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Old 02-05-2013, 17:05   #41
Morris
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No, I saw your point. I just added a flavor of humor.

That being said, the Phokus may not be suitable for SBA where deformation is a possibility. However, I recognize that this type of kit may help those who have limited kit space on their belt or don't have the pockets available for some gloves, combat gauze and a CAT or SWAT-T yes still want something reasonably handy. Ideally, it may be best under plates where the issue of deformation is reasonably moot.

Which reminds me, I need to call Jake and order the small kit for T&E with my SBA. I can certainly post my thoughts.
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:10   #42
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No, I saw your point. I just added a flavor of humor.

That being said, the Phokus may not be suitable for SBA where deformation is a possibility. However, I recognize that this type of kit may help those who have limited kit space on their belt or don't have the pockets available for some gloves, combat gauze and a CAT or SWAT-T yes still want something reasonably handy. Ideally, it may be best under plates where the issue of deformation is reasonably moot.

Which reminds me, I need to call Jake and order the small kit for T&E with my SBA. I can certainly post my thoughts.
Sorry; my mind wasn't in "humor" mode on that one, lol. I'm actually now leaning more towards a small kit I can put on my gun belt, as long as it's not too bulky. I don't carry a lot on that belt (weapon, mags, cuffs, radio, and about to put a Surefire G2 on it), and the times I can really see myself needing that would arise from an armed escort off the institution.
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:16   #43
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There are some nice kits out there. NAR created some compact and flat kits that are nice. The luxury of having tactical pajamas is pocket sand the ability to carry kit items in them (of course, the flip side is filling them too much to the point you look like a bumpy mess).
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:37   #44
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There are some nice kits out there. NAR created some compact and flat kits that are nice. The luxury of having tactical pajamas is pocket sand the ability to carry kit items in them (of course, the flip side is filling them too much to the point you look like a bumpy mess).
Yeah; I wear 5.11 Taclites most of the time. They have cargo pockets, but they're not all that large. Plus, I'd rather have it on my belt, where I always have it when I have a weapon at work, rather than something I can forget to throw in my pocket. Plus, my cargo pockets are already fairly full with my day to day stuff (planner (has our offense codes in it), notebook, gloves, trash bags for shaking down, etc).
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:08   #45
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What happens when you have the kit between your vest and the threat, the threat hits and penetrates the kit, damaging the contents, but the vest stops that round. Somehow in there there's also a hit to the area your vest doesn't cover, and now you have a kit that's in pieces that probably isn't going to work well to fix you up.
I honestly never thought of the kit being used on ME, but rather having it to use on someone else who was wounded. Unless we (fellow officers) all have one and carry it in the same exact place, how would my coworkers know where to look for it? Or even know that I have one?

Interested in how you guys do it that already have these.
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:29   #46
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I honestly never thought of the kit being used on ME, but rather having it to use on someone else who was wounded. Unless we (fellow officers) all have one and carry it in the same exact place, how would my coworkers know where to look for it? Or even know that I have one?

Interested in how you guys do it that already have these.
I guess I kinda default back to how the military does it, as that's where most of my medical training has come from: Your IFAK is for YOU; you treat casualties with THEIR IFAK and an aid bag. That's what I think of with this: if I'm hurt, this is something I can use to do self-aid and get back in the fight, or at least keep myself from bleeding out until I can get help. With my position, I can't see us being sent to assist on a mass shooting or something. For a mass-casualty scenario inside the fence, we have dedicated mass-casualty aid kits staged at various places around the joint.
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:32   #47
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No, I saw your point. I just added a flavor of humor.

That being said, the Phokus may not be suitable for SBA where deformation is a possibility. However, I recognize that this type of kit may help those who have limited kit space on their belt or don't have the pockets available for some gloves, combat gauze and a CAT or SWAT-T yes still want something reasonably handy. Ideally, it may be best under plates where the issue of deformation is reasonably moot.

Which reminds me, I need to call Jake and order the small kit for T&E with my SBA. I can certainly post my thoughts.
This is one of the downsides of the manufacturer eliminating the less expensive kit in that it had no items that would likely be affected by deformation. I don't think I would personally be too excited about the idea of a pair of trauma shears stacked between me and the stopped round.

//Jake
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:35   #48
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I have two dedicated pockets on the jumpsuit. The guys on my squad know which pockets.

I actually had my department replace some combat gauze I whipped out and used on a GSW victim. Had to use it as the .223 rounds did a number on his leg and the scene was still fluid and aid was staging for the all clear. That was when I found religion about kits and always keeping stuff on me.
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:37   #49
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Yeah; I wear 5.11 Taclites most of the time. They have cargo pockets, but they're not all that large. Plus, I'd rather have it on my belt, where I always have it when I have a weapon at work, rather than something I can forget to throw in my pocket. Plus, my cargo pockets are already fairly full with my day to day stuff (planner (has our offense codes in it), notebook, gloves, trash bags for shaking down, etc).
The great challenge in the gun belt carried kit is real estate. We've found it's really tough to put enough stuff in it to be effective (i.e. not wasting your money), but keeping it small enough that it doesn't eat what little space most guys have on their belts. This is one of the reasons I'm heartened to see more and more external carriers become the norm. Most of our trauma gear is flat-packed. Great for a vest mounted IFAK or cargo pocket. Lame for belt mount.

Unfortunately, a lot of our less scrupulous competition doesn't really care if it works or not, living by the principle of "I don't care what you buy, as long as you buy it from me". We've built our business instead on the concept of "If we wouldn't carry it, we won't sell it". I'm not saying we're the only makers/dealers of decent gear, just be careful who you shop from.

Finally, I'd be happy to try to put something together for any of you guys that meets your needs. Just PM me or email me at [email]jake@officersurvival.org[/email].

//Jake
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:46   #50
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The great challenge in the gun belt carried kit is real estate. We've found it's really tough to put enough stuff in it to be effective (i.e. not wasting your money), but keeping it small enough that it doesn't eat what little space most guys have on their belts. This is one of the reasons I'm heartened to see more and more external carriers become the norm. Most of our trauma gear is flat-packed. Great for a vest mounted IFAK or cargo pocket. Lame for belt mount.

Unfortunately, a lot of our less scrupulous competition doesn't really care if it works or not, living by the principle of "I don't care what you buy, as long as you buy it from me". We've built our business instead on the concept of "If we wouldn't carry it, we won't sell it". I'm not saying we're the only makers/dealers of decent gear, just be careful who you shop from.

Finally, I'd be happy to try to put something together for any of you guys that meets your needs. Just PM me or email me at jake@officersurvival.org.

//Jake
As to that last line, do I understand you correctly that you would be willing to do one-of custom kits for individuals?

FYI, I just wanted to throw out there that I GREATLY appreciate the time and individual responses you're throwing out there. That's awesome customer service right there.
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Old 02-05-2013, 19:10   #51
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Thanks for the appreciation, it means a lot. We all spent our first careers in government employ so we know how frustrating the rest of your time can be, so whatever we can do to reduce it now, we will.

As far as custom kitting one-offs, we can and do with some limitations. Basically we only do it for le and mil folks, it has to be stuff we have on our shelves, and its got to fit in our standard poly pack or a pouch we have in house. Basically, we can bundle stuff we have and give you better pricing. For orders of 10+ kits we can start looking to source products we don't normally carry, so long as it comes from somebody we already work with. Hope this helps.

//Jake




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Old 02-05-2013, 19:20   #52
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Thanks for the appreciation, it means a lot. We all spent our first careers in government employ so we know how frustrating the rest of your time can be, so whatever we can do to reduce it now, we will.

As far as custom kitting one-offs, we can and do with some limitations. Basically we only do it for le and mil folks, it has to be stuff we have on our shelves, and its got to fit in our standard poly pack or a pouch we have in house. Basically, we can bundle stuff we have and give you better pricing. For orders of 10+ kits we can start looking to source products we don't normally carry, so long as it comes from somebody we already work with. Hope this helps.

//Jake




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Gotcha. I probably will be in contact with you about this within the next day or two. That is an awesome service!
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Old 02-05-2013, 19:20   #53
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This is one of the downsides of the manufacturer eliminating the less expensive kit in that it had no items that would likely be affected by deformation. I don't think I would personally be too excited about the idea of a pair of trauma shears stacked between me and the stopped round.

//Jake

Here's my last post monopolizing the thread. I just got off the phone with the owner of Phokus and we're going to be removing the trauma shears based on this concern and we're swapping out the ACE bandage for a SWAT-T. Price stays the same.

//Jake
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:37   #54
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Lots of variables. Depends on location and if there's an entrance and exit or just entrance wound. I carry 2x QC combat gauze on my person and 5x more between plate carrier and med bag. IMHO a tourn is more important than QC.


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FYI, I have seen (elsewhere) EMT's state that when they see a tourniquet, that signifies--to the surgeon--cut here--as in cut off for amputation!
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:14   #55
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FYI, I have seen (elsewhere) EMT's state that when they see a tourniquet, that signifies--to the surgeon--cut here--as in cut off for amputation!
That's old school thinking.... That's what I was taught in my EMT class way back in the mid 90's.

Unfortunately one of the things we've learned with all the combat injuries overseas is that tourniquets can be applied and provide lifesaving assistance and not require removal of the limb.... Now that certainly doesn't go for every case, but it's not nearly as much of a definite thing as it used to be.

Like CJ said earlier, you can use a triangular bandage in a pinch, but products such as the CAT tourniquet work more efficiently. They spread the pressure over a greater surface area and the ratcheting tension device makes loosening prior to advanced aid less of a problem.

Unfortunately they are a must have for cops these days.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:49   #56
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FYI, I have seen (elsewhere) EMT's state that when they see a tourniquet, that signifies--to the surgeon--cut here--as in cut off for amputation!
New standard as taught in my TC3 class is they can be applied for up to two hours without permanent damage. Lots of good trauma information has come out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and this is one of them. They teach us in the military now, that if you're still under fire, and someone's bleeding profusely, the standard immediate action is to put a tourniquet on them and get them out of the line of fire until things die down enough to do a more thorough assessment and decide on more appropriate treatment.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:01   #57
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I just realized this is coptalk and not the lounge, but as a civvie i put a Galls Gunshot kit in each vehicle when i started carrying concealed. They were only about 50 bucks at the time but just seemed to make a lot of sense. Feel a lot better having it at the range too, accidents happen. Or carelessness, but it happens. Pouch can fit in a cargo pocket.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:15   #58
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I just realized this is coptalk and not the lounge, but as a civvie i put a Galls Gunshot kit in each vehicle when i started carrying concealed. They were only about 50 bucks at the time but just seemed to make a lot of sense. Feel a lot better having it at the range too, accidents happen. Or carelessness, but it happens. Pouch can fit in a cargo pocket.
That is a good idea and you're welcome in coptalk.

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Old 02-06-2013, 13:01   #59
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New standard as taught in my TC3 class is they can be applied for up to two hours without permanent damage. Lots of good trauma information has come out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and this is one of them. They teach us in the military now, that if you're still under fire, and someone's bleeding profusely, the standard immediate action is to put a tourniquet on them and get them out of the line of fire until things die down enough to do a more thorough assessment and decide on more appropriate treatment.
If a pressure dressing doesn't solve it slap a TQ on it. PERIOD. That is the current AHA guidelines for civvy and the current guidelines for the .mil

It DOES NOT MEAN they will be amputated, TQ's a great stuff don't freak out. However, only use the amount of pressure on the windlass to stop the bright spurting stuff, if it leaks just a bit but a pressure dressing over the leaky part.

If your getting a flat setup for use in your carrier put it in the back slot and hope you get shot facing the threat.

Quote:
It's that time of year apparently, I couldn't find the old thread that we had going a yearish ago. Let’s discuss building your own first aid kit. This is just a quick post I am certainly open to lots of discussion and will help you build a kit if you need help. If you want your PD to purchase equipment and or training take a look at:
http://www.jems.com/article/training...after-giffords

This is also true of Aurora, guys were just throwing casualties into their vehicles and running them to the hospital. Community EMS cannot and will not deploy into a hot zone, they won't make entry in most areas until it's declared safe. Many times that's a half hour or more. I'm not knocking EMS, I are one

At a minimum you guys should go online to Amazon.com and buy some Celox trauma gauze:

Amazon.com: CELOX Gauze Roll, 5-Foot by 3-Inch: Home Improvement $32.50 and it fits in your front pocket. Get this stuff and let it ride with you in your pocket every day, gets pretty flat and you’ll forget it’s there.

Celox V12090 - GR Gauze Roll, 10' L x 3" W: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific This is the .mil stuff same as the above just twice as long.

If you want one that’s already built checkout tacmedsolutions.com they offer an LE discount and have decent kits for great prices. I prefer different Celox Combat gauze to quickclot and Bolin chest seals to Halo seals but this is for the easybutton approach.

https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/store/Products_Detail.php?ProductID=48[/COLOR]

The breakdown of the equipment is as follows if you want to buy the best and build your own kit:

Naso/Oralpharangyl of most common size [IF TRAINED]
One each of most common size, while typically not to be done during an active shooter if there is a lull or the situation is under control it would allow any EMT to perform lifesaving airway management to ensure that the patient would survive long enough for ALS to arrive. It is highly unlikely that any medic should or would be able to carry their medical equipment with them, but highly likely that after the threat is secure to be a significant amount of time before EMS is allowed into the building due to the need to ensure that it is secure.

Bolin Chest seal x2 (one for entry and one for exit)
http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/it...--------------
This has a built in valve that allows for placement to be incredibly quick, it also seals much easier than the traditional occlusive dressing and tape solution.



Combat Application Tourniquet
http://www.combattourniquet.com/
This can be applied one handed by the victim to an extremity, death by fluid loss from an extremity is a serious issue that can be easily solved by the victim while the responding officers continue towards the threat. Simple and very fast.
http://www.narescue.com/C-A-T_-_Comb...7051138B3.html
DO NOT BUY THESE ON EBAY, FAKES ABOUND!

Israeli Combat Dressing 6” and 12” abdominal
[URL="http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/05131"]http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/05131
[URL="http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/05150"]http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/05150
With this device an officer can utilize one hand to apply either dressing, it provides both a gauze padding/absorbent layer as well as compression from what is basically an ace bandage. However this device is attached in such a way to allow tensioning with one hand and the tension bar also keeps it from becoming a tourniquet accidentally.


Another option here is the O.L.A.E.S Bandage:
http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/it...--------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbKDNuLB54A


Celox Trauma Gauze
http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/it...--------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJRs-ZNX6tA
This gauze is a hemostatic agent that is not caustic or thermally invasive in anyway. This is different than the ‘quick-clot’ branded gauze in that it is entirely inert having no active ingredients it will not burn the officer. It is also not a powdered formula that requires intensive debreeding treatments once at the ER. This non chemical formula can also be absorbed by the body, it is made of shell fish shells but is nontoxic and non-allergenic. In the included video you will see that you can stuff the gauze into a wound and then it can be removed at the ER simply by pulling out the gauze. It will clot off an arterial bleed that if not stopped will lead to officer death very quickly, within 30sec of applying the gauze and some pressure it will clot off even a femoral bleed.

4 pairs of gloves

Pocket CPR mask

2” Durapore Tape


This would all fit into something like this:
Amazon.com: EMT Fanny Pack Royal (case only) - Style 911-82612: Health & Personal Care
While it may not be the ‘coolest’ looking pouch it will allow the officer to secure it to the rear of his body like a fanny pack while not interfering with any of the duty gear. It will allow rapidly dropping the pack as needed. It is not tactically looking in nature and shouldn’t intimidate anyone.
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:16   #60
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I'd be less concerned about the integrity of the kit and more about the knife stuck in my chest.
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I think you miss the point a bit. What happens when you have the kit between your vest and the threat, the threat hits and penetrates the kit, damaging the contents, but the vest stops that round. Somehow in there there's also a hit to the area your vest doesn't cover, and now you have a kit that's in pieces that probably isn't going to work well to fix you up.
Nah, he gets it.

It's a risk/benefit debate. If the only place to put it is floating inside the shirt, you risk having it damaged, but the half intact kit you have has more survival value than the intact one you never bought.
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