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Old 01-29-2013, 21:33   #1
mgentry
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What are we to do?

As a Vet and a retired officer, I am not sure how I would handle an order telling me to fire on American civilians so ... what is going to happen if Obama orders the military to fire on civilians because they don't like the way he is trying to change the second amendment or they refuse to turn in their guns?
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Old 01-29-2013, 22:38   #2
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I'm still in, but well past my 8 year mark so I am pretty much free and clear to walk since I did not receive a bonus on my reenlistment. So for me, I'm just walking. What are they going to do, fire me?
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Old 01-29-2013, 23:28   #3
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I would not violate the law. No use of military against "We The People".
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:38   #4
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I think a whole lot of coppers and military folks would tell this administration to go pack sand... That is all.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:51   #5
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Mgentry..... what do you mean you're "not certain" how you'd act...?? You should be crystal clear in how you'd act!!! Do remember anything at all about your oath!!?? Your oath is/was to the Constitution....not to some megalomaniac.

Guys - I'm still active duty and I have met NO ONE that would fire on citizens. NO ONE.
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:31   #6
kreplach
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Mgentry..... what do you mean you're "not certain" how you'd act...?? You should be crystal clear in how you'd act!!! Do remember anything at all about your oath!!?? Your oath is/was to the Constitution....not to some megalomaniac.

Guys - I'm still active duty and I have met NO ONE that would fire on citizens. NO ONE.

Does anyone remember Kent State University. American Military ( National Guard) fired on U.S. citizens (students). Or the riots in 1967 in Detroit where the 101st AB was brought in when the Michigan National Guard couldn't handle it. I know people who were riding around in Jeeps mounted with .50 cal machine guns ready to fire if need be.

It is impossible to predict what disciplined groups of people will do when directed to perform acts by strong willed commanders (NCOs or Officers).
As I remember it is up to the individual soldier to determine if an order is legal or not and if he(or she) is wrong he could easily be court marshaled or worse. Did you ever see "A Few Good Men"?

Not an easy situation.

Last edited by kreplach; 02-04-2013 at 19:37.. Reason: add content
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:24   #7
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I was there in Detroit, when the National Guard came down my street just like Kreplach said. 50 Cal guns mounted on there jeeps. It did happen.
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Old 02-04-2013, 22:04   #8
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And Ike integrated schools in Little Rock with troops.

And McArthur used troops to chase the WWI bonus army out of Washington during the depression.

And Washington used troops to collect the whiskey tax.

And Lincoln used troops to keep several states from leaving what they had thought was a voluntary union.

And speaking of unions, troops were routinely used to break strikes.


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Old 02-04-2013, 22:20   #9
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I would like to think that, as Americans, every member of our military would understand that the oath they took to defend the Constitution was the ultimate order they are given. However, reality is that people join the military for lots of reasons. On one hand, it could be that you love your country so much, that service is the best way for you to show that love. On the other, you like the idea of wielding power over others.

There are going to be members of the military or a police force that don't have a problem with following unlawful orders. Consider the Chinese solders in Tiananmen Square, or the German soldiers in Auschwitz. These solders were convinced by their superiors that murdering non-combatants was justified. There will be Americans that can be convinced just the same.
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Old 02-04-2013, 23:02   #10
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Originally Posted by mgentry View Post
As a Vet and a retired officer, I am not sure how I would handle an order telling me to fire on American civilians so ... what is going to happen if Obama orders the military to fire on civilians because they don't like the way he is trying to change the second amendment or they refuse to turn in their guns?
If such a thing happens Obama will have effectively destroyed this Country as we know it. A civil conflict like none other would ensue. This is the unfortunate truth.
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Old 02-04-2013, 23:46   #11
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There is more danger of a collapse in the economy or a second deep recession, than there is of rioting over the second amendment.

The hub bub over Obama's perceived attempt to overthrow the second amendment is just another case of hysteria drummed up by the media. If you read the media with a critical eye you will see that there is no heart in the congress to make radical changes to gun laws or to even try to change the second amendment.

They may act on tightening background checks and other paper work, but, in spite of all the noise, the congress will not make radical changes that could jeopardize their ability to get reelected.

The biggest danger to this country is Obama's ineptitude in all other major issues of the day. Once the issues regarding gun control have quieted down he will have to actually produce results in regard to the economy, jobs, immigration education, energy, supreme court appointments and all of our other problems.

Remember, Presidents worry how they will go down in history. As each day passes Obama's days in office are getting fewer and fewer and he feels more and more pressure to make his mark in history. If he spends too much political capital, time, or energy on gun control he will negatively affect his legacy as President.

I am more concerned with when the shortages of guns and ammo will stabilize than I am worried about someone coming for my guns or my being confronted by a platoon of soldiers.
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Old 02-07-2013, 16:30   #12
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mgentry
1) Say "That is an unlawfull order".
2) Shoot person in face who just told you to do that. It may have been over the radio, so GO find them,then shoot them in face.

Pretend it's April 19th,1775 and that you are standing on Lexington green. Because YOU ARE.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:40   #13
ArizonaPhil
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To the OP, check your oxygen supply, you may be running out. You are spending too much time (even a nano second is too much time) worrying about something that has not and will not happen.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:47   #14
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I started a similar thread to this one and it was locked immediately. WTF?
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:49   #15
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Quote:
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To the OP, check your oxygen supply, you may be running out. You are spending too much time (even a nano second is too much time) worrying about something that has not and will not happen.
I'm not so sure it's out of the realm of possibilities. Look what happened when the ATF tried seizing the arms held by the Branch Dividians. That did not end well.

Not very hard to imagine that happening again.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:41   #16
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I'm not so sure it's out of the realm of possibilities. Look what happened when the ATF tried seizing the arms held by the Branch Dividians. That did not end well.

Not very hard to imagine that happening again.
The Dividians were shooting at the LEOs. And the POTUS didn't order anyone to shoot. I fail to see your logic.
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Old 03-04-2013, 16:44   #17
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Didn't the Feds stage the Waco final confrontation to impress the media? And didn't the BATFE raise its very own flag over the ruins as a sign of conquest? And wasn't there considerable reason to believe the first Feds shot were hit by friendly fire? And wasn't the murderer from Ruby Ridge in charge of the sacking at Waco?

At least the Feds prevented those children from being at risk for abuse - by burning them to death.


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Old 03-06-2013, 11:01   #18
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What happened shortly after WWI when the president ordered MacArthur to march on protesting former troops that only wanted what they were promised?
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