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Old 02-11-2013, 19:35   #51
69HEMI-R/T
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I don't care how many times you try to convince me the driver could have just accidently killed that man' sons, and not been drunk, He will walk here in Texas. Count on it.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:38   #52
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Originally Posted by xromad View Post
Jury Nullification for $1000, Alex.
F.T.M.F.W.

IMO, driving after having some arbitrary number of drinks should not be illegal. As long as the operator is made to take full responsibility for any consequences of his actions.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:39   #53
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FWIW, Texas still has "adequate cause" and "sudden passion" laws which have allowed people to walk for things ranging from shooting a guy who made your teenage daughter pregnant to shooting an adulterer off your wife.

19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:
(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool reflection.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:41   #54
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Given what we know from the brief article I'm not inclined to agree with the mob here. The man's truck broke down (possibly due to his negligence), so instead of calling a tow truck he has his son's push the truck along a county road late at night (almost midnight) in complete darkness (in a curve?) in an attempt to get it started. Someone comes down the road and collides with a disabled dark object. It could just as easily been your wife or child who hit the truck. An accident, but 'Mr. I can't get my truck started' decides to shoot victim #3 after he negligently put victims #1 & #2 at great risk, costing them their lives.

The intoxicated driver obviously has liability but I don't buy the concept that it's exclusive, or that it justifies murder.
I agree.

Especially if he was close enough to walk home and get his gun. If it is too dark and it is not safe to push the car, lock it up, walk home, and deal with it in the morning when it is light out.

I would think a big thing in the court and juries eyes is, did he know if the driver was drunk or not. If he just shot someone without knowing, then he should go to jail. If he knew for a fact the guy was drunk, then he stands a greater chance of getting off. Proving that one way or another I think will be difficult though.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:46   #55
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Maybe he gets manslaughter or maybe he gets off for temporary insanity. When you see your children die before your eyes and the perp walking away, it is not too far fetched to think he might have gone into an emotional rage he had no control over.

Not guilty by way of horror and grief induced temporary insanity.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:48   #56
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I'd vote to convict for littering, fine him $5 and move on to the next case.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:51   #57
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From the info in article. HE left scene, went home, got gun, came back and committed FIRST DEGREE, PREMEDITADED MURDER.
I feel bad for his loss. If he had beat up the driver I could see him getting a pass. Acting in momentary anger/loss would be one thing.
Unless other info. If I was on jury I would (likely) vote guilty on manslaghter. (most likely charge)
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:51   #58
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All I can say is he's getting a "not guilty" from this juror.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:54   #59
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So am I right to understand that this shooting was not in self-defense? While I feel for him and for his loss, his actions were absolutely inappropriate and unjustified under the law. Keep in mind that our legal system isn't based on whether the drunk driver deserved it, the decision to charge the shooter is based on whether the shooter broke the law. In this case, he is not going to walk. Having said that, I am glad I'm not going to be sitting on his jury because I would hate to have to convict him.
Some people deserve it... and jury nullification comes to mind.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:54   #60
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If he knew for a fact the guy was drunk, then he stands a greater chance of getting off.
And this is the crux. There are medical conditions (illustrated in many posts here) that mimic inebriation and he could have very well murdered say, an epileptic. HH
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:59   #61
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And this is the crux. There are medical conditions (illustrated in many posts here) that mimic inebriation and he could have very well murdered say, an epileptic. HH
Exactly.
Epilepcy, diabetic reaction, etc..... For all he knew the guy could have got a concussion from the wreck and was wobbling around looking drunk from a head injury.
What can be proven though will be hard.
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:00   #62
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Just out of curiosity, those of you who would vote "not guilty," you would vote this way based on what? He is clearly guilty of something. Maybe not murder, but manslaughter for sure. Keep in mind that this is not about the drunk driving ******* deserving punishment, and this case is pretty cut and dry at the moment. The way it seems, guy's truck broke down on a dark road, he had his 2 kids come out and push (on a dark road), drunk driver slammed into the rear end of his truck and killed his 2 kids. And then, it seems that the guy went into his house, got his gun, came out and shot the drunk driver. So, on what premise can you actually acquit this guy? He directly put his own kids in danger, and then denied the guy his constitutional rights by taking the law into his own hands.

And what if the guy had not been drunk, but had been rounding a dark curve and didn't see the stalled vehicle until it was too late? Would you not blame the father in that case?

And let's not forget that these kinds of actions (and 3 pages of people defending these actions) give the antis more fuel against us.

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Old 02-11-2013, 20:02   #63
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He was wrong. This is exactly what the antis hope for. We need to abide by the law.


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Old 02-11-2013, 20:05   #64
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wasn't it Texas where the guy shot his son's (grandson) molester in the company of LE and walked.
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:05   #65
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I don't advocate vigilantism. Hell, up until now I wasn't sure I could even spell it.
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:06   #66
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All I can say is he's getting a "not guilty" from this juror.
Make that two "not guilty".
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:09   #67
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So can the father of the drunk driver go shoot the guy that killed his son?

Does he also get a walk?
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:10   #68
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So what should happen if the driver is not drunk?

What if he had a stroke?

What if he had a heart attack?

What if he was texting?

What if he was rushing to a hospital because his wife was having a baby?

Or to save his child that was sick?

He was drunk.

What if he was superman, and the round bounced off his head and spun on the floor?
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:13   #69
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And let's not forget that these kinds of actions (and 3 pages of people defending these actions) give the antis more fuel against us.
Newsflash:

We could be honest law abiding church going Christians who give generously to each charity on the planet, and the anti's would still hate us because we own.........(gasp) black evil looking GUNS.

Wake up. Anti's want us to live they way they live.
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:13   #70
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While I feel for him and for his loss, his actions were absolutely inappropriate and unjustified under the law.
I agree with you, there's no we we can or should make this kind of conduct legal. Having said that, I hope he walks, and I don't think I'd vote to convict him if I was on that jury.
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:13   #71
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i can't say he was right in shooting the guy, but i can't say he was wrong either.

as i sit here trying to imagine what it must have been like to watch his 2 young sons crushed between 2 motor vehicles i can't say i'd have done it any differently. i can say though that regardless of how it all plays out i'd spend the rest of my life huddled in a catatonic stupor wherever the authorities decided to stick my empty husk.
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:14   #72
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Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
So can the father of the drunk driver go shoot the guy that killed his son?

Does he also get a walk?
The drunk driver was breaking the law when he killed those kids.

I don't know what the law in Tx is about pushing a disabled vehicle on a thoroughfare, but I seriously doubt it is the same level as driving with a 0.175BAC

Anyways, here is a proposal to you - do what you would do, and allow other people to do what they would do.

eh?
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:15   #73
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I agree with you, there's no we we can or should make this kind of conduct legal. Having said that, I hope he walks, and I don't think I'd vote to convict him if I was on that jury.

Will you make up your frigging mind already???!!??!!??

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Old 02-11-2013, 20:18   #74
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Just out of curiosity, those of you who would vote "not guilty," you would vote this way based on what?
My emotions. I'm not ashamed to say it.

I don't think my emotions are a good basis to write laws, and I 100% agree with the laws that make behavior like this illegal. But if I were to be put in the position of having to judge that man, and if I were to try to imagine what I'd be feeling if I watched some drunk smear my kids all over the road... I'd want to bring that ******* back to life so I could shoot him in the face some more.
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Old 02-11-2013, 20:20   #75
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Just out of curiosity, those of you who would vote "not guilty," you would vote this way based on what?
Based on the drunk guy just ran over and killed two of his kids.

WHEN you have kids you will understand. It sucks, but guess what? Many of our laws are based almost wholly on "emotion" and "feeling" than on logic.

Ever wondered why you (me, he, she) can't buy scotch at 4:30am?

Ever wonder why men can walk around topless but women can't?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
He is clearly guilty of something. Maybe not murder, but manslaughter for sure. Keep in mind that this is not about the drunk driving ******* deserving punishment, and this case is pretty cut and dry at the moment. The way it seems, guy's truck broke down on a dark road, he had his 2 kids come out and push (on a dark road), drunk driver slammed into the rear end of his truck and killed his 2 kids. And then, it seems that the guy went into his house, got his gun, came out and shot the drunk driver. So, on what premise can you actually acquit this guy? He directly put his own kids in danger, and then denied the guy his constitutional rights by taking the law into his own hands.
The drunk driver cashed in his constitutional rights the minute he opened the FRONT DOOR of his car and got behind the wheel.

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And what if the guy had not been drunk, but had been rounding a dark curve and didn't see the stalled vehicle until it was too late? Would you not blame the father in that case?
That, would have been different. What if...what if we stick with what actually happened?

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And let's not forget that these kinds of actions (and 3 pages of people defending these actions) give the antis more fuel against us.
Personally, I don't give two ****s about what "antis" think. It would have been the same to me if he'd gone home for a machete and chopped the guy up in 10000 tiny pieces by the roadside.

Drunk drivers really do deserve roadside execution, particularly since the actions of booze on human bodies tend to make their odds of surviving such an incident greater, it seems.
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