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Old 02-12-2013, 15:35   #1
Mountainview
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Safe question

If things get bad I think having a good gun safe will be important.

How secure are safes like the Franklin 50 or Champion 45? Are there any others outside of a Amsec TL30 that will keep non-professionals out?
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Old 02-12-2013, 15:50   #2
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Even a TL30 will only buy you time.

The safe, is your last line of defense from a burglar. I'd spend a little less on the safe itself, and the balance in things like a security system.

You will likely never recoup the price of truly great safe. And there are plenty of ways to make a good safe into a really good one. (Bolting it down, encasing the sides to prevent access) ect.

Not to mention, even if a good safe keeps them out, be prepared to buy a new one or spend some money to repair the damage they did to it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:06   #3
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Thanks for the info, AK Stick. I think everything you said is correct. This is going to be one of my home defense preps for when things hit the fan not just now. I realize even the TL30 will just buy me time, but I want to try and do the best I can.

So, if you were looking at safes in the general size of the Franklin 50, Champion M45, and others which would you go with? I'd like to get a good one that I'd never have to replace or worry about.

Also, how do you encase the sides to prevent access?
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:16   #4
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People might stop by here to say robbers just take the whole safe. I don't know.

Underbed safes might be something to look at.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bed+...iw=960&bih=539
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:18   #5
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I have an American Security safe which I am very happy with. It is bolted to the floor and for the average home burglar it will not be compromised easily. My safe affords me peace of mind from fire loss more than burglars. If you want to keep some cash, precious metals, jewels, critical papers, etc. you can put them inside a small fireproof safe like the ones sold at Walmart, and place that safe inside your large safe. I'm confident that those items are safe from fire. My safe is in my walk-out basement so it should escape the hottest of the fire if there ever is one.
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:43   #6
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There are multiple threads on this topic.

You can't beat a Fort Knox safe or their warranty.
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Old 02-12-2013, 18:55   #7
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I did a search in the S&P forum and didn't see one, but I could have missed it. I thought it would be a good place to post it because of the mindset I was looking for.

So, in terms of security what separates a Fort Knox from a Liberty, Champion, or a lower end fireproof American Security?
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:33   #8
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Safes are more complicated than meets the eye.

First you need to examine what you're going to put in it, and the value of its contents.

Second if you're talking about a typical safe, consider room to grow. I bought the biggest thing I could get in my door, and I could use a second on the same size, and even then i sill wouldn't have room for ammo in it.

Fire ratings are not all created equal, Know the time and temp of the rating.

Understand what the gauge of the walls are, and the gauge of the door. Composite safe doors are deceiving. They might look an inch thick, but they are two layers of sheet metal, say 10 gauge or whatever. A lot of cheaper models use thinner metal in the door. A solid metal door that is 1/4 steel looks much thinner, but is much heavier than many composite doors.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:45   #9
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youtube has many vids to watch...check "safe cracking" etc.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:51   #10
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You can have a home security system as a first line of defense, a safe as a second line of defense, but also consider insuring what you have in the safe as a way to recoup what you may have lost. Yes, it's an annual cost, but it's up to you to decide if it's worth it to protect your investments from theft, fire, floods, etc. Make it a consideration in your overall plan.
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:08   #11
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Purchase more safe than you think that you need! They fill very quickly, especially if you put firearm accessories in the safe.
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Old 02-12-2013, 21:20   #12
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I appreciate all the replies! I think you all have helped me knock the Champion off my list. They seem like a nice safe, but their wall thickness and bolt size have turned me away.

70x40x30 is the size I'm looking at. I'm not sure I can afford (or fit) anything larger.

Would a safe with bolts on all 4 sides be worth an extra thousand than one with only 3? Does American Security or Fort Knox have the same ani-pry system as some of the Liberty safes?

Is there anything else I should be looking at to help with my decision?
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Old 02-12-2013, 22:47   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountainview View Post
I appreciate all the replies! I think you all have helped me knock the Champion off my list. They seem like a nice safe, but their wall thickness and bolt size have turned me away.

70x40x30 is the size I'm looking at. I'm not sure I can afford (or fit) anything larger.

Would a safe with bolts on all 4 sides be worth an extra thousand than one with only 3? Does American Security or Fort Knox have the same ani-pry system as some of the Liberty safes?

Is there anything else I should be looking at to help with my decision?
You're not gonna pry open a Fort Knox safe with the corner bolts. Just not gonna happen.

Click image for larger version

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If you bolt it down, it's gonna take a diesel truck to move it and a torch to get it open.
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Old 02-13-2013, 00:31   #14
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That's what I like to hear! I'll have to see what they have in the size I'm looking for.
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Old 02-13-2013, 00:46   #15
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Personally, I would be leery of a under bed safe , as most of the ones I have seen, lack the construction of the better stand alone ones. Plus it's much harder to encase your bed to make it harder to access the more vulnerable sides of the safe.

Personally, I don't know of a tremendous number of attacks where the burglars went through the front of tge safe by either prying, cutting or beating thier way in. Generally speaking the front is the hardest part to defeat. Given some basic tools and know how and you can be through the sides/bottom relatively quickly.

Mountain, what I meant was, install it in such a way to limit the ability to access the sides, and bolt it to the floor so they can't topple it and work on it with leverage. You can put shelving around it, build a wall next to it, brick it into the foundation etc.

As for brands, Knox is a name most like, myself i went with a used Mosler, but being a little more remote, I needed a somewhat tougher, and tool resistant safe. Weighing in at 2,000 lbs and being 5 ft by 2 1/2 ft by 3 ft, it fits that bill nicely.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:32   #16
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I like my Sturdy safe
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:49   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post

Mountain, what I meant was, install it in such a way to limit the ability to access the sides, and bolt it to the floor so they can't topple it and work on it with leverage. You can put shelving around it, build a wall next to it, brick it into the foundation etc.

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Location Location Location...

Survival/Preparedness Forum

Anybody breaking into that is going to be awhile..
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:00   #18
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SFCSMITH(RET), that is a great location! They could have a concrete saw and be there for a very long while. That's the kind of setup I'm looking for. It's not going to keep a pro or a determined person with time out, but it will make most people say it's not worth it.

The worse the economy gets the more desperate people will become. Sadly, I think the time will come when my house is broken into. If not before before it hits the fan definitely after. I'd feel better knowing I've protected them as best as possible.

Once I get the gun safe squared away I'm going to work on securing a lower level bedroom where I can keep my food storage for the same reason.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:10   #19
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if the badguys know you have a safe and come prepared ( saws-all), they will not be delayed very long. The key is to keep your firearms hobby on the down low so that a burglar who happens to choose your home, isnt ready for the safe or doesnt have enough buddies to move it. Remember... everyone know somebody who knows somebody who is related to a thug. If you want to broadcast that you own 3 SCAR 308's and half a dozen colt pythons.... well, sooner or later some thug is going to hear about it.

My rule on guns safes is very simple:

1. It cant be moved out of the house by 2 guys
2. Its cant be broken into with pry tools

Thats about as reasonable as you can get because a half a dozen guys can carry just about anything and cutting tools are exactly that. I feel like the best defense is not to talk about fight club as they say. That and set your home up so that a burglar would rather break into another house. ( Dog, Cameras, Alarm, Good doors and frames, storm windows, clear view of your home from passer-bys)
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:55   #20
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When I think of a "pro", I think someone who is going to exploit the lock control mechanism (dial or combination pad). If the person knowns how to do this (and has the proper tools), you aren't keeping them out, just buying yourself more time.

Most safes use 12 gauge steel, this is very thin. The average burglar using the tools from an average garage will eventually get into these, with a lttle luck and know-how.

Buy the thickest steel you can find. The Sturdy Safe looks like the best bang-for-the-buck option I have found. They only carry an RSC rating, but that's about the best you're going to find unless you go to a jewelry or bank safe.

My goal, if I can buy a house soon, is to build a concrete room and put a vault door on it. The vault doors cost about the same as a good safe, but you have much better protectionand more room. I also want to make mine my tornado shelter.
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