someone buys a Taurus 1911 with forged frame and slide and all the upgrades already installed and one simple part breaks they swear it is a total piece of crap. I know parts shouldn't break and none has on mine but wouldn't it be better to upgrade a gun with a forged frame and slide. It seems to me high end 1911s have a lot of problems too.

[ilgunguygt]

Originally Posted by garya1961

I hate these gun bashing treads. I have a lot of these guns and they work fine. I believe a lot of these failures are owner induced such as limp wristing with Kel Tecs, and failure to clean and or reassemble correctly as in the Remington 597. I know the 597 had mag problem when they first came out but Remington fixed the problem and would send you a free mag if yours didn't work. Also if you tighten the rods/rails too tight in a 597 it won't run you have to leave them a little loose.
I'm not a 1911 guy but another thing that gets to me is people will buy a relatively cheap Rock Island 1911(I have nothing against Rock Island) then spend more money on upgrades than they paid for the gun to start with but swear it was a good gun. Then if someone buys a Taurus 1911 with forged frame and slide and all the upgrades already installed and one simple part breaks they swear it is a total piece of crap. I know parts shouldn't break and none has on mine but wouldn't it be better to upgrade a gun with a forged frame and slide. It seems to me high end 1911s have a lot of problems too.

no sense in putting too much effort into commenting on this post. The logic and time would be wasted.

[garya1961]

Originally Posted by ilgunguygt

no sense in putting too much effort into commenting on this post. The logic and time would be wasted.

You already commented but it was just a smart arse remark.

[ilgunguygt]

Originally Posted by garya1961

You already commented but it was just a smart arse remark.

Thats about all a dumb ass statement deserves.

[garya1961]

Originally Posted by ilgunguygt

Thats about all a dumb ass statement deserves.

'Explain or shut up.
Ok after reading some of your old post I see you are a 1911 guy. I said to start with I am not a 1911 guy. I don't have anything against them just never owned but one. I wasn't claiming to be an expert on 1911s , I was just asking why basically.
I see that we do have a lot in common though. I am a dog person and I was a Chevy mechanic for the last five years but unemployed right now.
If I'm so wrong please educate me because that's why I'm here, to learn more about guns.

[ilgunguygt]

Originally Posted by garya1961

'Explain or shut up.
Ok after reading some of your old post I see you are a 1911 guy. I said to start with I am not a 1911 guy. I don't have anything against them just never owned but one. I wasn't claiming to be an expert on 1911s , I was just asking why basically.
I see that we do have a lot in common though. I am a dog person and I was a Chevy mechanic for the last five years but unemployed right now.
If I'm so wrong please educate me because that's why I'm here, to learn more about guns.

I'm not a 1911 guy, actually. I am a gun guy. I like 1911s, but i own more polymer handguns than I do 1911s.

As to why someone would put money into a RIA and say a taurus isnt worth it? Because there is a lot more to the quality of a 1911 than the type of manufacting involved in he slide and frame. There are many top notch guns with cast frames. There is so much more at play than that its not even funny. Feed ramp angle, machining quality, barrel quality, throating, etc. Look up VIS for example. The fact that the frame is forged in a miniscule item when compared to the things that make a 1911 junk or not.

Thats not why I commented about your post though. It was the thought that:

I believe a lot of these failures are owner induced such as limp wristing with Kel Tecs, and failure to clean and or reassemble correctly as in the Remington 597

Thats an asinine statement made out of owner pride. I own guns that are known to have had problems. While mine dont exhibit it I will surely not by insisting that people are ignorant and dont know how to hold the firearm or dont know how to clean it because it SIMPLY CANNOT BE THE GUN, because I own one of them and mine is fine. Thats plain silly.

[Gills63]

There is nothing wrong with threads like this. Its not meant to be gun review thread. Most people with a brain realize that lemons get shipped by every factory. Quality errors happen, it doesn't mean that make or model is necessarily crap it just means that particular gun was. When it becomes a wide spread problem then start looking at design, materials, and manufacturing process.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[ilgunguygt]

Originally Posted by Gills63

There is nothing wrong with threads like this. Its not meant to be gun review thread. Most people with a brain realize that lemons get shipped by every factory. Quality errors happen, it doesn't mean that make or model is necessarily crap it just means that particular gun was. When it becomes a wide spread problem then start looking at design, materials, and manufacturing process.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Except for the people that cant handle that thier chosen brand could ever put out a lemon.

[gordo993]

Diamondback DB380.
x2

The first one was a basket case. Went back to the factory 3 times and still a jam-o-matic. Dumped it off at a guns show.

The second one was much later in the production run - after they had re-designed many key components. It went back once and then ran fine, but no confidence.

Sold it and bought a Sig 238. Love it!

[pat701]

You should expect/get a NIB firearm that runs right, no matter what brand it is.

[series1811]

Ruger standard model .22 auto handgun I bought in college. Couldn't get it to shoot an entire magazine of .22 rounds, no matter what brand. Finally sold it.

[garya1961]

Originally Posted by ilgunguygt

I'm not a 1911 guy, actually. I am a gun guy. I like 1911s, but i own more polymer handguns than I do 1911s.

As to why someone would put money into a RIA and say a taurus isnt worth it? Because there is a lot more to the quality of a 1911 than the type of manufacting involved in he slide and frame. There are many top notch guns with cast frames. There is so much more at play than that its not even funny. Feed ramp angle, machining quality, barrel quality, throating, etc. Look up VIS for example. The fact that the frame is forged in a miniscule item when compared to the things that make a 1911 junk or not.

Thats not why I commented about your post though. It was the thought that:



Thats an asinine statement made out of owner pride. I own guns that are known to have had problems. While mine dont exhibit it I will surely not by insisting that people are ignorant and dont know how to hold the firearm or dont know how to clean it because it SIMPLY CANNOT BE THE GUN, because I own one of them and mine is fine. Thats plain silly.

If you read what I wrote I said I believe "a lot of the problems" were caused by the owners not "all the problems" were caused by the owners. I never said it "CANNOT BE THE GUN" It is a fact that a lot of people have a tendency to limpwrist when shooting a small light weight gun even people who have been shooting for years. I have done it a few times myself when I first got a PF9.
Also a lot of people buy guns they know nothing about and decide to upgrade them or do a $.25 trigger job and behold the gun doesn't work, so it must be a piece of junk. The Remington 597 is a good example of this, people take them apart without knowing what they are doing and over tighten the rails when re-assembling it. It will not run if you tighten the rails too tight.

Quote-. There are many top notch guns with cast frames.

I have nothing against cast parts but a lot of these top notch guns have problems too but they "just need breaking in"
I know it doesn't fit this tread but people on here love to bash guns they never owned. They read it on the internet so it must be true
Usually when a gun bashing tread starts half the guns in my safe are mentioned but the ones I have seem to work fine. My PT1911, Kel Tecs, Ruger Mini 30, Mosins, Remington 597,WASR 10, and even my early model Universal M1 carbine have all worked great.
I have had a lot of guns in my life and seldon found a real lemon. Yes, some had a problem that needed fixing but so does everything else in life.
If you are an auto mechanic then you know things slip through sometimes that doesn't mean the rest of the cars are junk or even the car with the problem is junk.

[ilgunguygt]

Originally Posted by garya1961

If you read what I wrote I said I believe "a lot of the problems" were caused by the owners not "all the problems" were caused by the owners. I never said it "CANNOT BE THE GUN" It is a fact that a lot of people have a tendency to limpwrist when shooting a small light weight gun even people who have been shooting for years. I have done it a few times myself when I first got a PF9.
Also a lot of people buy guns they know nothing about and decide to upgrade them or do a $.25 trigger job and behold the gun doesn't work, so it must be a piece of junk. The Remington 597 is a good example of this, people take them apart without knowing what they are doing and over tighten the rails when re-assembling it. It will not run if you tighten the rails too tight.

Quote-. There are many top notch guns with cast frames.

I have nothing against cast parts but a lot of these top notch guns have problems too but they "just need breaking in"
I know it doesn't fit this tread but people on here love to bash guns they never owned. They read it on the internet so it must be true
Usually when a gun bashing tread starts half the guns in my safe are mentioned but the ones I have seem to work fine. My PT1911, Kel Tecs, Ruger Mini 30, Mosins, Remington 597,WASR 10, and even my early model Universal M1 carbine have all worked great.
I have had a lot of guns in my life and seldon found a real lemon. Yes, some had a problem that needed fixing but so does everything else in life.
If you are an auto mechanic then you know things slip through sometimes that doesn't mean the rest of the cars are junk or even the car with the problem is junk.

About the only time I see someone say that "all the guns" of a particular make are junk is with taurus. It also seems that you have brought up your pt1911 a few times now.

of course all manufacturers make a lemon, thats the purpose in this thread, DUH! The fact that most taurus owners cant accept the fact that they make WAY more lemons than anyone else is comical. It seems the more you post about this the more that direction this is going.

Its pretty plain that your feelings are hurt over it. They shouldnt be. I know one guy that has a PT1911 that has seen some serious abuse an an IDPA gun. He beats the hell out of it and it runs like a champ. Thats one guy. I know at least three other people(including myself would make four) that had the worst experience in the world with a pt1911 and would never contemplate owning another one. Absolute junk.

[Old School]

1. Browning abolt .22. It wouldn't feed rounds from the magazine with any consistency. Traded for a cz452, a real bolt action .22

2. Marlin 1897 .22. Action was rough, difficult to cycle. I sent it back to the factory and they polished a few parts. Problem persisted. I sent it to a recommended cowboy action smith and he said the lever mortise was not in the right spot. I still have that and I'm debating what to do next.

3. Rem 11-87. I bought it as i thought it was an improved 1100. I was wrong. Fail to feed every 5-10 rounds. Traded for a Benelli, a real semi auto shotgun

4. Ruger mini 14. If you blatantly rip off the Garand, it should be accurate after 1 mag...and you should have designed it to use AR mags. Still have the old boat anchor (thanks Walter Ga, where ever you are).

[garya1961]

Quote "About the only time I see someone say that "all the guns" of a particular make are junk is with taurus."
Another I read it on the internet stories.
I base my my reviews on real life expierence not what I read on the net. It's always the problem gun that shows up on here not the 999 other guns that were flawless.
I'm not a big fan of the 1911 but my PT1911 has been a great gun.
Quote" Its pretty plain that your feelings are hurt over it"
I have enough "real" problems in my life so the crap on here doesn't bother me. It's just a way to amuse myself.

[ilgunguygt]

Originally Posted by garya1961

Quote "About the only time I see someone say that "all the guns" of a particular make are junk is with taurus."
Another I read it on the internet stories.
I base my my reviews on real life expierence not what I read on the net. It's always the problem gun that shows up on here not the 999 other guns that were flawless.
I'm not a big fan of the 1911 but my PT1911 has been a great gun.
Quote" Its pretty plain that your feelings are hurt over it"
I have enough "real" problems in my life so the crap on here doesn't bother me. It's just a way to amuse myself.

So I guess that means that my experiences are "read it on the internet" and arent "real life expierence" like yours? There you go, right back to your "it cant be true because I dont want it to be" thought process.

I have owned four taurus firearms, and after the fourth one felt like a real dumb ass for being taken four times by the same company.

[johnstein11]

Originally Posted by gordo993

Diamondback DB380.
x2

The first one was a basket case. Went back to the factory 3 times and still a jam-o-matic. Dumped it off at a guns show.

The second one was much later in the production run - after they had re-designed many key components. It went back once and then ran fine, but no confidence.

Sold it and bought a Sig 238. Love it!

Diamondback DB9, what a POS. Trigger broke after 1 mag, and it jammed every other round with quality factory ammo!

[aircarver]

Member of my club had a S&W Mdl. 41 that wouldn't run reliably.

He found it doubly frustrating 'cuz I also had one that never missed a beat.



We tried his with my (known working) magazines ... no go.
We eyeballed it against mine ... couldn't find anything.

It made three trips back to S&W ... no go ...

Apparently some individual examples of a reliable design are just lemons...

.

[garya1961]

Quote- So I guess that means that my experiences are "read it on the internet" and arent "real life expierence" like yours?
Quote- About the only time I see someone say that "all the guns" of a particular make are junk is with taurus.

[ilgunguygt]

Originally Posted by garya1961

Quote- So I guess that means that my experiences are "read it on the internet" and arent "real life expierence" like yours?
Quote- About the only time I see someone say that "all the guns" of a particular make are junk is with taurus.

What does that men? People say that because they do make a lot of junk. My FOUR were proof of that. We need that internet butt hurt form for you.

[mr00jimbo]

When I first got my Buckmark it was quite unreliable. Lots of light strikes and one round that got stuck in the chamber and had to be dislodged. Still get the occasional light strikes.
My Ruger 10/22 sets off all the rounds I have ever put through it and is insanely reliable (though it is modified, few factory parts remaining), and I share ammo through both guns, so...

In the Buckmark's defense, the gun is so accurate it's just ridiculous.

[raydobbs]

My nightmare gun was a DPMS/Panther Arms AR15. Using the supplied CA approved 3 round magazine, it worked. Using any other magazines, it would manage about three rounds before it 1> Failed to feed a new cartridge 2> Failed to extract/eject the spent brass 3> Short cycle causing the cartridge to get jammed in the action, bending the cartridge horribly or 4>Some combination of all the above. I tried polishing the feed ramps, changing the magazines (even borrowed a M16 mag from a Class III guy at the range who had never seen an AR15 fsck up so bad, same effect). Range owner tried it - he couldn't get it to work even WITH the CA 3 round mag, only hand feeding the rounds into the breach one at a time without a mag present worked. Eventually sound it at an inner city gun store with an inherited Ruger revolver for cash to make a house payment. Am very glad to see that rifle go... though the capital loss was painful.