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Old 02-10-2013, 10:03   #1
cfr
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Does .40 cause flinching more than other calibers?

My Glock 22 was my first semi auto. I couldnt shoot it well for a long time, until I did the Snap Cap drill and realized I was flinching. Was able to overcome it with time.

Then I got more into shooting my PPQ 9MM and a Glock 26. I've always been able to shoot them pretty decent, life was good for about a year.

Then came the current ammo shortage. I found some .40, and naturally gravitated back to my 22. I went out both a few weeks ago and yesterday, and couldnt hit anything. I realized my flinch was now back with a vengance.

I dry fire, shoot a .22 caliber, and use Snaps Caps when needed. So I understand how to move past this issue. My problem here is I've already worked through this issue, then it came back.

So I need to ask: Does the .40 cause more flinching than other calibers? I'm looking to "blame" the caliber simply because I dont see anything else that would have changed. To be clear though, I know that I'm the problem, NOT the caliber.

It should be noted that due to finances and my life style, I can really only go shooting about once every three weeks, and shoot approximately 200 rounds. This isn't about to change anytime soon.

It should also be noted that Ive never conciously minded the "snappiness" of the .40, and have never considered myself a recoil sensistive person. However, if I need to go back up this learning curve every time I go back to the .40, thats a problem.

Thanks!
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:15   #2
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I bring a G22 and my 9mm CZ to the range with me about once a week. I know exactly what you are talking about.

I think the snapiness of the .40 may cause more flinching than other calibers and requires a bit more discipline to overcome and shoot well. As you mention, snap caps at the range are great for that. But, if you don't fire the .40 frequently enough, I think you can lose that level of focus required to shoot it well.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:15   #3
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I don't like the 40 S&W round because of the 'snappy' recoil. I learned shooting on 22's, will always shoot 22's and then next shot shotguns. 12,16, and 20 gauge. My favorite is the 20gauge. First centerfire handgun was 357 then 45ACP. Got used to both, don't mind the 45ACP in a Colt Commander as well as my G36. Shoot way more 38 special than 357, as my favorite revolver is the S&W model 10
I did have a 40 S&W Sigma. Got rid of it. Didn't like the gun or the 'snappy' recoil. To each his own.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:16   #4
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:18   #5
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IMO the caliber doesn't cause the flinch.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:20   #6
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Shoot what you shoot the best. Everyone is different. If I were you, after the current "crisis"; I would swap the .40 for another 9MM of your choice and stock up on ammo once the craze is over.It sounds like time constraints and other things limit you to the time you can put into practice so I would use that time to develop your skills as best you can and it sounds like that would be pulling the trigger on a 9MM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:22   #7
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greater torque ina 40
try lighter bulletts
fav is 165
look for fed border patrol 135s
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:01   #8
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I guess it depends on what you're used to.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:07   #9
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compared to a 22, yes.

compared to a 44, no.

all in context. being on the back end of the gun won't hurt you. rememeber that, and the flinching seems to get much less noticable. (no...that's not an insult. it's kind of a psychological thing)
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:19   #10
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Greater recoil in a gun, greater chance of inducing a flinch.

.40 has more recoil than 9mm, so yes it does have a greater ability to induce flinching. It varies greatly with the shooter and their experience. A lot of inexperienced shooters will develop a flinch from the 9mm.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:23   #11
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No. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post
My Glock 22 was my first semi auto. I couldnt shoot it well for a long time, until I did the Snap Cap drill and realized I was flinching. Was able to overcome it with time.

Then I got more into shooting my PPQ 9MM and a Glock 26. I've always been able to shoot them pretty decent, life was good for about a year.

Then came the current ammo shortage. I found some .40, and naturally gravitated back to my 22. I went out both a few weeks ago and yesterday, and couldnt hit anything. I realized my flinch was now back with a vengance.

I dry fire, shoot a .22 caliber, and use Snaps Caps when needed. So I understand how to move past this issue. My problem here is I've already worked through this issue, then it came back.

So I need to ask: Does the .40 cause more flinching than other calibers? I'm looking to "blame" the caliber simply because I dont see anything else that would have changed. To be clear though, I know that I'm the problem, NOT the caliber.

It should be noted that due to finances and my life style, I can really only go shooting about once every three weeks, and shoot approximately 200 rounds. This isn't about to change anytime soon.

It should also be noted that Ive never conciously minded the "snappiness" of the .40, and have never considered myself a recoil sensistive person. However, if I need to go back up this learning curve every time I go back to the .40, thats a problem.

Thanks!
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:00   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
Greater recoil in a gun, greater chance of inducing a flinch.

.40 has more recoil than 9mm, so yes it does have a greater ability to induce flinching. It varies greatly with the shooter and their experience. A lot of inexperienced shooters will develop a flinch from the 9mm.
This is good analysis.

I have both a Glock 22 and an STI 2011 with full length slide and frame. The Glock weighs 24 oz. empty, the STI 42 oz. Big difference in felt recoil with 180+PF loads.

Having said that you are right that shooting the G22 more would help you get over flinch. Alternatively, you have to somehow convince yourself the recoil in the G22 is no big deal.
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:14   #13
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I guess it depends on what you're used to.
This... Growing up I was taught to shoot what we were gonna be using, unless we were just killing cans and cardboard boxes... Snap caps and very small calibers help you get familiar with trigger pull, but not so much familiar with what a service size firearm is...

My father bought me a 1911 .45 when I was in the 10th grade and I felt a little down about my new low-power pistol in regard to what we were raised on and used to...

My dad used to load a weapon for us with his back turned(or not load it), then get use to do a slow controlled fire for accuracy on a distant target... Sometimes he'd load it live 5 times in a row, then not actually load a round to see our reaction when the trigger pulled... Sometimed 5 empty rounds in a row, then a live one and everything in between... This would be done with everything from a .38 special, .44 mag, 416 rem magnum, etc... This will immune your senses...

Moral to my opinion is that it's what bac1023 stated, condition is everything... Condition a shooter to something very small or something that doesn't go bang at all, and most anything will surprise your senses after that... Nothing to do with any sort of physicallity or muscle man toughness, just what your senses are ready for and accustomed to...

Disclaimer to this is when I was growing up it was incomparably cheaper to shoot full power ammo than it is today, and I completely understand not being able to blast bombs from your gun with any sort of affordability in these times...
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:20   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keith View Post
I don't like the 40 S&W round because of the 'snappy' recoil. I learned shooting on 22's, will always shoot 22's and then next shot shotguns. 12,16, and 20 gauge. My favorite is the 20gauge. First centerfire handgun was 357 then 45ACP. Got used to both, don't mind the 45ACP in a Colt Commander as well as my G36. Shoot way more 38 special than 357, as my favorite revolver is the S&W model 10
I did have a 40 S&W Sigma. Got rid of it. Didn't like the gun or the 'snappy' recoil. To each his own.
I agree tried the 40 but I would rather shoot the 9mm or go to a 45. The 20 guage is my favorite shotgun. My son laughs at me because I would rather shoot a model 10 than any other pistol.
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:26   #15
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I think on lightweight pistols it's definitely more flinch-enducing than heavier ones. My P226 all-stainess pistol in .40 S&W actually recoils considerably less shooting 180 GR Lawmen than my old Sig folded-slide 9 millimeter did.
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:27   #16
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What a bunch of wimps. Get real. Some of you are acting like the 40 S&W is going to rip your hand and arm off each time you shoot it.

In a Glock 22 frame, using the empty weight of 1.43 lb (0.65kg), the following was obtained:

9 mm Luger: Recoil Impulse of 0.78 ms; Recoil Velocity of 17.55 ft/s (5.3 m/s); Recoil Energy of 6.84 ft·lbf (9.3 J)

.357 SIG: Recoil Impulse of 1.06 ms; Recoil velocity of 23.78 ft/s (7.2 m/s); Recoil Energy of 12.56 ft·lbf (17.0 J)

.40 S&W: Recoil impulse of 0.88 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.73 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 8.64 ft·lbf (11.7 J)

In a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.125 lb (1.417 kg), the following was obtained: .

44 Remington Magnum: Recoil impulse of 1.91 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.69 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 18.81 ft·lbf (25.5 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 460 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.460 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.14 ms; Recoil Velocity of 28.91 ft/s (8.8 m/s); Recoil Energy of 45.43 ft·lbf (61.6 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 500 4.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.500 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.76 ms; Recoil Velocity of 34.63 ft/s (10.6 m/s); Recoil Energy of 65.17 ft·lbf (88.4 J)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil

Learn proper technique and quit letting yourselves be influenced by internet forum BS and spin, generated by people, on the most part, that do not know their anus from a hole in the ground and man up.

I prefer 40 S&W in small carry guns, and I shoot them and survive to tell the tale.

RJ

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Old 02-10-2013, 13:44   #17
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You are generally running a 160-180 gn bullet with 35,000 psi of pressure behind it out of gun with a frame and weight designed around a 115-124 gn bullet with 35,000 psi behind it. It will be different.

Now, even though it is based on a 9mm frame my XD tactical 5" makes the .40 a *****cat. It is easier to shoot than my G-22C .

I can't wait to hear the cries of disappointment from those so eagerly awaiting the XDS in .40. Their is going to be a lot of headshaking as they try to figure out why a 180 gn bullet is so uncomfortable to shoot (at 35,000 psi) verses the ease of shooting the .45 230 (at 24,000 psi).
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:49   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keith View Post
I don't like the 40 S&W round because of the 'snappy' recoil. I learned shooting on 22's, will always shoot 22's and then next shot shotguns. 12,16, and 20 gauge. My favorite is the 20gauge. First centerfire handgun was 357 then 45ACP. Got used to both, don't mind the 45ACP in a Colt Commander as well as my G36. Shoot way more 38 special than 357, as my favorite revolver is the S&W model 10
I did have a 40 S&W Sigma. Got rid of it. Didn't like the gun or the 'snappy' recoil. To each his own.
What are you saying about the G36?

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Old 02-10-2013, 13:56   #19
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Originally Posted by RJ's Guns View Post
What a bunch of wimps. Get real. Some of you are acting like the 40 S&W is going to rip your hand and arm off each time you shoot it.

In a Glock 22 frame, using the empty weight of 1.43 lb (0.65kg), the following was obtained:

9 mm Luger: Recoil Impulse of 0.78 ms; Recoil Velocity of 17.55 ft/s (5.3 m/s); Recoil Energy of 6.84 ft·lbf (9.3 J)

.357 SIG: Recoil Impulse of 1.06 ms; Recoil velocity of 23.78 ft/s (7.2 m/s); Recoil Energy of 12.56 ft·lbf (17.0 J)

.40 S&W: Recoil impulse of 0.88 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.73 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 8.64 ft·lbf (11.7 J)

In a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.125 lb (1.417 kg), the following was obtained: .

44 Remington Magnum: Recoil impulse of 1.91 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.69 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 18.81 ft·lbf (25.5 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 460 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.460 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.14 ms; Recoil Velocity of 28.91 ft/s (8.8 m/s); Recoil Energy of 45.43 ft·lbf (61.6 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 500 4.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.500 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.76 ms; Recoil Velocity of 34.63 ft/s (10.6 m/s); Recoil Energy of 65.17 ft·lbf (88.4 J)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil

Learn proper technique and quit letting yourselves be influenced by internet forum BS and spin, generated by people, on the most part, that do not know their anus from a hole in the ground and man up.

I prefer 40 S&W in small carry guns, and I shoot them and survive to tell the tale.

RJ
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Old 02-10-2013, 14:05   #20
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My very first handgun was a 7.5" stainless Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum. I guess I got over recoil fairly quickly. My next handgun was a Star Starfire M40 in .40, which is small, but all steel. It didn't feel too snappy after a wooden handled .44 Magnum. I will admit that the lightweight G23 and G27 have more snap than the Glock 9's or 45's but it's not enough to not be able to be easily worked through.
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Old 02-10-2013, 14:10   #21
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I taught a 6 person beginner class yesterday, 3 couples. I normally don't shoot .40 in beginning classes, but two of the couples just bought them a G22 and G23. By the end of the day they all were grouping fist size or smaller at 7 yards.

Two main things I'll work on to stop shot anticipation is first the trigger pull then a mental lesson to yourself. On the trigger let's say you have a 5# trigger, you're on target focused on the front sight and start the pull when you get about to about 4 pounds of pressure just slowly keeping adding more 4.4, .5, .6 etc. Don't think about pulling through, just keep adding a little more and little more. This will help to bring the surprise back to the trigger break.

The other may sound a little odd, but I can tell you from experience it works. It's not a mechanical shooting issue as much as it is a mental issue. It isn't a natural thing to have an "explosion" going off 2ft in front of your face. If you think about it it's probably more natural to flinch than not to flinch. Tell yourself; it is going to go bang, but that's ok, it isn't going to hurt me, I've done this many times and it hasn't hurt me, stay steady it won't hurt me. The recoil will happen, I'll recover from it and it won't hurt me.

You can practice both of these at home before and during dryfire. Then when you get to the range start out with these principles in mind and begin with slow fire. It will help.
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Old 02-10-2013, 14:58   #22
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On every thread that mentions the snappiness of the .40, some macho man always comes along telling everyone to "man up" and stop being a wimp.

We don't all measure our manhood by the caliber we shoot.
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Old 02-10-2013, 15:38   #23
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Not so much "man up" as "learn how to shoot."
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Old 02-10-2013, 15:49   #24
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The other may sound a little odd, but I can tell you from experience it works. It's not a mechanical shooting issue as much as it is a mental issue. It isn't a natural thing to have an "explosion" going off 2ft in front of your face.[/b]

You can practice both of these at home before and during dryfire. Then when you get to the range start out with these principles in mind and begin with slow fire. It will help.
This is what I was trying to say with this in my earlier post.... "Alternatively, you have to somehow convince yourself the recoil in the G22 is no big deal.".

From the OP I think he realizes it's a mental thing, but his instincts are not cooperating too well.

I agree with starting most sessions with a few slow fire groups to ingrain accuracy, and then proceed to drills. Good practice when you are not flinching.

However, as an alternative approach he might try something a friend did for a time. He shot a G22 in IPSC, back when 175 was PF floor for major. When he first began shooting he would start practice sessions by shooting 50-100 rounds into a target pretty fast with no real attempt at great accuracy. This to de-sensitize himself to recoil. That and a lot of practice worked out for him, as he became an excellent shooter with that G22, and after a time did not require the de-sensitize drill.

I realize the OP shoots a few hundred rounds a session, but it might be worthwhile to give the above a try with perhaps a mag or two full, and then proceed to shooting for groups.
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Old 02-10-2013, 15:54   #25
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On every thread that mentions the snappiness of the .40, some macho man always comes along telling everyone to "man up" and stop being a wimp.

We don't all measure our manhood by the caliber we shoot.
So true....there's always a few.

HEY.....my caliber is bigger than yours.
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