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Old 02-05-2013, 18:10   #51
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Thanks for the appreciation, it means a lot. We all spent our first careers in government employ so we know how frustrating the rest of your time can be, so whatever we can do to reduce it now, we will.

As far as custom kitting one-offs, we can and do with some limitations. Basically we only do it for le and mil folks, it has to be stuff we have on our shelves, and its got to fit in our standard poly pack or a pouch we have in house. Basically, we can bundle stuff we have and give you better pricing. For orders of 10+ kits we can start looking to source products we don't normally carry, so long as it comes from somebody we already work with. Hope this helps.

//Jake




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Old 02-05-2013, 18:20   #52
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Thanks for the appreciation, it means a lot. We all spent our first careers in government employ so we know how frustrating the rest of your time can be, so whatever we can do to reduce it now, we will.

As far as custom kitting one-offs, we can and do with some limitations. Basically we only do it for le and mil folks, it has to be stuff we have on our shelves, and its got to fit in our standard poly pack or a pouch we have in house. Basically, we can bundle stuff we have and give you better pricing. For orders of 10+ kits we can start looking to source products we don't normally carry, so long as it comes from somebody we already work with. Hope this helps.

//Jake




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Gotcha. I probably will be in contact with you about this within the next day or two. That is an awesome service!
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:20   #53
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This is one of the downsides of the manufacturer eliminating the less expensive kit in that it had no items that would likely be affected by deformation. I don't think I would personally be too excited about the idea of a pair of trauma shears stacked between me and the stopped round.

//Jake

Here's my last post monopolizing the thread. I just got off the phone with the owner of Phokus and we're going to be removing the trauma shears based on this concern and we're swapping out the ACE bandage for a SWAT-T. Price stays the same.

//Jake
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:37   #54
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Lots of variables. Depends on location and if there's an entrance and exit or just entrance wound. I carry 2x QC combat gauze on my person and 5x more between plate carrier and med bag. IMHO a tourn is more important than QC.


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FYI, I have seen (elsewhere) EMT's state that when they see a tourniquet, that signifies--to the surgeon--cut here--as in cut off for amputation!
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:14   #55
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FYI, I have seen (elsewhere) EMT's state that when they see a tourniquet, that signifies--to the surgeon--cut here--as in cut off for amputation!
That's old school thinking.... That's what I was taught in my EMT class way back in the mid 90's.

Unfortunately one of the things we've learned with all the combat injuries overseas is that tourniquets can be applied and provide lifesaving assistance and not require removal of the limb.... Now that certainly doesn't go for every case, but it's not nearly as much of a definite thing as it used to be.

Like CJ said earlier, you can use a triangular bandage in a pinch, but products such as the CAT tourniquet work more efficiently. They spread the pressure over a greater surface area and the ratcheting tension device makes loosening prior to advanced aid less of a problem.

Unfortunately they are a must have for cops these days.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:49   #56
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FYI, I have seen (elsewhere) EMT's state that when they see a tourniquet, that signifies--to the surgeon--cut here--as in cut off for amputation!
New standard as taught in my TC3 class is they can be applied for up to two hours without permanent damage. Lots of good trauma information has come out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and this is one of them. They teach us in the military now, that if you're still under fire, and someone's bleeding profusely, the standard immediate action is to put a tourniquet on them and get them out of the line of fire until things die down enough to do a more thorough assessment and decide on more appropriate treatment.
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:01   #57
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I just realized this is coptalk and not the lounge, but as a civvie i put a Galls Gunshot kit in each vehicle when i started carrying concealed. They were only about 50 bucks at the time but just seemed to make a lot of sense. Feel a lot better having it at the range too, accidents happen. Or carelessness, but it happens. Pouch can fit in a cargo pocket.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:15   #58
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I just realized this is coptalk and not the lounge, but as a civvie i put a Galls Gunshot kit in each vehicle when i started carrying concealed. They were only about 50 bucks at the time but just seemed to make a lot of sense. Feel a lot better having it at the range too, accidents happen. Or carelessness, but it happens. Pouch can fit in a cargo pocket.
That is a good idea and you're welcome in coptalk.

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Old 02-06-2013, 12:01   #59
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New standard as taught in my TC3 class is they can be applied for up to two hours without permanent damage. Lots of good trauma information has come out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and this is one of them. They teach us in the military now, that if you're still under fire, and someone's bleeding profusely, the standard immediate action is to put a tourniquet on them and get them out of the line of fire until things die down enough to do a more thorough assessment and decide on more appropriate treatment.
If a pressure dressing doesn't solve it slap a TQ on it. PERIOD. That is the current AHA guidelines for civvy and the current guidelines for the .mil

It DOES NOT MEAN they will be amputated, TQ's a great stuff don't freak out. However, only use the amount of pressure on the windlass to stop the bright spurting stuff, if it leaks just a bit but a pressure dressing over the leaky part.

If your getting a flat setup for use in your carrier put it in the back slot and hope you get shot facing the threat.

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It's that time of year apparently, I couldn't find the old thread that we had going a yearish ago. Let’s discuss building your own first aid kit. This is just a quick post I am certainly open to lots of discussion and will help you build a kit if you need help. If you want your PD to purchase equipment and or training take a look at:
http://www.jems.com/article/training...after-giffords

This is also true of Aurora, guys were just throwing casualties into their vehicles and running them to the hospital. Community EMS cannot and will not deploy into a hot zone, they won't make entry in most areas until it's declared safe. Many times that's a half hour or more. I'm not knocking EMS, I are one

At a minimum you guys should go online to Amazon.com and buy some Celox trauma gauze:

Amazon.com: CELOX Gauze Roll, 5-Foot by 3-Inch: Home Improvement $32.50 and it fits in your front pocket. Get this stuff and let it ride with you in your pocket every day, gets pretty flat and you’ll forget it’s there.

Celox V12090 - GR Gauze Roll, 10' L x 3" W: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific This is the .mil stuff same as the above just twice as long.

If you want one that’s already built checkout tacmedsolutions.com they offer an LE discount and have decent kits for great prices. I prefer different Celox Combat gauze to quickclot and Bolin chest seals to Halo seals but this is for the easybutton approach.

https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/store/Products_Detail.php?ProductID=48[/COLOR]

The breakdown of the equipment is as follows if you want to buy the best and build your own kit:

Naso/Oralpharangyl of most common size [IF TRAINED]
One each of most common size, while typically not to be done during an active shooter if there is a lull or the situation is under control it would allow any EMT to perform lifesaving airway management to ensure that the patient would survive long enough for ALS to arrive. It is highly unlikely that any medic should or would be able to carry their medical equipment with them, but highly likely that after the threat is secure to be a significant amount of time before EMS is allowed into the building due to the need to ensure that it is secure.

Bolin Chest seal x2 (one for entry and one for exit)
http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/it...--------------
This has a built in valve that allows for placement to be incredibly quick, it also seals much easier than the traditional occlusive dressing and tape solution.



Combat Application Tourniquet
http://www.combattourniquet.com/
This can be applied one handed by the victim to an extremity, death by fluid loss from an extremity is a serious issue that can be easily solved by the victim while the responding officers continue towards the threat. Simple and very fast.
http://www.narescue.com/C-A-T_-_Comb...7051138B3.html
DO NOT BUY THESE ON EBAY, FAKES ABOUND!

Israeli Combat Dressing 6” and 12” abdominal
[URL="http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/05131"]http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/05131
[URL="http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/05150"]http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/05150
With this device an officer can utilize one hand to apply either dressing, it provides both a gauze padding/absorbent layer as well as compression from what is basically an ace bandage. However this device is attached in such a way to allow tensioning with one hand and the tension bar also keeps it from becoming a tourniquet accidentally.


Another option here is the O.L.A.E.S Bandage:
http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/it...--------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbKDNuLB54A


Celox Trauma Gauze
http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/it...--------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJRs-ZNX6tA
This gauze is a hemostatic agent that is not caustic or thermally invasive in anyway. This is different than the ‘quick-clot’ branded gauze in that it is entirely inert having no active ingredients it will not burn the officer. It is also not a powdered formula that requires intensive debreeding treatments once at the ER. This non chemical formula can also be absorbed by the body, it is made of shell fish shells but is nontoxic and non-allergenic. In the included video you will see that you can stuff the gauze into a wound and then it can be removed at the ER simply by pulling out the gauze. It will clot off an arterial bleed that if not stopped will lead to officer death very quickly, within 30sec of applying the gauze and some pressure it will clot off even a femoral bleed.

4 pairs of gloves

Pocket CPR mask

2” Durapore Tape


This would all fit into something like this:
Amazon.com: EMT Fanny Pack Royal (case only) - Style 911-82612: Health & Personal Care
While it may not be the ‘coolest’ looking pouch it will allow the officer to secure it to the rear of his body like a fanny pack while not interfering with any of the duty gear. It will allow rapidly dropping the pack as needed. It is not tactically looking in nature and shouldn’t intimidate anyone.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:16   #60
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I'd be less concerned about the integrity of the kit and more about the knife stuck in my chest.
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I think you miss the point a bit. What happens when you have the kit between your vest and the threat, the threat hits and penetrates the kit, damaging the contents, but the vest stops that round. Somehow in there there's also a hit to the area your vest doesn't cover, and now you have a kit that's in pieces that probably isn't going to work well to fix you up.
Nah, he gets it.

It's a risk/benefit debate. If the only place to put it is floating inside the shirt, you risk having it damaged, but the half intact kit you have has more survival value than the intact one you never bought.
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Old 03-15-2013, 14:44   #61
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Just bringing this back up to the top. I had taken a great interest in this after Morris started the thread. I was all set to order a basic officer kit from Jake at Officer Survival Initiative http://www.officersurvival.org/colle...patrol-aid-kit

but I wanted something a bit less bulky, or something that the folks I work with would actually carry. As many of us know, if it isn't "comfortable" or "convenient", many of our brothers and sisters won't even bother I had numerous discussions with Jake about this. First off, he was great to deal with. Excellent customer service. After a short while, Jake came up with the kit pictured below. In his opinion, it contains the absolute minimum without being too bulky. I work in a small town that's surrounded by rural farmlands...help isn't too far away, but we all know that when the SHTF, EMS won't enter a perimeter unless it's secure. Jake came up with a kit that fits in a pouch and will mount much like a BUG - on the vest, with either Velcro or through the vest straps.

Today I received the kit (two days after ordering it). I plan to take it work, show it to the management and other officers, and start carrying it ASAP. The URL for the kit is below:

http://www.officersurvival.org/colle...-mount-aid-kit

I'm not affiliated with Jake or Officer Survival Initiative but I'm absolutely satisfied with the materials they provided, the service and flexibility before the sale and the after-sales follow-up. These folks are truly dedicated and care about US. Two thumbs up in my book. Thanks Jake!




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Old 03-15-2013, 16:47   #62
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Just bringing this back up to the top. I had taken a great interest in this after Morris started the thread....
Thank you very much for the kind words! It was a pleasure working with you as well and I look forward to your feedback after you slap it on and pack it around a bit.

This is a good example, by the way, of how innovation happens in this field. Lndshark got in touch with me about a trauma kit and what he thought would be a good way to get it the on streets. We spent a lot of time talking over the past month or so and what you see here is the result of that discussion, combining his knowledge with ours. We're always open to good ideas and building what you guys need at a reasonable price.

Thanks again lndshark!

//Jake

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Old 03-15-2013, 16:49   #63
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Just bringing this back up to the top. I had taken a great interest in this after Morris started the thread. I was all set to order a basic officer kit from Jake at Officer Survival Initiative http://www.officersurvival.org/colle...patrol-aid-kit

but I wanted something a bit less bulky, or something that the folks I work with would actually carry. As many of us know, if it isn't "comfortable" or "convenient", many of our brothers and sisters won't even bother I had numerous discussions with Jake about this. First off, he was great to deal with. Excellent customer service. After a short while, Jake came up with the kit pictured below. In his opinion, it contains the absolute minimum without being too bulky. I work in a small town that's surrounded by rural farmlands...help isn't too far away, but we all know that when the SHTF, EMS won't enter a perimeter unless it's secure. Jake came up with a kit that fits in a pouch and will mount much like a BUG - on the vest, with either Velcro or through the vest straps.

Today I received the kit (two days after ordering it). I plan to take it work, show it to the management and other officers, and start carrying it ASAP. The URL for the kit is below:

http://www.officersurvival.org/colle...-mount-aid-kit

I'm not affiliated with Jake or Officer Survival Initiative but I'm absolutely satisfied with the materials they provided, the service and flexibility before the sale and the after-sales follow-up. These folks are truly dedicated and care about US. Two thumbs up in my book. Thanks Jake!




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I like it. I am going to order one as well and see if I can convince our agency to buy it. Could you take a pic of the side profile so I can see how thick it is? What are the overall dimensions? Height, width, thickness? Even though Canada is a metric country I understand inches.
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Old 03-15-2013, 16:56   #64
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Hey BC-

It's 5" x 6" and around 3/4" deep packed. The depth comes mostly from the SWAT-T. I'll see if we can get a profile shot if Lndshark doesn't have one.

//Jake
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Old 03-15-2013, 17:33   #65
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Hey BC-

It's 5" x 6" and around 3/4" deep packed. The depth comes mostly from the SWAT-T. I'll see if we can get a profile shot if Lndshark doesn't have one.

//Jake
Thanks for the quick answer. I just sent you an e-mail as well.
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Old 03-15-2013, 21:19   #66
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Dang Jake! That's slick. I may have to pick one up for T&E.

Reminds me, I have my Phokus review I need to finish and send off to you.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:20   #67
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@bccop: here you go, Sir. Hope these are what you're looking for.

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If anyone wants more pics, just let me know. For now, it's sleepy time
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:32   #68
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Ooops. Apparently my wholly unscientific estimate of depth was a bit off. Thanks Lndshark.

//Jake
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:28   #69
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I have quikclot in all kits in all vehicles as well as the kit in my range bag.

Having your trauma kit at home makes just as much sense has leaving your weapon at home when you need it.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:18   #70
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I was all set to order a basic officer kit from Jake at Officer Survival Initiative http://www.officersurvival.org/colle...patrol-aid-kit
Nice kit. Only thing I'd add would be a mouth barrier for CPR.
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Old 03-17-2013, 13:33   #71
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Morris- I've got one set aside just for you when the temptation becomes too much. Shoot me a PM or an email and I'll set you up with agency pricing too. That goes for all the LEO's on CT. Just PM me with your agency and I'll give you the discount code to use online.

Dudel- This one would fit perfectly.

//Jake
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Old 03-17-2013, 17:26   #72
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Morris- I've got one set aside just for you when the temptation becomes too much. Shoot me a PM or an email and I'll set you up with agency pricing too. That goes for all the LEO's on CT. Just PM me with your agency and I'll give you the discount code to use online.

Dudel- This one would fit perfectly.

//Jake
I wish I had looked around your website before I ordered 2 Concealed Armor Mount Aid Kits. I like the Kydex CAT Tourniquet Holster (that fits on a Safariland Leg Drop Holster or a duty belt). I have dropped 20 pounds since New Year and plan on losing another 20. Pretty soon I'm going to run out of room on my duty belt.

I will have to make another order sooner rather than later.
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Old 03-17-2013, 17:35   #73
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If you'd like to add it, go for it. Well ship it as one order. No extra shipping charge. Good job on the loss!

//Jake


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Old 03-17-2013, 22:25   #74
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If you'd like to add it, go for it. Well ship it as one order. No extra shipping charge. Good job on the loss!

//Jake


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Would have been better not to have gained 40 pounds in the first place but thanks! Halfway there.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:42   #75
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Nice kit. Only thing I'd add would be a mouth barrier for CPR.
Don't bother, the best thing to do if you don't have a bvm is just compressions anyway.
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