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Old 02-10-2013, 09:43   #151
wprebeck
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Figures you'd be here.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:49   #152
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Figures you'd be here.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:07   #153
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If what he claims is true (rampant open racism within the LAPD), it would have been public a long time ago. LAPD has a very large number of minority officers, supervisors and commanders. They wouldn't be sitting idly by when officers are acting the way Dorner claims. What I think happened is a couple off-color jokes (okay, pun slightly intended) that the "victims" were in on, and a willing part of because they aren't thinskinned crybabies. Dorner is a crybaby and an underperformer who couldn't handle streetwork, modern life and people wo don't fit his narrow definition of what they should be. He's also a documented, proven liar.
I may be inviting flame bait but to believe that the LAPD with the history that it has that it isn't rampant with racism and corruption is fantasy. What I think happened is that Dorner reported abuse and the person that he accused was protected and they chose to smear his name and destroy his career to make him an example. Yeah, he may have lost it or could it be that after following procedure and trying to go by the book to get justice only thing he got was "Just Us".

In the end when you die only thing you have is your name and what is associated with it when people think of you. His name as well as his career is ruined. I think he is using the few options he feels he has to get that name back. I'm not saying what he is doing is right, but I can empathize. I also think others in LAPD can too since they have decided to reopen the investigation into Dorners firing.

Personally, I don't think they'll ever capture him alive unless the investigation verdict changes.

The lesson here is watch how you treat people because you never know how they'll react. Especially when they feel like their back is against the wall.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:13   #154
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Regardless of whether he was telling the truth or not, he NEEDED to be fired.

He obviously is not stable - I have gone through some (dung) in my life, and even have been so mad at a person my heart started running 100mph when he was near, but I NEVER was tempted to go shooting at anyone.


on a different note:
To add to this "domestic terrorist" thought, I wonder if he converted to a different religion-that-shall-not-be-named recently.....
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:24   #155
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[QUOTE=DustyJacket;19971090]Regardless of whether he was telling the truth or not, he NEEDED to be fired.

He obviously is not stable - I have gone through some (dung) in my life, and even have been so mad at a person my heart started running 100mph when he was near, but I NEVER was tempted to go shooting at anyone. Ah, you have been tempted, you just had the good sense and sanity not to do so.


on a different note:
To add to this "domestic terrorist" thought, I wonder if he converted to a different religion-that-shall-not-be-named recently..I wonder about this as well. He made a point in his manefesto that is not a Christian, provded that he wrote that part of it. ...[/QUOTE]
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:32   #156
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I may be inviting flame bait but
The lesson here is watch how you treat people because you never know how they'll react. Especially when they feel like their back is against the wall.
Edited out a lot ,but that last sentence is what separates weak people from strong.

A strong leader makes sure you do the right thing regardless of how someone may feel.

If we allowed non suitable people to stay in any job of trust we will fail.

Seems to me like he had ample due process and was treated with dignity and impartiality.


He chose this path.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:34   #157
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I may be inviting flame bait but to believe that the LAPD with the history that it has that it isn't rampant with racism and corruption is fantasy. What I think happened is that Dorner reported abuse and the person that he accused was protected and they chose to smear his name and destroy his career to make him an example. Yeah, he may have lost it or could it be that after following procedure and trying to go by the book to get justice only thing he got was "Just Us".

In the end when you die only thing you have is your name and what is associated with it when people think of you. His name as well as his career is ruined. I think he is using the few options he feels he has to get that name back. I'm not saying what he is doing is right, but I can empathize. I also think others in LAPD can too since they have decided to reopen the investigation into Dorners firing.

Personally, I don't think they'll ever capture him alive unless the investigation verdict changes.

The lesson here is watch how you treat people because you never know how they'll react. Especially when they feel like their back is against the wall.
Maybe the investigation was 'reopened' as a tactic to calm him down and gain time?
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:41   #158
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[QUOTE=DustyJacket;19971090]Regardless of whether he was telling the truth or not, he NEEDED to be fired.

He obviously is not stable - I have gone through some (dung) in my life, and even have been so mad at a person my heart started running 100mph when he was near, but I NEVER was tempted to go shooting at anyone.

Why did he need to get fired? Was there anything else in his LAPD career that they looked at other than the accusation that he came forward with as a reason for his dismissal?

We may not like his views (2nd Amendment, entertainment, political among them) but I don't believe he's unstable. He's just a man pushed to his limits. What you went through probably isn't the same as what he's gone through. The limit of abuse that you can take is different from his.

Everyone's limits are different.

I've gone to a couple of 2nd amendment rallies in the since January where we feel that there are people who want to take away our rights and the government talks of confiscation. I read several flags made by people who may feel their back are against the wall that read "Come and Take Them". I thought about what these people would do if they did come knocking at their door. How far would they go to get back or keep what's theirs? Would people call them unstable for doing what they needed to do to get back what's theirs?
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:47   #159
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I can see this turning into a fanboy fest in short order.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:48   #160
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Maybe the investigation was 'reopened' as a tactic to calm him down and gain time?
You could be right. I am just saying that with LAPD and other law enforcement agencies history of abuse and corruption how come LAPD gets a pass? I do believe that this could have all been prevented if someone had've looked into this outside of LAPD.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:52   #161
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Ok. Let's review...

He murders two people in an ambush attack as they sat in their car on Sunday.

Yes, that was planned.

He's publicly identified as a suspect on Wednesday evening. A few hours later, he's trying to steal a boat. He tells the victim he's fleeing to Mexico. So much for his asymmetrical warfare campaign...his instinct is to run.

Not much coolheaded planning there...he can't get the boat free. He may have been in the Navy, but he doesn't sound like he's much of a sailor, does he?

So, he abandons that idea and drives north east. Maybe he was going to attack one of his targets, maybe not. Anyway, he is spotted an LAPD officers follow him. He attacks them...but this is in reaction to them following him, as opposed to a pre-planned attack.

Fleeing the scene of that shooting (note that he didn't stand his ground to shoot it out), he comes across unsuspecting Riverside PD officers and ambushes them, killing one. Again, not a pre-planned act like the murder on Sunday, but a target of opportunity.

Let me pause to offer my thoughts and prayers to Dorner's victims, and their families...

Back to my recap:

Now, on the run, he apparently drives to Big Bear. He abandons the car, which, according to news reports, has a broken axle. He burns the car, leaving behind weapons, according to news accounts. Why leave behind guns if you have a car stashed? Why try to steal a boat in San Diego if you have a car stashed in Big Bear?

Remember, this guy lived with his mom, apparently.

So, unless he has an accomplice, he winds up in Big Bear afoot...not because of a carefully constructed battle plan, but because of a series of impulsive acts.

He burns the car. Why? A diversion? To destroy evidence? Who knows? Remember that both oars aren't in the water here. We try to look for logic in the behavior of some one who is behaving in an irrational (and homicidal) fashion. My guess...another impulsive choice, that made sense to him at the time, but a bad choice, as it drew LE up there in force.

What now? Well, unless he's prepared to go camping, he's in real trouble, due to the weather. He needs food, water and shelter. This isn't a guy who went through SERE school. If his first plan was to hop a stolen boat to Mexico, he probably didn't pack his North Face gear. So, did he have time, after the failed boat theft attempt, to prepare to hole up in Big Bear? Did he run home to his mama's house and pack for a week in the mountains in February? Did he have the time to think about the weather? Or did he flee up there on impulse (like the boat theft attempt) and discover that he really wasn't up to the task.

Bottom line, he managed to plan and carry out the first attack. There was no external pressure on him at that point. However, the recent events do not seemed to be part of a plan but and improvised escape attempt carried out under real pressure and fear of capture.

So much for his asymmetrical warfare campaign. Unless he can find shelter or transportation, he is in real trouble out there. If he is still alive, that is. After all this excitement, he's likely to crash, emotionally. Maybe depression and hopelessness set in. That could lead to suicide. A lot of cop killers commit suicide within days of their offense. Even if not suicidal, unless he has shelter, the weather conditions are life threatening.

Last thought: the allegations in the "manifesto" should be take with a huge grain of salt...it's all grandiose, self serving and it would be a mistake to assume his allegations are true.

He is (or was) driven by inner demons and serious mental illness. The "Cause" is NOT the cause, it's an excuse.






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Keep in mind his allegation against the FTO was at least two weeks after the alleged incident, and, significantly, after the FTO gave him an unsatisfactory rating.

Also keep in mind that he was in the field for just four months after completing the Academy when he was called up on Active Duty with the Navy...and was deployed for twelve months. So, he did not complete his probationary period in the usual time frame.

When he returned from the deployment, he wanted to go BACK to the Academy because he didn't feel up to going back into patrol.

That request was denied, so he goes back into patrol. That is why he had an FTO at the time he made his allegation, because he was still completing his field training.

Note also that in the manifesto he claims one of the officers who beat Rodney King is still in LAPD in a position of rank. Not true. All four officers involved in that incident (who struck King) were fired and prosecuted twice.

Finally, regarding his allegations against the FTO, independent witnesses contradicted his testimony.

Remember, all this was during the Federal Consent degree period. The Department was under the DOJ microscope and would take such an allegation seriously. For the Department to send Dorner to a Board of Rights for making a false allegation means it was sure the allegation was not only unfounded but fabricated.

He had an attorney provided by the Police Protective League (a retired LAPD captain). I can tell you, from personal observation, that LA Police Protective League attorneys zealously represent their client.

Let's not forget that he did not murder the daughter of the Internal Affairs Advocate who prosecuted the Board of Rights, nor the people who comprised the trial Board: two captains and the civilian Board member (a city employee, not an LAPD employee, who is there to provide civilian oversight of the process). Nor did he go after Chief Beck or former Chief Bratton. No, he murders the daughter of the man that DEFENDED him, and her fiancé.

He has zero credibility.

Another thought: when fired, an officer turns in his badge. Yet a badge, supposedly his, was recovered in San Diego recently. If it's his LAPD badge, he would have had to steal it. If it's a fake badge, that's also interesting. This guy is, or was, the inadequate wannabe type who happened to get hired by LAPD, but was clearly ill suited to the job.

Finally, consider the timing of all this.

Why now? He was fired years ago.

I speculate that there have been other recent stressors which caused him to turn his revenge fantasy into a reality.

The "Cause" is not the cause. The same was true of lone wolf offenders like the Unabomber (he had a manifesto, too), McVeigh and Buford Furrow. All were fundamentally homicidal mentally ill people who drummed up a political justification for their murderous acts. Dormer is simply cut from that dysfunctional cloth, with huge mental health problems and a homicidal tendency. Due to his narcissism, he needs to call attention to his imagined righteousness.

Sadly, many are taken in...

Excellent posts.




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Old 02-10-2013, 10:53   #162
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I can see this turning into a fanboy fest in short order.
Not a fanboy fest. Just seen enough injustice and lies in life to know what the media is telling you isn't always the truth. Pro 2nd Amendment people should know and understand this.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:59   #163
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Either way....I hope that this ends with no more deaths.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:06   #164
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Either way....I hope that this ends with no more deaths.
No more deaths of innocent people anyway.......
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:08   #165
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I do believe that this could have all been prevented if someone had've looked into this outside of LAPD.
Im pretty sure you havent read any of the posts but they LAPD does have civilians on their review board. Isnt that exactly what you are talking about?
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:19   #166
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Why did he need to get fired?
They may or may not have had a reason to fire him, but it is obvious NOW he needed to go. You don't want a police officer who will go off on a shooting rampage when his life turns to s***.

I spent 12+ years as a police officer of one sort or another, and have seen good ones and bad ones. I saw even more of each when I became an FTO and later a supervisor.

Some bad ones ran away (D. Hayhurst really did a number on us), some turned into bullies, and some turned to crime, and some turn into do-nothings. And now this guy starts murdering and severely injuring people.

None of them belong in uniform, regardless of the cause.

A police officer has the power of life and death over people, and has to be made of sterner stuff, and (in my old fashioned opinion) held to a high standard of self control.

I am all for second chances, but a lot of people cannot hack it as a copper.
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Last edited by DustyJacket; 02-10-2013 at 17:18..
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:41   #167
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LAPD to reopen probe into fugitive ex-cop's firing

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...x-cops-firing/

If he has successfully managed to hide himself, then maybe this will get him to settle down while the probe takes place.
Political and strategic move. But won't appease this guy unless he gets everything he wants.

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Hell, he even has a Facebook page created by folks that support him......

https://www.facebook.com/ChrisDorner187
That is the sad statement on our society.

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And potentially (and coincidentally) to the loss of his military reserve officer status, which occurred 1 Feb 2013. Remember he was still using on base facilities in the San Diego area as late as January. He would have lost access to those with his discharge. That could be another blow to his ego as it appears that this status was important to him and he blames its loss on his LAPD issues.
He's the typical loser who is nothing without the badge and gun. Everyone one of us knows those types who have to be a cop because that is all they have. Take away their badge and you take away their manhood.

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Either way....I hope that this ends with no more deaths.
Except his and his accomplices.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:11   #168
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Can we talk about putting people in jail? I'm referring to those
who fired up two old ladies delivering newspapers. Jeez.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:33   #169
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A REMINDER...
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Quote:
Quote:
WARNING: If you post in this thread, and it is deemed your purpose is to disrupt the discussion, if you post off topic comments to incite other members, if there is the slightest hint of trolling, you will suffer consequences.

Read this post before proceeding: A post from Eric re: GNG & LE oriented topics...

This is an important topic to GT LE members.
Manhunt for ex LAPD Officer

Please post links to latest news updates.

Multi-state manhunt under way for ex-LAPD cop sought in killing of officer, 2 others
Consequences = Infractions

Trying to be subtle will only exacerbate the offense.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:35   #170
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Can we talk about putting people in jail? I'm referring to those
who fired up two old ladies delivering newspapers. Jeez.
No, we may not.

There is a thread in Political Issues on that topic.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:44   #171
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This seems to be the regular; "I lost my job and my livelyhood, I have nothing to live for and plan to take others with me".

People get fired all the time and in this economy, some take it harder. I would guess this happens once a week where a guy is fired and shows up at work to do harm, only when it comes to police work guns are always present. At least once a month it makes national news, more so local news, some times its not even reported.

He snapped, he did what he did. I dont think he stays in the same mental state. He knows what he did there is no turning back. Lets hope he died in the elements.

Now if had a field expediant explosives class, I would not drive any PD vehicle that was not kept in a secured area, nor would I force entry on any places he might be held up.
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:01   #172
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Im pretty sure you havent read any of the posts but they LAPD does have civilians on their review board. Isnt that exactly what you are talking about?
Yes. They also have a public safety committee of city counsel members that oversee the department. They also were under a federal consent decree and may still be under it. The consent decree had some pretty amazing self policing requirements.

It is worth a read.

Of course that means being willing to shed biases through learning.
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:08   #173
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We've all heard compelling stories about how Dorner got a raw deal during his termination, yet we never hear the other side of the story. What is also not mentioned is that Dorner appealed this matter all the way to the California Court of Appeals, which upheld his termination.
The below link is to the Court of Appeals analysis, spelling out both sides of the case. You can draw your own conclusions as to what happened.

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx...0111003006.xml
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:10   #174
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Naturally, I can't find the article again, but I believe that one of the news articles I read claimed that up to 60% of the cabins in Big Bear sit vacant at any selected time. Or, what if he knows how to survive in a snowcave?

Meanwhile, it seems like the police are covering their bets well and watching the Mexican border for this guy.

I haven't seen too many theories on what if this guy has accomplices? We've all seen information on the splinter groups that are now supporting him. What if someone else drove the truck to Big Bear. He supposedly owns thirty guns and had five years to plan. What if he has fifteen weapons caches?

The police really have their hands full with this one.
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:19   #175
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We've all heard compelling stories about how Dorner got a raw deal during his termination, yet we never hear the other side of the story. What is also not mentioned is that Dorner appealed this matter all the way to the California Court of Appeals, which upheld his termination.
The below link is to the Court of Appeals analysis, spelling out both sides of the case. You can draw your own conclusions as to what happened.

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx...0111003006.xml
But the logic flow would be... if the LAPD and LE are corrupt, it would be fully capable of corrupting the trial court (which it must have). And surely also fully capable of corrupting the Ct of Appeals (which it must have).
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