[Gallium]

Originally Posted by jilverthor

As much as I hate taxes, I have not reached the point that I will spend money just to keep the government from getting a smaller portion. As such, my objective is to have the largest increase in net worth (legally) rather than to minimize the taxes.

At some point I may develop enough spite that I am willing to accept less myself just to keep the government from getting as much.

I think I have, or did for a few years, and I did use that exception Dana mentions, earlier in the previous decade to spend a fair penny on a vehicle for a one time tax deduction - and the numbers worked.

For me it is not spite, it is control.

If I work 40hrs a week, my salary (made up numbers) is $1000/week, and I take home $787 after taxes/before healthcare.

If I work 50hrs a week, my salary is $1375 and I take home ?

If I work 70hrs, salary = $2k~ and I take home how much?


If anything, when I am working overtime the government should tax me at a LESSER rate, since I am displacing much opportunity cost to earn that money. It is already costing me more than "normal" to earn it, and then after I gave up sleep, welfare checks, WIC food stamps/etc, I have to pay above and beyond what the guy who worked 40hrs/week paid.

Yes, irrational and not easily fixed, but it is my rant.

[DanaT]

Originally Posted by TX OMFS

Some of this is philosophical, as in what is your end goal and how do you look at life. I assume we're both in high tax brackets. I hate debt and I want cash to pay my debt. I'd rather drive my older vehicle, live a simpler life, pay more taxes, and have more cash in my pocket (or in my case to send to Sallie Mae). If I were in the market for "stuff" then the strategy of buying things to be written off would make sense.

It depends what "stuff" it is.

Debt for appreciating assets is OK. For example, I am searching for some property in Breckenridge or Winter Park, etc.

I think real-estate is good to have.

I think tax deferred investments are good.

But then I do like cars...bad habit that one loses money on but at some point I will die so at some point I will do what I enjoy. I also spend more on shooting than I should. And food. And I enjoy taking the family on vacations (of course for the most part i travel so much that I get good "discounts" on vacations.. for example last summer the family went to europe for a while..we stayed in my apartment so that was essentially free for a large part of the trip other than food)

[DanaT]

Originally Posted by jilverthor

As much as I hate taxes, I have not reached the point that I will spend money just to keep the government from getting a smaller portion. As such, my objective is to have the largest increase in net worth (legally) rather than to minimize the taxes.

At some point I may develop enough spite that I am willing to accept less myself just to keep the government from getting as much.

One thing that I have done, is that although I work for foreign company I also partly (more than 50%) own a small medical company. My portion was financing it and developing the technology. I was able to take some very nice write-offs for capital depreciation on equipment. The pass-through loss was very high due to capital expenditures.

This is not a short term strategy to make money, but it does help with taxes.

[jilverthor]

Originally Posted by DanaT

One thing that I have done, is that although I work for foreign company I also partly (more than 50%) own a small medical company. My portion was financing it and developing the technology. I was able to take some very nice write-offs for capital depreciation on equipment. The pass-through loss was very high due to capital expenditures.

This is not a short term strategy to make money, but it does help with taxes.

Certainly, and I am all in favor of using all the deductions available. But the writeoffs just make the equipment cheaper overall, you rarely come out ahead by buying items that you don't need just for the deduction. In the business context it would imply that laws changed after the purchase such that you were able to sell a normally depreciating item for a much higher than expected value.

[TX OMFS]

This thread went from a critique of America's materialism to tax strategy.

[DanaT]

It is one in the same. People have been encouraged by tax policy to buy expensive houses.

[ChiTownPicaro]

Originally Posted by Dennis in MA

Bullbutter! See below. Completely patently false.




As I said yesterday in a different thread, we all have affordable toys that NO ONE had in the 60's and 70's. How many TV's does the average house have? How many vacations that AREN'T camping at $3/night? Home in the 'burbs with 1.2acres of land and 2,000 sf of living area? Latest/greatest toys and activities for Jr? All this cost money. We didn't trade lower anything for that. We traded an at-home mom for livin large, yo.

Couple that with the skyrocketing divorce rate and the need for 1.5 households per "baby-makers" and you HAVE to have them work. Staying married is cheaper than getting divorced.


The bottom line is this: The original post is an anecdotal story, not statistical fact. Statistical fact is debt is FALLING in this country as people get MORE responsible. Just look it up. Of course, it trumps the "this country going to hell handbasket yada yada" so you have to find something else to grouse about.

Do you know the divorce rate? Any stats to show that it is much higher than in the 60-70s.

I remember it being around pretty low. According to this website it is 3.5 per 1,000 people.

http://www.divorcerate.org

Wikipedia has different stats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography

But either way I don't believe it is skyrocketing.

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by TX OMFS

Assuming you keep the job and don't become disabled.

The job comes with very, very good disability insurance. And with any luck, if I don't keep the job it'll be because I leave for another amazing opportunity.

But yes, I acknowledge that there's risk involved. So what? You can't win if you don't play. I borrowed money to invest in an opportunity, not a certainty. So far my luck has been good. That may change. It won't change the underlying fact that if I hadn't taken the debt, I wouldn't have the opportunity in the first place.

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro

Do you know the divorce rate? Any stats to show that it is much higher than in the 60-70s.
<snip>
But either way I don't believe it is skyrocketing.

It's not. There are two basic ways to measure it

1) By fraction of marriages that end in divorce (flat since the 70s)



2) By fraction of the population that has been divorced (dropping steadily since a peak at ~1980)



The fact that the second line is decreasing while the first is flat implies that the people who get divorced are getting, on average, multiple divorces.

[DustyJacket]

until recently, the only thing not paid for was my house. (It is 60%-70% paid off) and I am helping my daughter with we college so she will not have loans. No credit card debt, either.

Unfortunately, my car died for good and I had to finance a new one. Got the smallest Ford, and 0% financing, so I am kinda OK with that.

I just hate being in debt.

the middle class is getting hammered by more property taxes to pay for falling home prices and fewer homeowners, good-sized utility increases due to more defaults, and so on....... at least I am being hammered.

Everyone wants more from me, but my employer doesn't want to give me any more. Savings account is dimishing...... We don't eat out any more. Hanging on....

[InGodWeTrust]

If we look at our stupid governments spending. it's no wonder people think it is o.k. to live way beyond your means.

[Needles_Kane]

Around here a nurse and cop combo(Union wages) could easily be making 250k or more hardly what I would call "middle class". Also, would love to hear the divorce stats on that coupling. I'm sure some people would look at my car, where I live and say I'm lower middle class and that's just fine with me, I know I'll be retired in my 50's while they're still humping it to keep up with their affluent neighbors. Most of these people are afraid of loosing their social status and shallow friendships by not having the best or living in the best area with the best schools.

[ChiTownPicaro]

If we could just end Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, our middle class would expand beyond all of our expectations. Unfortunately it is the useless parasites on these programs that are stealing our wealth and demanding socialism in order to support their worthless unproductive lives. Down with Medicare and down with Medicaid! End Social Security for the betterment of our nation!

[Rabbi]

Originally Posted by Needles_Kane

Around here a nurse and cop combo(Union wages) could easily be making 250k or more hardly what I would call "middle class".

I would bet you cant find data to support that statement.

Nurses and cops making over 125K is not normal in any geographic region. Very few do. That would make it hard to play the "easily" card. In both cases you would have to find people in the very top percentiles of income and then they would have to find each other. It happens but not "easily" (often)

[jilverthor]

Originally Posted by DanaT

It is one in the same. People have been encouraged by tax policy to buy expensive houses.

On that we certainly agree.

Additionally, many people want what their parents had when they moved out. The problem being they don't think about what they had when they were kids and finance a lifestyle that is unsustainable without sacrificing retirement. It is also hurt by the number of new gadgets that require a recurring payment (cable, cell phone, internet, and many things I am forgetting). $200 or more for a device isn't that hard, but the $2k plus contract required is killer.

[Needles_Kane]

Look at the salaries of municipalities in DuPage, Lake and McHenry counties and you'll see high salaries for police officers particularly any with supervisory duties. That's what over two decades of 4% raisies can do. Check out The Better Gov .org and type in any town outside Chicago and you'll see Police Sargs making well above 100k. It's not uncommon for Surgical nurses to make over 100k either.

[Rabbi]

Originally Posted by Needles_Kane

Look at the salaries of municipalities in DuPage, Lake and McHenry counties and you'll see high salaries for police officers particularly any with supervisory duties. That's what over two decades of 4% raisies can do. Check out The Better Gov .org and type in any town outside Chicago and you'll see Police Sargs making well above 100k. It's not uncommon for Surgical nurses to make over 100k either.

Exactly. Pointing out what supervisors CAN make and what highly specilized nurses make....doesnt equal "easily" when it comes to the specific example of a cop and a nurse. It just means it can be done.

[Restless28]

Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro

If we could just end Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, our middle class would expand beyond all of our expectations. Unfortunately it is the useless parasites on these programs that are stealing our wealth and demanding socialism in order to support their worthless unproductive lives. Down with Medicare and down with Medicaid! End Social Security for the betterment of our nation!

Isn't is amazing how Medicare and Social Security have evolved? IIRC, FDR sold it as "insurance".

The Progressives have really outdone themselves.

[DustyJacket]

Originally Posted by Restless28

FDR sold it as "insurance".

Originally, Social Security was sold as a savings account for retirement, or so said my father who was around when that came about.

[PaulMason]

Originally Posted by Rabbi

Exactly. Pointing out what supervisors CAN make and what highly specilized nurses make....doesnt equal "easily" when it comes to the specific example of a cop and a nurse. It just means it can be done.

So, what do you think of the chart?


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...5#post19960205

[stk10767]

Originally Posted by Rabbi

I would bet you cant find data to support that statement.

Nurses and cops making over 125K is not normal in any geographic region. Very few do. That would make it hard to play the "easily" card. In both cases you would have to find people in the very top percentiles of income and then they would have to find each other. It happens but not "easily" (often)

I agree Rabbi. I live in the North East and I am personal friends with a local police Sgt. He makes ~115k. His wife, an ICU nurse with seniority makes about the same~110k. After overtime, they MAY be approaching 250k, but even that's a stretch. And we are talking the North Ease here, some of the best hospitals and highest paid cops. So it is not 'easily' done as previously stated.

[Rabbi]

Originally Posted by PaulMason

So, what do you think of the chart?


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...5#post19960205

I see no chart. It says it is no longer available.

[PaulMason]

Originally Posted by Rabbi

I see no chart. It says it is no longer available.

Originally Posted by PaulMason

Go to Figure #6 - click on the title below to go to the site.

It is there - click on the title of the image

"The Rise and Consequences ..."

The Rise and Consequences of Inequality in the United States: charts

The Rise and Consequences of Inequality in the United States: charts

[devildog2067]

"This document has either been removed or made private by its owner"

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by Needles_Kane

Around here a nurse and cop combo(Union wages) could easily be making 250k or more hardly what I would call "middle class".

A household income in the $250k+ range would put the earners in the top 2% (Census Bureau income distribution tables).

I'm sure you can find some, but I seriously doubt you can find many.